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  1. #41
    The Patient MalazanFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Yeah I think using the word roles is just reintroducing the trinity through the backdoor, everyone should be doing everything - there are no roles.

    I really dread that GW2 will be full of people that insist on only doing DPS or Support, then it will just be the same shit all over again.
    While I agree that there aren't any set roles for the professions, I do think that a player could choose to favor a support or dps "role" if they wanted to. I would imagine that a sword & board / mace & warhorn warrior would have more support available on the fly than a greatsword / hammer. Or maybe it's not a choice between favoring support or dps but instead choosing the kind of support you wish to bring to the group (offensive / defenseive, for example).

    I really can't wait to run through the explorable dungeons in guild wars and try out the profession / weapon combinations!

    Sorry for the overuse of backslashes ;D

  2. #42
    Janna is funner than Soraka in LoL.

    Prot monks are funner than Healing Monks in GW1.

    Disc is funner than Holy in WoW.

    I'm seeing a trend here.
    Norn Mesmer: GW2
    Rattataki Sniper: SWTOR

  3. #43
    This is all levels of awesome and the way mmo's should be. It promotes people actually learning every aspect of their class and using all the skills available. People can't tunnel, or you die. In GW1, necro wells were amazing support, and healing ele's were pretty annoying, but those aspects added versatility to the game as well as many unknowns.

    As a lock in WOW and a resto druid, healing is boring, easy and repetitive. But the functionality of the lock is more transposed over to GW, just not very well, with a range of support spells.

    Seeing information like this makes me want GW2 to come out tommorow so i can quit life and play.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    I actually look forward to paying (more) attention to the in-game world in combat. I just don't like that I have to dish out damage while doing so. It's probably just a personal quirk, but I like to put my full focus on support, be it putting down wards, giving buffs, CC'ing targets... Actually dealing damage isn't something I truly enjoy.
    Despite this (weird) personal preference I still look forward to playing a Guardian, and I'll probably play it well.
    I agree with you fully here. This is my issue with (PvE) GW2, and why I won't be playing PvE in GW2. I don't like having to focus on damage dealing at any point. To use an example from another game, in League of Legends, I enjoy playing characters like tanky Alistar and support Janna because they provide a ton of control and support. They control the positioning of enemies, provide ambient healing, or block damage taken by allies. Unless you build them heavy AP, their damage is almost totally negligible. They provide very active control and support that requires a lot of situational awareness. You don't have to be a heavy damage dealer in order to have an active playstyle and require high situational awareness, as long as the abilities are designed around these things. Just because the character does not deal noticeable damages does not mean I hang in the back staring at life bars. The problem is that many games like WoW force their support (healer) and control (tank) into very passive playstyles with a lot of abilities that are funneled entirely through the AI, or don't require an active playstyle.

    It's a moot point though, as they have already stated that the design goal is for everyone to be a hybrid DPS. I'll just avoid doing any PvE in GW2. It does get frustrating though trying to explain to people that full support/control characters and an active playstyle / situational awareness are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to be capable of devastating levels of damage for these things to be present.

  5. #45
    This is all speculative, of course. As I said, you're going to do damage in GW2 regardless, but I think someone will be able to focus on support & control, do it very well, and still be a valuable member of a group. Also, don't forget, that a bunch of support and control abilities also do damage.

    Where I think Ynna and I differ is, while I love supporting & controlling, I also like doing damage, because making enemy healthbars go down is essential to any MMO experience, and a dead mob is the ultimate form of control. It's dead.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    This is all speculative, of course. As I said, you're going to do damage in GW2 regardless, but I think someone will be able to focus on support & control, do it very well, and still be a valuable member of a group. Also, don't forget, that a bunch of support and control abilities also do damage.

    Where I think Ynna and I differ is, while I love supporting & controlling, I also like doing damage, because making enemy healthbars go down is essential to any MMO experience, and a dead mob is the ultimate form of control. It's dead.
    I don't think people will be focusing on any of the 3, if ArenaNet designed their combat intuitively, you should have to switch regularly, and have a balance of all 3 within almost every fight.

