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  1. #261
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    the way I see it, Holy gets just over double the duration on the cheap healing effect (23 second compared to Disc's 10) so while Disc will get the benefit more, Holy will get it for longer per activation, or at least that's the way I read it.

    as for the 4pc....yowza... no way in HELL that's making it live 10% chance for a superbubble... very very nice... and when that superbubble pops... 14% mana return.. EPIC, I can see it being tooled back to say 50% bonus mana
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  2. #262
    For heaven's sake people, 8secs of the 23secs will be spent channeling DH, leaving 15sec as before. The only reason the duration was increased was because it was tied to an 8sec channel instead of a .5sec cast.

  3. #263
    Gallahadd, Holy will only get 15 seconds because 8 of those seconds will be during Divine Hymn.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by h3lladvocate View Post
    I don't get all the "double dip" stuff you are saying.
    What they mean is that Disc will be able to benefit from both of the T13 2P bonuses to the spells (PI & DH) while Holy cannot because it does not get PI. Not that the extra 2s of mana reductions means all that much but apparently its the principle of it (well that and the fact that people will complain about anything).
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Trilic View Post
    What they mean is that Disc will be able to benefit from both of the T13 2P bonuses to the spells (PI & DH) while Holy cannot because it does not get PI. Not that the extra 2s of mana reductions means all that much but apparently its the principle of it (well that and the fact that people will complain about anything).
    It may not even be accessible to Discipline Priests, given the way specs "lock you in" now.
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  6. #266
    Yes. I will complain that Disc gets only 8 seconds less of 25% mana reduction then Holy does when it is already tagged onto a mana reducing spell. I will also complain because disc gets another mana regen bonus in the 4pc (albeit RNG).

  7. #267
    The new set bonus is equally as useless.
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  8. #268
    However, the inclusion of what amounts to, over a large sample, a ~10% increase to rapture returns in addition to the mana savings on PI cast seems oddly overkill to me.

  9. #269
    Stood in the Fire h3lladvocate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afflictid View Post
    h3ll, you use PI on cooldown. You won't use DH on cooldown. In fact, you will have very specific times to use DH. Disc's (along with the other healer's) two set is based on a spell that effects mana in another way already.
    Seeing as DH does about 62.5k HPS... I'd hope you use it on CD, or pretty close... what a waste if not... And just so you know, here's mathy math:

    DH avg tick: 20k - Tested on PTR self buffed, 378ilvl
    Targets: 25 - DH does benefit from haste breakpoints, the first being at 12.5%, a very easily reached breakpoints. Max 20 targets(old max 12) has always been wrong, at least in regards to how haste affects the spell.
    25 targets * 20k = 500k healing over 8 seconds = 62.5k hps, with many targets getting a +10% healing buff, the entire raid likely in 10 man, and prob about half in 25 man, increasing the raids healing by 5-10%, depending on the raid size.

    Yes, there will be specific times to DH, but you'll be using it much more often I bet. And if there is a fight where you don't use it at a set time, pop it, get ridiculous hps, and then free mana. Yes, this is not as perfect as DI, if you havn't noticed, holy doesn't have anything equivalent to DI, MTT, Innervate, etc. Unless you want it back on Lightwell, or like Desperate Prayer(LOL)

    What they mean is that Disc will be able to benefit from both of the T13 2P bonuses to the spells (PI & DH) while Holy cannot because it does not get PI. Not that the extra 2s of mana reductions means all that much but apparently its the principle of it (well that and the fact that people will complain about anything).
    I knew what they were "talking" about, was being sarcastic... But I mean, to complain about a 2 sec MAYBE mana reduction over an 8 min fight... dumb. Likely, blizz will spec lock it so Disc priest don't start channel, cancel, and benefit from it. Or if they can't spec lock it, make it so they need the talent Heavenly Voice. 99% guarantee they will do one of these, look at shadow 2pc, they forced shadowform as a requirement to make healing not take it and get super fiend mana.

    Edit: Even better, on a fight like Baleroc (DH is useless), Pop DH, cancel it, enjoy 23 secs of mana reduction over Disc's 10 secs.
    Last edited by h3lladvocate; 2011-09-30 at 01:26 AM.
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  10. #270
    Stood in the Fire Ascend's Avatar
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    I can see the 4pc getting nerfed, at least for Disc.
    The rapture double proc, despite being 10% chance, is fairly.. Amazing?

  11. #271
    Stood in the Fire h3lladvocate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afflictid View Post
    Yes. I will complain that Disc gets only 8 seconds less of 25% mana reduction then Holy does when it is already tagged onto a mana reducing spell. I will also complain because disc gets another mana regen bonus in the 4pc (albeit RNG).
    Prob should also know then that Disc gets 5% less mana reduction from the 2pc that holy does do to multiplicative stacking of the bonuses. Does that make up for it then?
    <Rustlemania> - 10 Man Raiding - 8/14 H SoO, 11/13 H ToT, 16/16H T14

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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    However, the inclusion of what amounts to, over a large sample, a ~10% increase to rapture returns in addition to the mana savings on PI cast seems oddly overkill to me.
    My take on it is that the rapture only triggers from the double shield breaking, and that's not always feasible. Nor is it feasible if you shield three people at the same time, and #2 takes the crit-shield, but 1 and 3 break first (thus screwing you out of the giant proc because Rapture's on ICD).

    I'm not sure how I feel about the Discipline 4pc, but it's not doom or gloom, jealousy or pity. Back with Holy's, the 20% longer to Sanctuary and assuming they can collectively figure out what's wrong with Serenity and why it doesn't work, should be nice. The 2pc set bonus, well, realistically, Spiritus brought up a potential point of a Discipline Priest potential shield spam genius to use and abuse that by stopcasting, but considering that you're still dropping how much mana on Hymn, I don't even see that as an option either (spending to save?). But this whole thing will probably be moot, considering that Discipline most likely won't even trigger the spec specific buff.

