[Priest] Shadow t13 set bonuses.

[Purpleisbetter]

I think the most get upset when they have the infamous 20-sec-orb-starved openings at boss.

I have to admit that if u raid mainly as shadow, it pisses the hell out of you.

[lovecraft]

I think the most get upset when they have the infamous 20-sec-orb-starved openings at boss.

I have to admit that if u raid mainly as shadow, it pisses the hell out of you.

ya that 20secs without an orb is a huge pain in my ass.

[Arlee]

Eh, I don't get pissed when that happens... it does annoy me but... idk, it's not something I have any control over so it seems pointless to get pissed about it the rare times it does... but then I don't hate the orb system the way a lot of people do either.

[Constantino]

orbs are orbs, 20sec is no big deal, its random, it will wash out in the big puzzle. Unless your a meter whore in a pug with frequent early wipes, I think your value is determined by more than your burst DPS, something your tanks will appreciate of the class anyway.

To waste a 4pc bonus on something so silly and insignificant only because it happens to get alot QQ is far more fustrating.

[Deleted]

T13 2p is worth more in 10men then in 25s. For sure, in 10men the competition between classes in execute range is dramatically lower. And in 10men it's really possible to have a fight where there are no affli locks, fury wars and rogues (best classes @ <25% i believe) wich translates in longer execute phase and more chances to get 2*100k crit SW: D double taps!

You can't really state such things. You are right about the weigth of the 2 set will depend on the raid comp. But just because 25mans will have more of everything doesn't mean that they'll be having a faster execute phase since the weight of having a say aff lock instead of a boomkin in 25mans sub 25 % is worth less than having an aff lock instead of a boomkin in 10mans.
What really is important is wether shadow priests with the 2 set bonus has a higher relative dps gain of the execute phase (sub 25 %) in comparison to the average relative DPS gain of an execute phase of the most commenly used raid DPS specs.
Since you will be 1/5th of the dps specs in a 10man and 1/17th part in a 25man it is better if your relative dps gain is higher than the average relative dps gain of the most commonly used specs in 25mans and lower in 10mans.
But what is the most important is how the fights are designed, wether your raid uses the personal and raid dps cooldowns for sub 25 % or not and the relative length of the sub 25 % phase. An example: Since the dps gain of shadow word: death doesn't scale well with heroism it is best for your personal dps gain to not use heroism doing your execute phase.

[Keosen]

Since the dps gain of shadow word: death doesn't scale well with heroism it is best for your personal dps gain to not use heroism doing your execute phase.

I think you meant don't use SW: D during Heroism/Bloodlust

[Sikizim]

The way i look at it, is if they proc, they proc, if they don't they don't i don't really care either way i know my dps will be good over the duration of the fight and will be very strong finishing.

I'm still not convinced they are as good as everyone is saying they are, if you would look at a whole nights raid, how many times would one cast SWD? buffing it might give us some impressive numbers and remove the annoying backlash but meh not really bothered.

Even if the dps increase is 0 from bonus', the gear difference will make it alot better anyway.

[Purpleisbetter]

Given the fact that these bonuses, compared to t12's are a joke...



4pcT13 i guess should grant us a hypothetical MB on cd with AT LEAST a orb. Wich, if that's true, is even more then the 25% mind blast damage of 4pcT12.

But since is totally random (Apparitions, Shadowfiend with no 75sec cd reduction) it, in the very end, adds up another ton of RNG factors.

Edit to add: on a second tought, if there's any V&T kind of ok encounter, 4pcT13 is a hell of a set bonus.

[hikamiro]

I think you meant don't use SW: D during Heroism/Bloodlust

No, it'd would still be a dps increase to use SW: D during Heroism, it's just that MF scales better with haste then SW: D so heroism is more effective for you when the target is not in execute range.

[Kaldemic]

well not only does it fix the orb problem, the sfiend aspect theoretically allows you to simply spam mind spike/mb for 3 orb hits each. This mechanic in itself may vastly increase the value of mastery and a lesser extent crit, because while your fiend is out your hitting 3xMastery value (for me atm thats 84% more damage @ 12.64% mastery, or 107.7% more with theralion's mirror proc)
I haven't done the numbers but haste might even be bad (so you can get 1 spike per fiend melee hit).

just a thought

[Keosen]

No, it'd would still be a dps increase to use SW: D during Heroism

Where did you get this it's wrong by miles.

t's just that MF scales better with haste then SW: D so heroism is more effective for you when the target is not in execute range.

Heroism it's not a personal CD why you acting like it is?
It's not based on individuals skills but when is needed on a fight.
You ain't gonna ask your guild not to use BL @<25% because one of your spells doesn't scales well with haste.

[Lyllee]

At least these bonuses are better than some in the past.. curious to try out the 4pc though.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

I think the setbonuses sound great. I dunno about the interaction with masochism... but 55% more dmg is great!
but the best thing is 4p, i really wonder how well arch+sfiend+MS/MB will work out :-)
for general use, I would have found it much cooler, if the bonus would have added 1 or 2 Orbs to your current ones (disregarding the limit) instead of 3/3. as others mentioned, you often enough already have some orbs. but thats sugar, it's cool as it is

[Maievshadow]

Sorry, but i think these set bonuses are crap.

The 2 set, sure it'll be nice DPS increase sub 25%. However because it does no damage we wont get any mana back when using it, couple that with losing the reduced CD on SF and we'll have having fairly big mana problems again.

