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  1. #241
    It seems kinda op to let disc double dip on the 4pc with pi and dh :0

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    I am speachless.. Again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    First posted edit. Thanks for buffing Disc further ;D

    edit:
    Oh I see...

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Docta View Post
    It seems kinda op to let disc double dip on the 4pc with pi and dh :0
    But atleast it gave us a good laugh I'm sure Bliz just didn't think about this!

  4. #244
    Are they even aware that PI has a 2min CD whilst DH for non-disc will have a 3min CD? Pretty sure that's imbalanced for the 2piece set...
    Also disc gets a further mana regen tool from the 4piece whilst holy's is a mere HPM increase (provided the raid is stacked up long enough, which is highly situational).

    Disc priests have been fine on mana since 333 gear and dropping spirit substantially since mid/late T11...are they really buffing disc's mana efficiency so much and neglecting holy? Do they have the faintest clue what they're doing?

    Also I see zero value whatsoever in the 4piece change for holy. Serenity's crit buff would last, what, an extra 1 second and last I checked, they were pretty fine with holy's ability to push HPS in aoe situations. Makes no sense to buff sanctuary with the 4piece...

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Docta View Post
    It seems kinda op to let disc double dip on the 4pc with pi and dh :0
    Methinks you mean the 2pc... Whereas it seems absolutely fine for non disc to double dip on the 4pc as they can get the crit shields too

  6. #246
    Disc 4 piece might be interesting if it applies to all shields. If you have to proc rapture specifically off the "crit" shield to get the extra mana back, it's going to be pretty worthless. I think the holy 4 piece after the change is actually worse than it was originally since serenity doesn't do anything and you don't really want to keep sanc down 100% of the time anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    EDIT: Just noticed, why does disc get to benefit from the PI AND DH mana saving buff? As well as getting rapture procs. o.O
    DH is an 8s channel and (as it's worded) the bonus only lasts 10s for disc, so at best you're looking at 2 casts with the buff every 8m. I think this is trivial enough to not really worry about. I suppose you could cancel DH early and use the full 10s mana reduction if you really wanted to, but buffed DH should actually be worth channeling in full even for disc (more hps than pws/poh spam).

    Quote Originally Posted by NoHealsForYou View Post
    Are they even aware that PI has a 2min CD whilst DH for non-disc will have a 3min CD? Pretty sure that's imbalanced for the 2piece set...
    PI has a 2m cd and gives a 10s buff, DH (for holy) has a 3m cd and gives essentially a 15s buff (23s - 8s channel). This is balanced.

  7. #247
    Question is Wuga, do you always need/want the manacost reduction after a Divine Hymn as Holy? I think in many cases nopes...:/ There would be better times for it.

    Why be so stubborn and try to keep all bonus sets alike/similar...

  8. #248
    Depends on the length of the fight. Odds are you can fit more 2min cd into a typical fight than those on a 3min cd..so nope, not balanced at all.

    9min fight, starting from 30s cast:
    Disc: 30, 2.30, 4.30, 6.30, 8.30
    Holy: 30, 3.30. 6.30....

    Edit: I should also note that I really hate the idea of having my T13 'regen' bonus tied in to when I need to use raid cooldowns. I want to be able to go mana neutral when I choose to, not have to hold back on it because I need DH at a certain point in the fight - especially when this point might require delaying the cast and further reducing the number of times I can use it. All in all, it really makes no sense.

    Now, if they tied it into Hymn of hope...that would make a LOT of sense.
    Hymn of hope now provides the priest with x% of spirit based regen for yseconds in addition to its current effect.

    Would also balance holy against the double dipping rapture from disc 4piece since holy generally has higher spirit based regen.
    Last edited by NoHealsForYou; 2011-09-29 at 11:18 PM.

  9. #249
    They should remove the double rapture portion. Disc probably has the best mana regen of any healer, they don't need 2 mana saving things on the 2piece, and another mana gaining buff on the 4pc.

    They need to drop the holy word idea from the 4pc altogether and switch it to something completely different. Holy word spells are extremely situational, and increasing the duration of them by 1-2 seconds isn't going to change that.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by NoHealsForYou View Post
    Depends on the length of the fight. Odds are you can fit more 2min cd into a typical fight than those on a 3min cd..so nope, not balanced at all.