    23, or sorry 15 seconds after Hymn is certainly better than 15 seconds after Lightwell, and I'm not complaining in the least.
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  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Trilic View Post
    Not that the extra 2s of mana reductions means all that much but apparently its the principle of it (well that and the fact that people will complain about anything).
    It's more than an extra 2 seconds. PI for a 10s duration every 2 minutes and they can probably get 1 (2 on long fights) DHs off during the fight to get the 15s buff (23s duration - 8s channeling DH).

    For example, let's take a 6 minute fight:

    Realistically, Holy will be able to use 2 DHs, while Disc will be able to use 2 PIs and a DH.
    For Holy: 2DH x 15s = 30s of 25% reduced mana cost.
    For Disc: (2PI x 10s) + (DH x 15s) = 35s of 25% reduced mana cost.

    A fight that's any longer will have an even greater disparity between the buff uptime, as Disc could get another PI off, while it is doubtful that Holy will be able to use 3 DHs in anything short of a 8-9 minute fight. All the while, disc is also getting extra mana back 10% of the time from super-rapture procs, even though it is said that Disc has the best regen of all the healers, and Holy has the most mana problems. As you can see, this is somewhat skewed...

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Gradywhite View Post
    For example, let's take a 6 minute fight:

    Realistically, Holy will be able to use 2 DHs, while Disc will be able to use 2 PIs and a DH.
    For Holy: 2DH x 15s = 30s of 25% reduced mana cost.
    For Disc: (2PI x 10s) + (DH x 15s) = 35s of 25% reduced mana cost.
    You're misreading the tooltip. Disc, for either PI or DH, will gain a 10sec buff. So in your scenario, Disc will have 22s of Non DH channel time 2pc.

  15. #275
    Definitely seem to favor Disc over Holy. Surprised the 4 piece bonus doesn't work off Chakra somehow, it seems like their enthusiasm for building around Chakra has calmed a bit.

    Definitely best looking T13, though!

  16. #276
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    I knew change would come to at least one of our bonuses. I am glad to see it came to both.

    I actually like the 2-pc change except for one small detail (that at least on this page, I have yet to see mentioned). It all but forces holy priests to take our new talent. Now, this is not to say that any "non-discipline" (yes, /agree Kel, thanks Blizz...) priest wouldn't have taken the talent in the first place (I was already mapping out spec changes to fit it in nefore the set bonus change was posted). However, this pretty much means that you won't have much choice in the matter now regardless. Our overall regeneration capability is still much more limited than other healing classes (we still have Hymn of Hope the Raid Doesn't Die, after all), and trinkets such as Jaws of Defeat require far more ramp time to give us the desired effect. So, in essence, if you are the average raiding holy (sorry, "non-discipline") priest that doesn't have heroic FoM/SoW super combo, this new set bonus is your best option to close the blue bar gap between yourself and those other healers that have much more effective (and sometimes flashier) restorative cooldowns to utilize.

    The 4-pc change, however, makes me giddy. Like, extremely /squeal excited. Not only did they fix my initial concern with the original design (mana conservation capability), this also gives me an additional idea of how it could make Serenity a bit better by increasing the buff it provides by 20% (making it last approximately 8 seconds rather than 6, which should mean it's up for two GHs instead of just one after factoring in GCD wait time). While this may not seem the flashiest of increases, at it's still remaining 15 second cooldown this means it is now increased to around 50% uptime. This also does the same for Sanctuary, increasing it's duration from it's standard 18 seconds to approximately 22 seconds (at it's 40 second cooldown). Which will, of course, add 2-3 additional ticks of Sanctuary (factored of course by haste).

    As a side note and completely off topic, KEL! You changed your Celes avatar after less than a week. I am very sad. Celes was by far one of my favorite FF6 characters. Who or what is the new one, by the way?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    but considering that you're still dropping how much mana on Hymn, I don't even see that as an option either (spending to save?).
    Theoretically, you could squeeze 8 shields w/ a cancel cast of DH within the window, which would save 12,601.08mana on 8shields(in IF). If 7, 11025.95. DH costs 7412.4 mana. If your goal is to cast x7/8shields, then cancel casting DH is less in net mana than not cancel casting DH. So, the only question would be, does DH resolve more damage than 7/8 PW:S, from a pure HPS standpoint.

    But, again, assuming Disc will even trigger the 2pc w/ DH in live version of the set.

  18. #278
    What are extra ticks of sanc going to do when people aren't stacked? I very very rarely use Serenity, and even when I do it isn't for the 25% crit buff... it is just for a cheap instant cast heal. The buff is negligable. The 4set for holy is pretty much worthless.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-30 at 01:14 AM ----------

    I still liked my Hymn of Hope set bonuses... but no one commented on em haha.

  19. #279
    Not sure if it was bugged or not but on the PTR the CD for Divine hymn was only 2 minutes after getting the talent and not 3. (8 minutes before, says reduces by 5)...

    but either way, i cant believe you people are still complaining it is a hell of a lot better than lightwell. for 25 mans it would be silly to not bring a holy priest now. 2 or 3 minute divine hymn that heals for insane amounts. I am pretty glad for the changes i enjoy holy so much

  20. #280
    High Overlord AtomicKiller's Avatar
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    i still have problem with these setbonuses...for disci maybe it will be fine, but for holy after you top whole raid with DH, than there is nothing to heal, so most of the buff will be wasted or overheals (atleast 10 man, where you can top whole raid with 1 hymn)...:/

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