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  1. #41
    This was my main concern with 2p, and I agree if they change the wording it will be great. I still forsee using 2p t12 until I get 4p t13. I also think 4p would be great with an execute phase, ignore dots and just SWD,MS,MB and DA on rotation for under 25 burn phases. I am looking forward to 100k crit MB on cooldown.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by qactuar View Post
    ...it's possible that, instead of removing backlash entirely, they'll just reduce it by 99% or something like that...
    I do like that Idea. It would also cut out the disc bubble annoyance.

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Or it's possible that they are planning for there to be so much unavoidable raid damage that we wouldn't need the damage from sw: d to trigger it. Masochism
    Call me crazy but I REALLY hope that's not the case

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellumina View Post
    Call me crazy but I REALLY hope that's not the case
    Same, I really like the current mechanic. It adds an interesting flavor to the class.
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament
    You would think that after all these years people would have realized that the people at Blizzard aren't sorcerors and are hindered by technology just like the rest of us mortals.
    Quote Originally Posted by stormcall
    I will never understand why so many people who quit can't just QUIT and move on, and instead feel the need to come tell everyone about it, as if they just won the $100 million jackpot.

  5. #45
    Lol.. yea I hope it's not either... would feel bad for the healers.

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans ElAmigo's Avatar
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    Lol, I love how my post on pg 1 was totally ignored, does no one find that as a viable way to start out a fight?
    "Didn't we have some fun...though? Remember when the platform was sliding into the fire pit and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'No way' and then I was all 'We pretended we were going to murder you'......that was great"

  7. #47
    Question is, how much of a rise in DPS would these bonuses grant?

  8. #48
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Set bonuses are really bad.

    2-piece:
    - If it doesn't deal damage it doesn't proc masochism - let's hope they fix this
    - a 55% buff is a decent dps increase during execute range, but only will account for a very small increase in our overall damage to the entire fight - over the course of the fight this works out to a pretty bad set bonus in terms of dps gain

    4-piece:
    - Given the pathing issues with Shadowy Appariations (especcially since the next tier all about fighting a dragon in the sky), and the retardation of Shadowfiend, there will be fights where our appariations won't be able to reach their target and will just stand around dumbfounded, or shadowfiend will go lick walls - making this bonus do nothing
    - while all your mind blasts will now have 3 orbs, that means all the orbs you currently gain from mind flay lose their damage value - meaning that while you will see an increase in your mind blast damage (burst), your overall dps will see a negligble dps increase because you are Losing the value of all current orbs generated - since you cast MB on cooldown regardless - the current orbs scale your MB's up - using this bonus you will always be orb capped and lose an enormous amount of orbs inside each MB cooldown over the course of a fight, example:
    Tier 12: Very rarely you proc 4 (or more) orbs inside an MB cooldown, MB only scales to 3 orbs = you lose 1 orb very rarely
    Tier 13: You proc 12 orbs inside the 6.5 second MB cooldown, MB only scales to 3 orbs = you lose 9 orbs inside that MB
    Result: while most of the orbs you lost were also the result of this set bonus, ALL of the orbs that your dps currently is benefiting from are considered lost by this set bonus - you can roughly approximate the resulting benefit of this set bonus by the following.


    Do a full dps parse for a good duration (say, 5 minutes). Check your recount, look at your Mind Blast damage, take the lowest hit and lowest crit values - we can assume these were 0-orb Mind Blasts excluding potions, procs, and wings (so don't use those if you want to make this more accurate). Multiply the number of crit MB's by the lowest crit MB's damage - and multiply the number of non-crit MB hits by the lowest MB hit and add these values together. Subtract All of the damage your Mind Blasts contributed to your dps during that parse, and add the (previously calculated) value of the lowest hit/crit MB's - you now know the difference your current Shadow Orb procs are having on your dps but including their full effect from Shadow Empowerment.

    Then you can just sub in the value of what a 3-orb mind blast does to determine the benefit of this set bonus - but the real point is that all the above orbs (naturally occurring orbs) are lost due to orb overflow. So you need to subtract the benefit you currently receive from the naturally occuring orbs from the benefit you gain from the set bonus to see the true value here - which is nowhere near as good many of you seem to think.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ElAmigo View Post
    Lol, I love how my post on pg 1 was totally ignored, does no one find that as a viable way to start out a fight?
    It has to do with that it is possible it will be, but we have absolutely no way to try it out/sim it atm to find out.

  10. #50
    My thoughts on the Shadow bonuses:

    2p -- This has got to be in response to us eventually losing the 2p T12 bonus causing Shadowfiend to be used more often in respect to more Shadowfiends = more mana regen. I also have a feeling that the 2p is going to cause SWD to be used on cooldown because of not worrying about excess damage and the improved output. Sub-25% this is going to absolutely rape.