    9min fight, starting from 30s cast:
    Disc: 30, 2.30, 4.30, 6.30, 8.30
    Holy: 30, 3.30. 6.30....

    7min fight
    Disc: 30, 2.30, 4.30. 6.30
    Holy: 30. 3.30, 6.30....
    Yepp, this math I have been thinking about to. And will we really use Hymn every off-CD? No... Ofc not. But PI, sure, you can.

    Also:
    PI=You want manacost reduction and cast faster
    Innervate=You need mana
    Mana Tide=Mana, yes pls
    Divine Hymn=Not necessarily... at all, especially if the Hymn already did the hard work for ya!

    Would make more sense to merge it with Shadowfiend or Hymn of Hope tbh...
    Last edited by nobodysbaby; 2011-09-29 at 11:30 PM.

  11. #251
    I like the Hymn of Hope idea. It should activate after you finish channeling it. The four piece should reduce the CD of Hymn of Hope for Holy only. Or add it to the Heavenly Voice Talent.

  12. #252
    The double dip on the DH 2pc is hardly a concern. Disc 2pc lasts 10sec. DH channels for 8sec, leaving 2secs for casting w. the DH originated 2pc buff. The only potential I see here is Disc cancel casting DH to get 8.X seconds of 2pc to do whatever with, which would, on the surface, seems pretty silly, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a bubblechampion try it.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    The double dip on the DH 2pc is hardly a concern. Disc 2pc lasts 10sec. DH channels for 8sec, leaving 2secs for casting w. the DH originated 2pc buff. The only potential I see here is Disc cancel casting DH to get 8.X seconds of 2pc to do whatever with, which would, on the surface, seems pretty silly, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a bubblechampion try it.
    Are you sure that the buff won't activate when you finish channeling Divine Hymn? I know you get a buff on yourself that shows the duration of Divine Hymn remaining on your channel, and I'm guessing it will activate afterwards.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Question is Wuga, do you always need/want the manacost reduction after a Divine Hymn as Holy? I think in many cases nopes...:/ There would be better times for it.
    This is true, but at the same time 40% mana reduction from PI + 2p is complete overkill for disc too (you can hardly spend mana this fast outside of shield spam) so that's not really ideal either. If you're instead casting it on a dps then you have the same problem where the mana reduction buff is likely not very timely.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoHealsForYou View Post
    Depends on the length of the fight. Odds are you can fit more 2min cd into a typical fight than those on a 3min cd..so nope, not balanced at all.

    9min fight, starting from 30s cast:
    Disc: 30, 2.30, 4.30, 6.30, 8.30
    Holy: 30, 3.30. 6.30....
    You are just cherrypicking fight durations to make your point... in the example you give, you do get higher uptime in disc (9%) than in holy (8%). However, if the fight is either 8 or 10 minutes, you get higher uptime in holy. On average they are the same. That said, tying it into something like fiend/HoH does sound like a better idea (and is more consistent with the bonuses for druid/shaman).

    Quote Originally Posted by Afflictid View Post
    Are you sure that the buff won't activate when you finish channeling Divine Hymn? I know you get a buff on yourself that shows the duration of Divine Hymn remaining on your channel, and I'm guessing it will activate afterwards.
    This seems very unlikely but if that is how it works, it generally works out better for holy than disc. You'll get an extra 8s of uptime every 3m in holy and an extra 8-10s of uptime every 8m in disc. Except for very short fights, this is a bigger benefit for holy.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Afflictid View Post
    Are you sure that the buff won't activate when you finish channeling Divine Hymn? I know you get a buff on yourself that shows the duration of Divine Hymn remaining on your channel, and I'm guessing it will activate afterwards.
    Im sure, because the duration is 23sec for the holy version. 23sec-8sec[DH channel]=15sec. 3min CD 15sec. 2min CD 10sec. same ratio. If they're gonna make the 2pc interact differently between holy & disc for the DH activation, they might as well make it not activate when Disc casts DH.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    Im sure, because the duration is 23sec for the holy version. 23sec-8sec[DH channel]=15sec. 3min CD 15sec. 2min CD 10sec. same ratio. If they're gonna make the 2pc interact differently between holy & disc for the DH activation, they might as well make it not activate when Disc casts DH.
    I may have to check when I get home but on the PTR right now in my holy spec it saying that my Divine Hymn has a 2min CD... unless I'm blind or mentally handicapped.. but anyway.. I'm reading it the same that it activates when your ability starts, not finishes.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuga View Post
    You are just cherrypicking fight durations to make your point... in the example you give, you do get higher uptime in disc (9%) than in holy (8%). However, if the fight is either 8 or 10 minutes, you get higher uptime in holy. On average they are the same. That said, tying it into something like fiend/HoH does sound like a better idea (and is more consistent with the bonuses for druid/shaman).
    Honestly, I just pulled a random number out of my head. In more situations than not, however, it favours disc.
    And yes, fiend would also be a useful replacement. In general, we both agree that the current state is bad and poorly considered on blizz's behalf :>

