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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    I actually look forward to paying (more) attention to the in-game world in combat. I just don't like that I have to dish out damage while doing so. It's probably just a personal quirk, but I like to put my full focus on support, be it putting down wards, giving buffs, CC'ing targets... Actually dealing damage isn't something I truly enjoy.
    Despite this (weird) personal preference I still look forward to playing a Guardian, and I'll probably play it well.
    I agree with you fully here. This is my issue with (PvE) GW2, and why I won't be playing PvE in GW2. I don't like having to focus on damage dealing at any point. To use an example from another game, in League of Legends, I enjoy playing characters like tanky Alistar and support Janna because they provide a ton of control and support. They control the positioning of enemies, provide ambient healing, or block damage taken by allies. Unless you build them heavy AP, their damage is almost totally negligible. They provide very active control and support that requires a lot of situational awareness. You don't have to be a heavy damage dealer in order to have an active playstyle and require high situational awareness, as long as the abilities are designed around these things. Just because the character does not deal noticeable damages does not mean I hang in the back staring at life bars. The problem is that many games like WoW force their support (healer) and control (tank) into very passive playstyles with a lot of abilities that are funneled entirely through the AI, or don't require an active playstyle.

    It's a moot point though, as they have already stated that the design goal is for everyone to be a hybrid DPS. I'll just avoid doing any PvE in GW2. It does get frustrating though trying to explain to people that full support/control characters and an active playstyle / situational awareness are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to be capable of devastating levels of damage for these things to be present.

  2. #42
    This is all speculative, of course. As I said, you're going to do damage in GW2 regardless, but I think someone will be able to focus on support & control, do it very well, and still be a valuable member of a group. Also, don't forget, that a bunch of support and control abilities also do damage.

    Where I think Ynna and I differ is, while I love supporting & controlling, I also like doing damage, because making enemy healthbars go down is essential to any MMO experience, and a dead mob is the ultimate form of control. It's dead.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    This is all speculative, of course. As I said, you're going to do damage in GW2 regardless, but I think someone will be able to focus on support & control, do it very well, and still be a valuable member of a group. Also, don't forget, that a bunch of support and control abilities also do damage.

    Where I think Ynna and I differ is, while I love supporting & controlling, I also like doing damage, because making enemy healthbars go down is essential to any MMO experience, and a dead mob is the ultimate form of control. It's dead.
    Which is honestly how most people feel, and why I think it will work out really well for ANet. I just won't personally be playing it, as it forces me into a playstyle I find incredibly boring (damage dealing).

    I don't mind incidental damage on support and control abilities. I just find abilities who's primary use is to deal damage (raw numbers) to be interesting at all. I'm the person who would rather have an ability that dealt 10% of an enemies health in damage, but stunned them for 3 seconds, than an ability that dealt 50% of their health in damage. I'd rather have a AoE snare ability than an AoE damage ability, even if the damage ability did 10 times the DPS of the snare.

    Of course, I do fully intend to play GW2 PvP, as my tastes in that are a little different.

  4. #44
    With running the risk of getting too heady, in a system like GW2, someone can feel support/control-ey and do damage, while someone can feel damage-y and do support/control, and their actions be nearly identical. I think that is what could make the system so elegant. Because the abilities are so striking, you can have "favorites" of which you identify, be they support, control, or damage, and still use all aspects of your profession, but the "feel" you get from playing is weighted to what you like most.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by thenewzero View Post
    I don't mind incidental damage on support and control abilities. I just find abilities who's primary use is to deal damage (raw numbers) to be interesting at all. I'm the person who would rather have an ability that dealt 10% of an enemies health in damage, but stunned them for 3 seconds, than an ability that dealt 50% of their health in damage. I'd rather have a AoE snare ability than an AoE damage ability, even if the damage ability did 10 times the DPS of the snare.
    1) Most damage dealing abilties do have incidental effects. Read the list of abilities on the wiki, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

    2) If they add the mesmer, then that may be the profession for you.

  6. #46
    The Patient MalazanFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggetmagic View Post
    I don't think people will be focusing on any of the 3, if ArenaNet designed their combat intuitively, you should have to switch regularly, and have a balance of all 3 within almost every fight.