    They might as well have stuck with the holy trinity, if people are just going to sit back and support, or throw some control into the mix as their only goal in combat. Sure, everyone will be DPSing regardless, because we only have 10 spells, and its impossible to have only support/control spells, and even then most of them contribute some damage.

    I guess what I'm hoping for is, as I've said earlier, in this thread or another here today. I want it to be like soloing stuff as a Mage on WoW. Reactive, quick on your feet, and adaptive, otherwise, its just a repackaged holy trinity.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    This is all speculative, of course. As I said, you're going to do damage in GW2 regardless, but I think someone will be able to focus on support & control, do it very well, and still be a valuable member of a group. Also, don't forget, that a bunch of support and control abilities also do damage.

    Where I think Ynna and I differ is, while I love supporting & controlling, I also like doing damage, because making enemy healthbars go down is essential to any MMO experience, and a dead mob is the ultimate form of control. It's dead.
    Which is honestly how most people feel, and why I think it will work out really well for ANet. I just won't personally be playing it, as it forces me into a playstyle I find incredibly boring (damage dealing).

    I don't mind incidental damage on support and control abilities. I just find abilities who's primary use is to deal damage (raw numbers) to be interesting at all. I'm the person who would rather have an ability that dealt 10% of an enemies health in damage, but stunned them for 3 seconds, than an ability that dealt 50% of their health in damage. I'd rather have a AoE snare ability than an AoE damage ability, even if the damage ability did 10 times the DPS of the snare.

    Of course, I do fully intend to play GW2 PvP, as my tastes in that are a little different.

  8. #48
    With running the risk of getting too heady, in a system like GW2, someone can feel support/control-ey and do damage, while someone can feel damage-y and do support/control, and their actions be nearly identical. I think that is what could make the system so elegant. Because the abilities are so striking, you can have "favorites" of which you identify, be they support, control, or damage, and still use all aspects of your profession, but the "feel" you get from playing is weighted to what you like most.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by thenewzero View Post
    I don't mind incidental damage on support and control abilities. I just find abilities who's primary use is to deal damage (raw numbers) to be interesting at all. I'm the person who would rather have an ability that dealt 10% of an enemies health in damage, but stunned them for 3 seconds, than an ability that dealt 50% of their health in damage. I'd rather have a AoE snare ability than an AoE damage ability, even if the damage ability did 10 times the DPS of the snare.
    1) Most damage dealing abilties do have incidental effects. Read the list of abilities on the wiki, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

    2) If they add the mesmer, then that may be the profession for you.

  10. #50
    The Patient MalazanFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggetmagic View Post
    I don't think people will be focusing on any of the 3, if ArenaNet designed their combat intuitively, you should have to switch regularly, and have a balance of all 3 within almost every fight.

    They might as well have stuck with the holy trinity, if people are just going to sit back and support, or throw some control into the mix as their only goal in combat. Sure, everyone will be DPSing regardless, because we only have 10 spells, and its impossible to have only support/control spells, and even then most of them contribute some damage.

    I guess what I'm hoping for is, as I've said earlier, in this thread or another here today. I want it to be like soloing stuff as a Mage on WoW. Reactive, quick on your feet, and adaptive, otherwise, its just a repackaged holy trinity.
    I completely agree for solo play, but I think in groups you should be able to personalize what you bring, be it by favoring support over damage or just a style of support (defensive or offensive) coupled with the damage you're bringing. If anything I think this should be an option some of the time simply because ANet keeps talking about choices, and I'm sure some RPers out there would like to be a "defensive support" guardian at least some of the time.

  11. #51
    Mechagnome Berteh's Avatar
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    It's such a brilliant idea. Encouraging team play to work towards a greater objective is something that many MMO's have lacked, and I am very glad that GW2 has decided to implement this in its own unique way.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatian View Post
    Disc is funner than Holy in WoW.
    Hey, hey, hey. Non-Discipline is way, way more fun than Discipline.

