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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldacar View Post
    As much work as is was to make the graphs though I still think resilience is pretty much always the best way to go, so they are not terribly useful rofl. I will be posting it up here on the forums soon!
    If all your work proves is this then it was stil worth it as it Proves to all that you should never gem stamina instead of resi in pvp.

    your next questions will be ones like " at 4k resi shouldi get 40 resi in a slot or 20 resi 30 stam to gain the socket bonus of 10 resi"

    basicaly variants of "at which resi level does X ammount of stamina beat Y ammount of resi"

    since it would be nice to know that at:
    2k resi -> 40 stamina is worth the same as 20 resi
    3k resi -> 30 stamina is worth the same as 20 resi
    4k resi -> 25 stamina is worth the same as 20 resi
    5k resi -> 20 stamina is worth the same as 20 resi

    tis only a guess but you can see where i am going with it

  2. #62
    Today I unfortunately discovered that a number of my guides and posts here on MMO-Champ had been plagarized by a for-profit website which I will not name that was removing my name from my posts and then presenting them as their own work. Ive contacted the website in question and they cooperated with my request to credit me and MMO-champ as the original source, but the experience has made it necessary for me to include explicit anti-plagarism notices at the bottom of my guides. It saddens me deeply that I needed to do this, I love the MMO champ forums and I love writing guides and helping the community and I want everyone to be able to share the information freely. But claiming someone elses work as your own in order to profit from it is wholly and unequivically wrong and I need to do what I can to combat it and provide myself with clear legal recourse if it happens in the future.

    So for everyones future reference, all the guides that I make are my own original work and intellectual property. The MMO-champ PVP forums are their original source, they are sometimes reposted in other places such as my blog, but they are posted here first. If you wish to use information or graphs from my posts for non-profit use you are very welcome to, I want this information to be shared, but please credit myself as the Author and the MMO-Champ forums as the source. If you wish to use something from my posts on a for-profit website please contact me for permission through a private message here on the MMO-champ forums.

    Again im sorry any of this was necessary, and I greatly appreciate the support everyone here in the MMO-Champ community has shown me and my guides.
    @EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP

  3. #63
    at least they co-operated but if they are charging anyone for work you did you should be entitled to a cut if they refuse you can make them remove it.

    still sucks they did it i hope it doesn't put you off doing mroe of these when new patches come in!

  4. #64
    at least they co-operated but if they are charging anyone for work you did you should be entitled to a cut if they refuse you can make them remove it.

    still sucks they did it i hope it doesn't put you off doing mroe of these when new patches come in!
    I'm satisfied with the resolution I came to with them, don't really want to waste any more of my time dealing with them honestly. As for putting me off, it was pretty disheartening to see but I have no plans to stop writing guides, I enjoy making them and enjoy contributing what I can to the PVP community. In fact it's extremely likely I will be writing a lot more guides on a variety of PVP subjects in the future =)

    I should also note that I got some great news yesterday that totally wiped this incident out of my mind, it's directly related to my community contributions but it's too early for me to reveal the details. It should become official some time next week and I will commemorate it by releasing a new guide =D
    @EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP

  5. #65
    any news on your new project?

  6. #66
    any news on your new project?
    I was actually referring to the season transition FAQ, but don't worry there are plenty more guides to come! Now I will just be posting them in green text on the official forums too!
    @EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldacar View Post
    I was actually referring to the season transition FAQ, but don't worry there are plenty more guides to come! Now I will just be posting them in green text on the official forums too!
    ooo u got MVP? gratz if so!

  8. #68
    This proves my theory i had a long time ago on farstriders realm i was talking in trade chat and said "stacking resil is better surviveability than SP for any healer" This proves it i stacked resil before this recent patch and i survived alot better than stackin extra SP. And ther was like 5-10 people who disagreed with me...

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by mavelena View Post
    This proves my theory i had a long time ago on farstriders realm i was talking in trade chat and said "stacking resil is better surviveability than SP for any healer" This proves it i stacked resil before this recent patch and i survived alot better than stackin extra SP. And ther was like 5-10 people who disagreed with me...
    While I am happy to be of assistance this doesn't really prove anything with regards to resil vs SP. For that comparison SP has a static value, it only increases your healing by so much per second, no more than that, where as resil will mitigate more and more damage per second the more damage you have coming in. There would be an incoming damage threshold point above which resil would be better and below which sp would be better.