    They might as well have stuck with the holy trinity, if people are just going to sit back and support, or throw some control into the mix as their only goal in combat. Sure, everyone will be DPSing regardless, because we only have 10 spells, and its impossible to have only support/control spells, and even then most of them contribute some damage.

    I guess what I'm hoping for is, as I've said earlier, in this thread or another here today. I want it to be like soloing stuff as a Mage on WoW. Reactive, quick on your feet, and adaptive, otherwise, its just a repackaged holy trinity.
    I completely agree for solo play, but I think in groups you should be able to personalize what you bring, be it by favoring support over damage or just a style of support (defensive or offensive) coupled with the damage you're bringing. If anything I think this should be an option some of the time simply because ANet keeps talking about choices, and I'm sure some RPers out there would like to be a "defensive support" guardian at least some of the time.

  7. #47
    Mechagnome Berteh's Avatar
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    It's such a brilliant idea. Encouraging team play to work towards a greater objective is something that many MMO's have lacked, and I am very glad that GW2 has decided to implement this in its own unique way.

  8. #48
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatian View Post
    Disc is funner than Holy in WoW.
    Hey, hey, hey. Non-Discipline is way, way more fun than Discipline.

    Like I said, maybe I'm just weird, but I don't get much satisfaction from making healthbars go down. I'm planning on building my Guardian so he can do a maximum of Support and Control and a minimum of damage and I hope that will be a viable playstyle in both PvE and PvP. I don't want to stand in the back and just heal or buff. I'm going to be in the frontlines, snaring people, putting op wards, debuffing and all that. Being mainly support doesn't mean non-interactivity.
    Resurrected Holy Priest

  9. #49
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    There's a very solid reason for me why this is important to be gone from MMO's. I don't want to be 'managing healthbars' for every single fight I get into. Throw down some support spells on the floor to help my team out? Sure, but I don't want to be a designated healbot just because I have 1 extra healing spell. (Speaking for Guardian)

  10. #50
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Should I ever enter a group on my warrior or elementalist and people start dictating roles I'm dropping group right then and there.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  11. #51
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Same, and we know it will happen.
    While i don't think its something thats gonna be mainstream once people adapt to the playstyle, it's something I see happening early on with players who aren't used to this type of play.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  12. #52
    Anyone who played the Defender Archetype in City of Heroes knows exactly what GW2 is trying to do. Generally speaking, you create debuffs and situations that reduce damage to allow your teammates to survive without direct healing. For example, laying down a sheet of ice so your enemies keep slipping and falling down instead of being able to attack. Or having a tornado constantly whirling around your body pinning enemies into corners, pushing them away, and debuffing their ability to successfully hit you.

    And even CoH dpsers had elements of this. Mostly for soloing, but helpful in group play.

    It really opens up a lot of cool and interesting ways to be a support class (or a class with support abilities) instead of casted vs instant vs AoE vs HoT healing. The potential problem, of course, is balance.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    Anyone who played the Defender Archetype in City of Heroes knows exactly what GW2 is trying to do. Generally speaking, you create debuffs and situations that reduce damage to allow your teammates to survive without direct healing. For example, laying down a sheet of ice so your enemies keep slipping and falling down instead of being able to attack. Or having a tornado constantly whirling around your body pinning enemies into corners, pushing them away, and debuffing their ability to successfully hit you.

    And even CoH dpsers had elements of this. Mostly for soloing, but helpful in group play.

    It really opens up a lot of cool and interesting ways to be a support class (or a class with support abilities) instead of casted vs instant vs AoE vs HoT healing. The potential problem, of course, is balance.
    ArenaNet won't have a problem with skill balancing after GW 1


  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berteh View Post
    It's such a brilliant idea. Encouraging team play to work towards a greater objective is something that many MMO's have lacked, and I am very glad that GW2 has decided to implement this in its own unique way.
    This! I totally agree with you there. I feel Guild Wars 2 will definately bring something new and exciting with this new combat system!

