Rogue Tier 13 Set bonuses discussions here please.

[Improvedlol]

2p seems pretty good 6 sec every 30sec so 20% is really nice.
Something has to be done for Combat tho, When you got adrenaline rush activated your global cooldown for specials is reduce by 50% (so you can use your energy).

But the 4p isnt balanced enough between each specs.
4P -- Increases the duration of Shadow Dance by 2 sec, Adrenaline Rush by 3 sec, and Vendetta by 9 sec.
Should be 4 sec for dance, AR 7sec, Vendetta could stay 9 sec.

[Blazefury5]

1 ambush vs 2 SS vs 1 mutilate / envenom

[Enhshamanlol]

They want people to go mut next patch, we're going to engery cap with two set as combat and that going to suck

[marcelos11]

They want people to go mut next patch, we're going to engery cap with two set as combat and that going to suck

yeah, mutilate gets the most use out of the bonuses. that said i wish we got bonuses that werent tied to tricks as we cant use em while soloing. hopefully they buff mutilate scaling issues.

[Bloodlover]

at first i thought the 2pc sucked for combat, then i realized all you'd have to do it time AR around tricks so they don't coincide.

[Nealia °_°]

soooo... as mutilate we just have to hope, that there are no bosses with many target switches and the bonuses are fine.

for combat they are just shit... HELLOOO energy capping

[Dirty Wounds]

4P is both underwhelming and disaapointing, I think that blizzard should be like do I want people who pvp to get the set bonus because it is just that good?

[Senka]

These are so boring and just plain bad that I see these as placeholders. This is all preliminary and not even on the PTR yet. How could set bonuses like these really stay?

[pavl]

2 seconds on shadow dance? That's pitiful. Also more energy capping, hurrah.

[Grindfreak]

Source

2P -- After triggering Tricks of the Trade, your abilities cost 20% less energy for 6 sec.
4P -- Increases the duration of Shadow Dance by 2 sec, Adrenaline Rush by 3 sec, and Vendetta by 9 sec.


Keep the discussion nice please.

[Grindfreak]

Merging this with the sticky, lots of love <3

[Bitlovin]

2 piece seems really weak to me. 20% less energy for 6 secs might mean an extra mutilate every TotT for assassin, not really exciting.

4 piece seems ok for assassin, not so great for the other specs.

I guess we can't really complain about weak set bonuses this tier, considering the legendary is for us, though.

[RogueDurr]

2 piece seems really weak to me. 20% less energy for 6 secs might mean an extra mutilate every TotT for assassin, not really exciting.

4 piece seems ok for assassin, not so great for the other specs.

I guess we can't really complain about weak set bonuses this tier, considering the legendary is for us, though.

I am gonna guess the value of the 4pc will be about the same for all 3 specs. Vendetta compared to the other specs cooldowns is not nearly as strong, more then likely the reason why they made vendetta 9sec.

[Tric619]

2 piece is kinda week even if you energy cap before tricking is still not much use at least not for Assas, My guess is it will be more usefull under 35% as you can squeze maybe 4 bs in that timeframe wich isnt bad but again when u get to that point energy isnt an issue anymore...

As for 4 piece is preaty weak too imo not good enough to be a 4 piece bonus comparing to how good current 4 piece is.
Im hoping there will be tweaks on the duration or better yet a complete revamp of 4p on ptr

[Moxi]

...that said i wish we got bonuses that werent tied to tricks as we cant use em while soloing. hopefully they buff mutilate scaling issues.

I agree. I said the a similar thing in the thread speculating what our next tier set would be - I raised question why people were suggesting things be tied to tricks, which requires another person in your party.

[Tric619]

I actually wonder if vendetta glyph is gonna benefit from it, if the time is calculated after 4p it means that efectivelly vendetta will be up for about 47 seconds wich might even make the glyph more viable.

[Enhshamanlol]

I actually wonder if vendetta glyph is gonna benefit from it, if the time is calculated after 4p it means that efectivelly vendetta will be up for about 47 seconds wich might even make the glyph more viable.

oh my that will be awesome.

[Ashvael]

Stop complaining about DPS. I know energy capping sucks, but it's not like you're energy capping 24/7 as combat. About having the bonus tied to tricks is another story, but well.