    In order to determine the threshold you would need to go do tests to see how much the SP adds to your HPS, then calculate how much incoming DPS would be required for resil to mitigate more damage than SP would add healing for. Of course this is all assuming you are able to cast, if you are getting stun locked or blanket silenced etc resil will of course be better.
    @EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP

  10. #70
    while stacking resi will keep yourself alive beter, if your dps are the ones being nuked that resi isn't helping you keep yourself alive when your team mate is dead and your 2v1. so you should probably do a balance instead of a pure resi stack.

  11. #71
    Just a quick question, Probably already been answered but whats the res soft cap?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Themamick View Post
    Just a quick question, Probably already been answered but whats the res soft cap?
    trolling or just stupid?

    this whole thread is about how there ISN'T a cap to resilience

  13. #73
    Eeeeeeehh either I missed a point here, or else something is completely off..

    "The effects of percentage based damage reduction scale exponentially*, the more you have the more valuable additional damage reduction becomes. For example, lets say someone is hitting you for 100 damage, if you have 0% damage reduction and you add 1% that 100 damage is reduced to 99 damage, a 1% effective reduction. However if you already have 90% damage reduction and you add another 1% that 100 base damage which was already reduced to 10 is now further reduced to 9. That change in incoming damage from 10 to 9 is a 10% reduction in actual damage taken by adding just 1% of damage reduction."

    You are looking at it in a totally wrong way here. You have to look at the overall damage reduction - that is the only thing that counts.

    By taking your current intake of damage after x amount of damage reduction, and then calculating the worth of additional damage by comparing how much % you removed from previous intake to current is giving a wrong picture of reality and is misleading. Ofc it's going to look more valuable if you remove another 1% of 100 at already 90% and then go "hey I increased my damage reduction by additional 10%". It's 100% irrelevant - you removed 1%=1 damage and that is it. The more you reduce the damage, the smaller the finale damage taken is going to be - and obviously with your example it's eventually going to be from 98% damage reduction to 99% damage reduction - that is, yes, a damage reduction of 50% if you take it before/after. But it's irrelevant - you still only removed 1 damage.

    It's kinda the same as saying that, a monthly pay increase of 100 bucks per month is getting smaller because the % increase is getting smaller. Which is irrelevant because you can still afford the same amount of x items from that increase.


    I'd very much like to hear opinions about this from both OP and other people =)
    Last edited by Enaina; 2012-01-03 at 04:54 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    Eeeeeeehh either I missed a point here, or else something is completely off..

    "The effects of percentage based damage reduction scale exponentially*, the more you have the more valuable additional damage reduction becomes. For example, lets say someone is hitting you for 100 damage, if you have 0% damage reduction and you add 1% that 100 damage is reduced to 99 damage, a 1% effective reduction. However if you already have 90% damage reduction and you add another 1% that 100 base damage which was already reduced to 10 is now further reduced to 9. That change in incoming damage from 10 to 9 is a 10% reduction in actual damage taken by adding just 1% of damage reduction."

    You are looking at it in a totally wrong way here. You have to look at the overall damage reduction - that is the only thing that counts.

    By taking your current intake of damage after x amount of damage reduction, and then calculating the worth of additional damage by comparing how much % you removed from previous intake to current is giving a wrong picture of reality and is misleading. Ofc it's going to look more valuable if you remove another 1% of 100 at already 90% and then go "hey I increased my damage reduction by additional 10%". It's 100% irrelevant - you removed 1%=1 damage and that is it. The more you reduce the damage, the smaller the finale damage taken is going to be - and obviously with your example it's eventually going to be from 98% damage reduction to 99% damage reduction - that is, yes, a damage reduction of 50% if you take it before/after. But it's irrelevant - you still only removed 1 damage.

    It's kinda the same as saying that, a monthly pay increase of 100 bucks per month is getting smaller because the % increase is getting smaller. Which is irrelevant because you can still afford the same amount of x items from that increase.