  15. #55
    All i know is that my resto druid wouldn't have to pick up agility leather leftovers from heroic dungeons to be able to do dailies alone as a kitty/bear i think that's what many people forget about, professions that are awesome at soloing AND can support a team with a quick swap of weapons/abilities? yes please. No more "/g anyone wanna do dailies with me please? i'll que for za/zg with you if you help" (<- that happened when i had both resto specs, one for tank heals and one for raid heals, i'm not THAT nooby :[ )

    Actually i loved being versatile on my resto druid, specially after everyone was decently geared and familiar with heroic 5mans i would always help dps (planting 3 shrooms in the middle of 10 mobs = resto druid on top of recount xD) pop into kitty form and quickly interrupt or use stampeding roar to quickly move away from/closer to mobs etc etc.. So this kind of play is right up my alley, and, from what i can tell, other peoples too, which is nice to see

    Also not having to throw away a weekend gaming night because of a missing healer or a tank sounds appealing.

  16. #56
    High Overlord mpaskin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    This is all speculative, of course. As I said, you're going to do damage in GW2 regardless, but I think someone will be able to focus on support & control, do it very well, and still be a valuable member of a group. Also, don't forget, that a bunch of support and control abilities also do damage.

    Where I think Ynna and I differ is, while I love supporting & controlling, I also like doing damage, because making enemy healthbars go down is essential to any MMO experience, and a dead mob is the ultimate form of control. It's dead.
    hoho well said sir!
    +1 internets for you!

  17. #57
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    I would NEVER play a healer, but I'm legitimately excited at the idea of support.

    As a Rogue, I would always try to be a smart DPS. On Marrowgar when an idiot hunter standing way out by himself got bonespiked, I would always be the one to rocketboot out and blow all my cooldowns to save his stupid ass. Or when my healers pulled agro, I would be the one to dash in and try and evasion tank for them. Even if I died doing it, to me it was better than topping a meter (and I used to parse top 200 on WoL), because I felt my actions had contributed more to our victory.
    This x100. I've been doing this since I started raiding in BC. My old guild leader even benched me for not toping charts (was a ret pally in BC... plus he was a dumb ass). When I switched guilds at the beginning of Wrath, my guild leader always used me as an example of good raid awareness.

    But what you described, and what I'm sure a fair amount of raiders do, is exactly what we -should- be doing.
    "Do not only practice your art, but force yourself into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine." -- Ludwig Van Beethoven

  18. #58
    Well I kinda like the whole wack-a-mole healing style


    Like another guy in this thread said, I really enjoy just standing in the background doing my thing, coordinating with the other healers and making sure everyone is alive and well, usually without them knowing just how much work that was. I mean I'd assume most of the people who has played a healer seriously actually like the way healing works, so for the Guildwars devs to dismiss it as being boring just concerns me a bit.

    Ill probably choose whichever class is going to provide the most support to the group, simply because dpsing doesn't interest me all that much.
    He only employs his passion who can make no use of his reason.

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgale View Post
    Well I kinda like the whole wack-a-mole healing style


    Like another guy in this thread said, I really enjoy just standing in the background doing my thing, coordinating with the other healers and making sure everyone is alive and well, usually without them knowing just how much work that was. I mean I'd assume most of the people who has played a healer seriously actually like the way healing works, so for the Guildwars devs to dismiss it as being boring just concerns me a bit.

    Ill probably choose whichever class is going to provide the most support to the group, simply because dpsing doesn't interest me all that much.
    I play a healer seriously and have since BC. In fact I have 4 healers and only 2 dps. The system is flawed and any illusion of fun has simply been ingrained in us by blizzard. There is literally no comparison available right now.


  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
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    I don't know how anyone can think healing in WoW is fun. And if you think you're going to be able to sit back and support in GW2, you are sorely mistaken. You will have to be fighting and dodging and dpsing and CCing - keeping yourself alive. Sure you can support your eammates with aoe effects, but there are no direct heals. You cannot target friendly players. You are responsible for yourself first in GW2.

    Now that I think about it, nothing in wow is fun. Tanking is an easy simple standing agaisnt a wall or simply taunting when you have a certain amount of stacks. Dpsing is hitting 11111111211111123 and healing is whack-a-mole. I cannot wait for wowers to pick up guild wars and have their eyes blasted open with how fun a game can actually be. I'm really excited about the lack of holy trinity.

    My only concern is for people wanting to only support and complaining about having to contribute to a fight in any other way. If you want to play whack a mole, by all means PLEASE stay and play wow. I'm really worried about the players who will insist on certain classes doing certain things during a fight. I really really hope supports have LONG cool-downs and harsh energy penalties so the whole group is forced to work together. I do not want one person being able to support the other 4. That is not what I signed up for.

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