Lets deal with the 4pc first, as its easier.

Assassination: The Vendetta boost is 1.5x times stronger than the Glyph, which (for me) is worth 320 DPS; hence, the set bonus is worth around 480 DPS.
Combat: 60% of Glyph of AR, which, for the Combat rogue in my guild, is showing as 897 DPS; hence, the set bonus is worth around 540 DPS.
Subtlety: Identical to the Glyph; speccing myself Sub, I show it as worth around 330 DPS.

Since 1 EP provides a bit more than 1 DPS, we're probably talking something around 400 EP for Combat and Assassination, and more like 250-300 for Subtlety. This is pretty good - similar to the T12 4/5pc.

The 2pc reduces the energy cost of abilities by 20% while active; this effectively gives us 25% more energy to spend (1 / (1-.2) = 1.25). It has 20% uptime, so thus gives us about 5% more energy to spend (more, if you pool to optimize the buff - but lets ignore that for the moment). Hence, the set bonus is equivalent to roughly a 5% energy regen increase.

Glyph of Tricks - which is conveniently scored by ShadowCraft - is .5 energy per second; 5% will be between .7 and .9 energy per second, depending on spec. Working out some napkinmath, we find that the set bonus is worth something like 700 DPS - as in, really really good. Perhaps too good. Particularly since you can improve on that with good energy management.

I also feel the need to reiterate my dislike for Tricks-linked set bonuses. I won't repeat the whole argument - you can find it here if you're curious - but I do hope they replace the 2pc with something better before the patch is released.

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t126333-...n/#post2011806

[jotad4]

"Add needs killing? Rogue's available? HAH! NO HE'S NOT! ROGUE, GO SIT ON THE BOSS FOR 50 MORE SECONDS AND SPAM DEATH ON HIS @SS!! And here's a Legendary for you."

This is gonna be fun.

[RogueDurr]

With the 4.3 set bonuses announced, there is a lot to talk about. While the bonuses look good on the surface, reduced energy cost of abilities and longer duration of each specs strongest cooldowns, there might be some issues that may arise. I personally think the 4pc is nice, but I think its value will be marginal. The real question will be the 2pc.

While I don't have the tools to turn a lot of what I am about to speculate into hard math, I can visualize some strong issues that the 2pc bonuse will cause for assassination and combat. To get the easy one out of the way first, combat is could see some strange effects from the 2pc. Combat is already having strong regen to a point where its very rare to be energy starved with the amount of raw haste and haste procs we have at our disposal. To use the extreme example first, if you happen to tot during, or just before you pop AR, the value of the 2pc is going to be almost nothing at that point. Your already fighting to use all the incoming energy (in most cases you can not) and now lowering the amount of energy spent will just make the capping even more unavoidable. Another example where the value of the 2pc will not be used at its up-most ability is during haste procs. This tier and probably the next tier, haste procs tend to result in a AR like energy regen. While its not as bad as AR, you are still fighting to spend all of your energy. If you proc your 2pc during these times, it will very well may cause you to energy cap. Some of these situations can be avoided by delaying using Tot, but then your effecting your up time of the tot bonuses on the target. So your stuck choosing between dps loses, either not toting or energy capping or both.

For assassination you very often wait or pool energy when you have 4-5 CP waiting for your envenom buff to expire or to refresh rupture. While waiting for 1 of the 2 situations usually dont cap you out, with the amount of haste you are running this tier and next tier you tend to pool up quick, maybe not to the point of energy capping but close. With this 2pc I can see situations where because you won't drain all of your energy after your last mutilate that got you to 4 or 5 CP because the decreased cost of energy will leave you less room to pool. With less space to pool well may cause you to energy cap waiting to refresh rupture or for the envenom debuff to expire. While clipping the envenom debuff is probably the least dps lose of those situations, its still a form of a dps loss. And like combat delaying Toting will also cause of a dps. For sub I can't think that this will cause too much of a issue but I will leave Synek to theory craft for sub on this.

If my theories are somewhat correct, which very well could be incorrect, then the 2pc is kind of not that good. And with shadowcraft not modeling energy capping, it may overlook these situations. I am sure EJ will come up with numbers and figures in the near future, but this will be leaving me scratching my head for a little bit