    Like I said, maybe I'm just weird, but I don't get much satisfaction from making healthbars go down. I'm planning on building my Guardian so he can do a maximum of Support and Control and a minimum of damage and I hope that will be a viable playstyle in both PvE and PvP. I don't want to stand in the back and just heal or buff. I'm going to be in the frontlines, snaring people, putting op wards, debuffing and all that. Being mainly support doesn't mean non-interactivity.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  13. #53
    There's a very solid reason for me why this is important to be gone from MMO's. I don't want to be 'managing healthbars' for every single fight I get into. Throw down some support spells on the floor to help my team out? Sure, but I don't want to be a designated healbot just because I have 1 extra healing spell. (Speaking for Guardian)

  14. #54
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Should I ever enter a group on my warrior or elementalist and people start dictating roles I'm dropping group right then and there.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  15. #55
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbryn View Post
    Should I ever enter a group on my warrior or elementalist and people start dictating roles I'm dropping group right then and there.
    Same, and we know it will happen.

  16. #56
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Same, and we know it will happen.
    While i don't think its something thats gonna be mainstream once people adapt to the playstyle, it's something I see happening early on with players who aren't used to this type of play.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  17. #57
    Anyone who played the Defender Archetype in City of Heroes knows exactly what GW2 is trying to do. Generally speaking, you create debuffs and situations that reduce damage to allow your teammates to survive without direct healing. For example, laying down a sheet of ice so your enemies keep slipping and falling down instead of being able to attack. Or having a tornado constantly whirling around your body pinning enemies into corners, pushing them away, and debuffing their ability to successfully hit you.

    And even CoH dpsers had elements of this. Mostly for soloing, but helpful in group play.

    It really opens up a lot of cool and interesting ways to be a support class (or a class with support abilities) instead of casted vs instant vs AoE vs HoT healing. The potential problem, of course, is balance.

  18. #58
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    Anyone who played the Defender Archetype in City of Heroes knows exactly what GW2 is trying to do. Generally speaking, you create debuffs and situations that reduce damage to allow your teammates to survive without direct healing. For example, laying down a sheet of ice so your enemies keep slipping and falling down instead of being able to attack. Or having a tornado constantly whirling around your body pinning enemies into corners, pushing them away, and debuffing their ability to successfully hit you.

    And even CoH dpsers had elements of this. Mostly for soloing, but helpful in group play.

    It really opens up a lot of cool and interesting ways to be a support class (or a class with support abilities) instead of casted vs instant vs AoE vs HoT healing. The potential problem, of course, is balance.
    ArenaNet won't have a problem with skill balancing after GW 1

  19. #59
    Blademaster Zayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berteh View Post
    It's such a brilliant idea. Encouraging team play to work towards a greater objective is something that many MMO's have lacked, and I am very glad that GW2 has decided to implement this in its own unique way.
    This! I totally agree with you there. I feel Guild Wars 2 will definately bring something new and exciting with this new combat system!

  20. #60
    All i know is that my resto druid wouldn't have to pick up agility leather leftovers from heroic dungeons to be able to do dailies alone as a kitty/bear i think that's what many people forget about, professions that are awesome at soloing AND can support a team with a quick swap of weapons/abilities? yes please. No more "/g anyone wanna do dailies with me please? i'll que for za/zg with you if you help" (<- that happened when i had both resto specs, one for tank heals and one for raid heals, i'm not THAT nooby :[ )

    Actually i loved being versatile on my resto druid, specially after everyone was decently geared and familiar with heroic 5mans i would always help dps (planting 3 shrooms in the middle of 10 mobs = resto druid on top of recount xD) pop into kitty form and quickly interrupt or use stampeding roar to quickly move away from/closer to mobs etc etc.. So this kind of play is right up my alley, and, from what i can tell, other peoples too, which is nice to see

    Also not having to throw away a weekend gaming night because of a missing healer or a tank sounds appealing.

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