The 4 set, this will only help during the first 15 seconds of the fight pretty much, at other times we'll only actually gain 1 sometimes 2 shadoworbs, and thats if the Shadow Apps even hit the boss, which doesnt happen all that often. And during SF we'll be cut back by the Mind Blast CD, so most of the shadoworbs will go to waste. Shadoworbs is the main problem with shadowpriests right now, sure this set bonus will fix it for this tier, but then next tier/expansion will come out and we'll have the exact same problem back again.

This some slight tweaking of abilitys/talents, the set bonuses could be made from crap to average.

[Keosen]

The 4 set, this will only help during the first 15 seconds of the fight pretty much, at other times we'll only actually gain 1 sometimes 2 shadoworbs, and thats if the Shadow Apps even hit the boss, which doesnt happen all that often. And during SF we'll be cut back by the Mind Blast CD, so most of the shadoworbs will go to waste. Shadoworbs is the main problem with shadowpriests right now, sure this set bonus will fix it for this tier, but then next tier/expansion will come out and we'll have the exact same problem back again.

What are you talking about have you even read the tooltips of 4p?

[nycnyc88]

Sorry, but i think these set bonuses are crap.

The 2 set, sure it'll be nice DPS increase sub 25%. However because it does no damage we wont get any mana back when using it, couple that with losing the reduced CD on SF and we'll have having fairly big mana problems again.

The 4 set, this will only help during the first 15 seconds of the fight pretty much, at other times we'll only actually gain 1 sometimes 2 shadoworbs, and thats if the Shadow Apps even hit the boss, which doesnt happen all that often. And during SF we'll be cut back by the Mind Blast CD, so most of the shadoworbs will go to waste. Shadoworbs is the main problem with shadowpriests right now, sure this set bonus will fix it for this tier, but then next tier/expansion will come out and we'll have the exact same problem back again.
This some slight tweaking of abilitys/talents, the set bonuses could be made from crap to average.

I actually agree with this.... the bonuses are very meh, especially compared to other dps classes bonuses..
2P is useful only during the exec stage - it provides no dps increase at all during all other times. (All other classes bonuses do).
4P useful only during start, and that is very marginal too - first of all, if you use SF right away it wont benefit from any of the procs that might happen, second at start your mana is at full, so there is potentially some wasted mana regen. Dont forget, when we lost T12 4 piece , we lose SF CD bonus.
For T13, i would expect bonuses that offer consistent DPS increase throughout the fight.

[Deleted]

Where did you get this it's wrong by miles.

No, it is not wrong. With or without tier 13 2 set bonus it is still worth to use shadow word: death during heroism/bloodlust assuming you aren't lacking empowered shadows uptime. But that's relatively unlikely since heroism/bloodlust is on.

Heroism it's not a personal CD why you acting like it is?
It's not based on individuals skills but when is needed on a fight.
You ain't gonna ask your guild not to use BL @<25% because one of your spells doesn't scales well with haste.

Dude, that was something I said from the beginning. You interpreted it wrong, and now you are assuming the guy you quoted thinks heroism is a personal CD.. How nice of you. Please read the discussed topic from the beginning.
I was basically commenting on someone who said that the (2) set bonus in the tier 13 set would be more powerful in 10mans compared to 25mans, whereas I replied that it had all something to do with raid comp, encounter, wether heroism was used during execute or not and how strong the execute would end up being in comparison to other specs.
I know that all of us can agree that heroism is a raid cooldown, but you are still quite dependable on minor details like the timing of heroism if you want top 30 WoL ranks (this is not a goal, only a fun thing to do during farm), assuming you aren't one wearing BiS gear and your guild has an average boss kill speed (because that suddenly makes it 10 times easier).

[Yvaelle]

I like how all the bad priests and non-priests think these set bonuses are amazing and likely overpowered, while all the priests who do math to support their conclusions, or raid high level content recognize that these set bonuses are deceptively bad and noticeably worse than the set bonuses we're currently giving up. This would potentially offend someone but it's unlikely that anyone who might be offended also reads 9 pages into a thread - I get the impression a lot of these responses didn't even make it through the first post before replying "ZOMG SO AM4ZING LATS OF ORBZ!" /facepalm

[hikamiro]

I like how all the bad priests and non-priests think these set bonuses are amazing and likely overpowered, while all the priests who do math to support their conclusions, or raid high level content recognize that these set bonuses are deceptively bad and noticeably worse than the set bonuses we're currently giving up. This would potentially offend someone but it's unlikely that anyone who might be offended also reads 9 pages into a thread - I get the impression a lot of these responses didn't even make it through the first post before replying "ZOMG SO AM4ZING LATS OF ORBZ!" /facepalm

The quality of Life gains from early orbs are nice, and it's a solid increase. The 2 piece is also nice from a QoL standpoint. I'm extremely happy with these bonuses, they cannot always be better then last tiers and the stat upgrades will be worth it. There's no reason to be upset, or attempt to insult others who may or may not understand this.

[Deleted]

Considering that we're going to lose the effect of masochism (if it stays in its current state), get a 75 seconds longer CD on our fiend and on top of that might have to add a mana expensive mindspike spam in our rotation, I'm genuinely worried that we're going to have mana problems. Of course this is totally dependant on the encounters, if there will be downtime where we can't dps we can use dispersion, but if not I'd rather go oom.