  18. #258
    These Priest set bonus changes aren't doing anything except making the disc ones better.

    1. Disc Priests will double dip on the two piece as they can also cast Divine Hymn.

    2. Why even add the double rapture proc to the 4piece for Disc? They by far have the best regen of any healer as is.... and they get to double dip on the two piece.

    3. The four set needs a complete rework for Holy Priests. Just trash tieing anything to Holy Word spells because they are so situational. You also realize that this four piece will add like.... 2 seconds onto the spells? That is nothing.

    Suggestions:

    2 Piece:
    Tie the two piece into Hymn of Hope instead of our raid cooldown and have Heavenly Voice reduce the cooldown of Hymn of Hope by 1.5/3 minutes.

    4 Piece:
    Scrap the holy word ideas and change it to: Your Hymn of Hope now is guaranteed to restore mana to the Priest every tick.



    ************Double post from original topic, but most people just go to the last page right now, and I think these are good ideas********

    I am open for criticism on them.

    This solves two problems. It gives us a useful set bonus, AND gives us an intel scaling mana regen ability talent, even if it is only like 8-10% mana back.
    Last edited by Afflictid; 2011-09-30 at 12:48 AM.

  19. #259
    Stood in the Fire h3lladvocate's Avatar
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    I don't get all the "double dip" stuff you are saying.

    Divine Hymn - 8 second channel.
    Disc buff duration, 10 seconds.
    10sec - 8sec = 2sec... big deal... 2 seconds every 8 minutes of mana reduction... and that's if they programmed it wrong. Since they have disc/holy differentiation, it probably just won't proc at all for disc.

    If you refering to the double rapture, i think it's balanced. For tank healing, yea, slightly better regen, but I believe the main goal is to try and compensate healers who use their shields on the raid. If the raid takes a 35k hit, that would normally break a shield and proc rapture, and the shield gets 100%, you just lost a rapture proc potentially. By making the procs 100% rapture, the next 100% proc shield that does break made up for the lost rapture proc(really delayed, not lost, but you had to spend double mana).

    I really hope they don't tie the mana cost reduction to fiend or HoH... As it is now, both DH for holy and PI are short CD's, so you get the regen 2-3 times per fight, in small bits, when you likely(not always, but likely) need it. (Remeber holy folks, PI is also used to boost dps on some fights, so we don't always use PI during a mana intensive bit). Since the buff is 10-15 seconds, we get it slightly often, and it doesn't last longer than we generally need it. If it tied to fiend of hymn, the buff duration would be much longer, 30-40 seconds, and several of those second would just be wasted, pretty much always, rather than sometimes. Yes, I think holy needs a better proc spell still that DH, but right now, it is a MUCH better alternative to lightwell...
    <Rustlemania> - 10 Man Raiding - 12/14 H SoO, 13/13 H ToT, 16/16H T14

    Faera - 90 Priest - Non-Disc/Disc PvE

  20. #260
    h3ll, you use PI on cooldown. You won't use DH on cooldown. In fact, you will have very specific times to use DH. Disc's (along with the other healer's) two set is based on a spell that effects mana in another way already.

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