    I'd very much like to hear opinions about this from both OP and other people =)
    what you're saying is completely irrelevant. The point of the OP was to show your effective health goes up per point of resilience even though the amount of damage reduction per point of resilence goes down.

  15. #75
    Scarab Lord Stanton Biston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    The more you reduce the damage, the smaller the finale damage taken is going to be - and obviously with your example it's eventually going to be from 98% damage reduction to 99% damage reduction - that is, yes, a damage reduction of 50% if you take it before/after. But it's irrelevant - you still only removed 1 damage.
    Assuming you have 100 hit points and the incoming damage is 1000 points, the change for 20 points of damage to 10 points of damage doubled the number of hits it would take to kill you, and increased the effect of getting healed for 20pts by 2x.

    We call the effect of the former, "Effective Health." The nominal change may be fixed, but the effect of the nominal change is not.
    It's kinda the same as saying that, a monthly pay increase of 100 bucks per month is getting smaller because the % increase is getting smaller. Which is irrelevant because you can still afford the same amount of x items from that increase.
    The error here is that you're talking about an increase.

    Say your base pay is $1000 per period. You lose $100 per period. On the first period, it's hardly noticeable. But by period 6 or 7, it's a big, big deal. At period 8, that $100 is half of your salary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    Considering you just linked a graph with no data plotted on it as factual evidence, I think Stanton can infer whatever the hell he wants.
    Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence - Sometimes I abbreviate this ECREE

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Biston View Post
    Assuming you have 100 hit points and the incoming damage is 1000 points, the change for 20 points of damage to 10 points of damage doubled the number of hits it would take to kill you, and increased the effect of getting healed for 20pts by 2x.

    We call the effect of the former, "Effective Health." The nominal change may be fixed, but the effect of the nominal change is not.
    The error here is that you're talking about an increase.

    Say your base pay is $1000 per period. You lose $100 per period. On the first period, it's hardly noticeable. But by period 6 or 7, it's a big, big deal. At period 8, that $100 is half of your salary.
    Here yea well.. I just thought about it once again, and yea

    100 HP 50% dmg reduction = 200 EH
    100 HP 75% dmg reduction = 400 EH

    But why is it relevant compared to stacking resil? I mean it only seems like this is relevant if you stand in a stun and cannot do anything?

    Not a mathy guy, so I just don't get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    what you're saying is completely irrelevant. The point of the OP was to show your effective health goes up per point of resilience even though the amount of damage reduction per point of resilence goes down.
    Not really, he has some concluding points as well:

    Qoute from OP:
    "The net total effect of resilience has increasing returns, the more you get the better it is plain and simple"
    "However if you are looking to gain more survivability you can stack resil forever and its only going to get better"

    What I am questioning is if it actually is getting better and better

  17. #77
    I think your reading comprehension level is lower than this thread allows.

    But to answer your query: yes resilience just keeps getting better.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    I think your reading comprehension level is lower than this thread allows.

    But to answer your query: yes resilience just keeps getting better.
    Speaking of reading comprehension, funny how you missed the threads point and I understood it.

    Just shut up really. You are only here to feel good about yourself, probably to compensate for your (lack of) real life. I already stated that I am not a mathy guy and due to that, don't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    trolling or just stupid?

    this whole thread is about how there ISN'T a cap to resilience
    And you just keep doing it

  19. #79
    wow personal attacks =S

    I don't even understand what you don't understand anymore.

    I'll just refer you to the original post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldacar View Post
    Eldacar's guide to resilience scaling

    TLDR: Resilience rating has diminishing returns, but the net effect of resilience has increasing returns. See pretty graphs below.
    This means that you get LESS damage reduction in % per point of resilience as your resilience increases.

    HOWEVER your effective health per point of resilience is still getting higher.

    You said you were't a mathy guy, so why not just read that part instead of trying to do math?
    Last edited by Illana; 2012-01-06 at 10:49 PM.

  20. #80
    Im getting on my PvP prot paladin 40k frostfires from mages and 28k ice lances (WITHOUT ZERKER) 20k backstabs from rogues 35k+ envenoms
    I have 4663 resi..
    nice balanced pvp... thanks blizz

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