    4p -- This is Blizzard's fix to our crappy RNG. If it was just from Shadowfiend damage, then I'd shrug it off, but because it is from Shadow Apparitions also this makes it almost guaranteed. On this week's H: Shannox 25 kill I had 355 Shadowy Apparitions do damage over 4:09, or nearly 1.5 SAs hitting PER SECOND. This is definitely nothing to scoff at.

  11. #51
    Yea Twin that is sort of why I am thinking that the 4pc might work out to be a bit op as is = /

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Yea Twin that is sort of why I am thinking that the 4pc might work out to be a bit op as is = /
    How is it OP? We cap at three. It's rare that I have 0-1 orb when mind blast is up. It's common to have 2-3. The orb generation will be steady and often, but with a cap of 3 it's not by any means OP.

  13. #53
    2 piece:
    There will have to be some math done, but I am curious to know if SW: D will be viable as a filler spell with it hitting harder now, and be a better damage output over Mind Flay. Hopefully mana does not become an issue, but I don't think that should be to much of an issue.

    4 piece:
    Seems to take out the RNG of orbs, and gives us a new opener which is good to see since there were several people who were also complaining about the little use of Mind Spike. I am curious though when SF is out if we will use Mind Spike or not since it will be so many 3 procs of orbs. The 4 piece should increase the value of Mastery, and probably become pretty valuable once at different haste levels.

    Overall, they both seem pretty good; however, some math done for the 2/4 piece with different casts/rotation will be needed to know the true strength of the tier sets. Neither seem over powered, and not to weak either.

  14. #54
    The 2pc is exciting as there are many occasions where sw:d can't be used in execute phase (ie: baleroc, with debuff it will one shot ) Wondering if 55% more dmg will move it into being used in the normal rotation above 25% though? (ie: how will it compare with 0 orb mindblast?) Too lazy to punch #s right now :P

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ltopray View Post
    How is it OP? We cap at three. It's rare that I have 0-1 orb when mind blast is up. It's common to have 2-3. The orb generation will be steady and often, but with a cap of 3 it's not by any means OP.
    Because we will always have three orbs... I mean they might as well do away with the orb mechanic completely and just buff MB damage at that point. Right now it does still happen that MB gets cast without an orb up, and even more commonly with one or two orbs. With this set bonus... the whole point of the orb mechanic is completely rendered pointless... so unless they want to get rid of it completely (which they might) they won't be happy with 100% uptime on 3 orbs.

  16. #56
    4pc seems like a considerable damage boost, with an element of RNG to it in apparitions (but what part of our rotation doesn't have that anyway?)...going to miss SWDing for mana but with the insane damage boost it's sure as hell going to receive a lot more love than it does right now.

    I don't think they're terrible bonuses, which is more than I can say for previous tiers, haha.

  17. #57
    Based on some rough napkin math from my logs this past week, it won't be worth it to SWD on cooldown, but it won't as big of a dps loss as it is now to use it either. The following is based on an ilvl of 384.

    Ignoring crits, 155% of a non-execute SWD is about 9-10k damage instead of 6-6.5k damage. This comes out to ~8.4k dps, in comparison to the ~10.6k dps of straight MF spam (again ignoring crits).
    Last edited by Aleysia; 2011-09-25 at 04:35 AM.

  18. #58
    those that think the masochism won't work anymore are seriously delusional. Blizzard can easily make it a -0 damage or absorb effect and still work with the talent. Chill out until it can be tested -_____-

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Because we will always have three orbs... I mean they might as well do away with the orb mechanic completely and just buff MB damage at that point. Right now it does still happen that MB gets cast without an orb up, and even more commonly with one or two orbs. With this set bonus... the whole point of the orb mechanic is completely rendered pointless... so unless they want to get rid of it completely (which they might) they won't be happy with 100% uptime on 3 orbs.
    The damage difference between 1/2 and 2/3 orbs isn't large enough for me to consider it OP. Smoothing out some moderate spikes is more like it. It's also been brought up that that the terrain is unknown and we're notorious for spawning special clones when terrain isn't optimal. Yeah, it may take away an aspect of our class, but again, nothing too significant as far as damage output.

  20. #60
    Yeah, I think 4pc needs to be altered; SAs should generate three orbs when they hit, but the SF needs to generate one per hit. Why? Simple:

    Shadowfiend lasts 15 seconds and has an attack speed of 1.5; 10 hits per usage. 10 hits = 30 orbs. Mindblast cooldown: 4s. Mindblasts in 15s: 3, assuming good playstyle and timing. Orbs thusly used by mindblast: 9. Wasted orbs: 21, excluding all other orb procs during the shadowfiend duration.

    Assuming each hit generated one orb instead: 10 hits = 10 orbs. thus you'll get 2 full orb minblasts and one 2-orb minblast, excluding all other orb procs during the shadowfiend duration. 0 wasted orbs.

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