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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    the numbers dont lie
    They don't tell the whole story though. There is such a thing as a lie through omission.
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  2. #642
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    They don't tell the whole story though. There is such a thing as a lie through omission.
    This so much. Not to mention, as we have been saying... drivers upon drivers have come out since then and drivers can do A LOT.
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  3. #643
    Warchief Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    and ati drivers are complete crap, what r u smoking?

    Infracted. Post like these will only lead to AMD vs nVidia brand flamewars. Please refer to the Computer-section rules, point 2.
    Last edited by Marest; 2013-01-11 at 01:06 AM.
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  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    thnks for making my case.

    long story short folks msi gtx 680 > msi hd 7970
    No, only that when you added up all of the numbers into one pool, the numbers favor nVidia.

    Bear in mind that that sort of outcome doesn't tell us much.

    Firstly, there are obvious issues with how the number has been formed. As an example, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare has a HUGE bias towards nVidia. Or Civilization 5. Benchmarks like these almost completely invalidate the outcome of "relative performance," because it shows no signs of what you will actually see in day to day scenarios unless you play exactly the same titles in equal amounts.

    Secondly, this was 6 months to 8 month ago. Especially as of late, AMD have been pushing pretty huge improvements across the board, as have nVidia. For anything resembling reality, new benchmarks are required.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 01:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    the numbers dont lie
    Don't pull that sort of bullshit. I gave you those numbers. You did not make any argument with any kind of information, and claiming anything else is frankly offensive.

  5. #645
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    and ati drivers are complete crap, what r u smoking?
    First of all, sure ATi drivers are crap, because ATi no longer exists buddy.

    AMD drivers, have actually shown themselves to not be crap.

    You know you're only hurting your credibility when you say things like this.
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  6. #646

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...ormance/1.html
    These are the results after AMD released their 12.11 driver which was a huge performance boost.
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  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    First of all, sure ATi drivers are crap, because ATi no longer exists buddy.

    AMD drivers, have actually shown themselves to not be crap.

    You know you're only hurting your credibility when you say things like this.
    This conversation is strikingly similar to an earlier one, starting here.
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  8. #648
    Warchief Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    the hostility is quite similar too
    Milk was a bad choice.

    2013 MMO-Champion User of the Year (2nd runner up)

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    the hostility is quite similar too
    You're only bringing it on yourself when you throw arbitrary claims out there without arguments.

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    ur comparing two reference cards. the cards im comparing are not reference.
    I don't understand why people compare factory OC cards to base their GPU of choice on. Sure a factory OC 670 can be faster than a 680. But that doesn't make the GTX680 slower. Imho, only GHZ edition amd's get the benefit of the doubt, the rest should just be compared stock for performance, and then per brand who has the better OC results (i.e. ASUS DCII, MSI TwinFrozrs). I've had this discussion on multiple techboards and this just doesn't seem to stick..

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    I don't understand why people compare factory OC cards to base their GPU of choice on. Sure a factory OC 670 can be faster than a 680. But that doesn't make the GTX680 slower. Imho, only GHZ edition amd's get the benefit of the doubt, the rest should just be compared stock for performance, and then per brand who has the better OC results (i.e. ASUS DCII, MSI TwinFrozrs). I've had this discussion on multiple techboards and this just doesn't seem to stick..
    I'd compare OC ones... if enough different benchmarks (good ones like Anandtech's) were actually available. ._.
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  12. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    I'd compare OC ones... if enough different benchmarks (good ones like Anandtech's) were actually available. ._.
    I meant factory OC cards vs reference cards. It's bad because you can have the same milage on your reference 680. And get equal the performance gain on it. Making the difference the same as stock vs stock. Hence it's no fair comparisson.

  13. #653
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    To be fair, reference GTX 6xx cards don't have much support for overclocking or voltage-tweaking, as NVidia thinks all of their customers are 5 year olds who shouldn't be allowed to do as they please with the big boy toys they buy as adults. ;p
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  14. #654
    I think you need to compare the cards that are up for question, if it is a reference clocked card or factory overclocked card doesn't matter.
    You make comparisons based on the performance the card has when you pull it out of the box, no one can guarantee that you can overclock either card even 5MHz, it might be likely but there just are no guarantees.
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  15. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0cturnal View Post
    I think you need to compare the cards that are up for question, if it is a reference clocked card or factory overclocked card doesn't matter.
    You make comparisons based on the performance the card has when you pull it out of the box, no one can guarantee that you can overclock either card even 5MHz, it might be likely but there just are no guarantees.
    Well, yeah. I'm not saying I'm not against just comparing reference cards, but if you look back a page or two, you will see this whole fiasco was started with Ron Burgundy saying Marest should replace the MSI Lightning 7970 with an MSI Lightning 680.
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  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Well, yeah. I'm not saying I'm not against just comparing reference cards, but if you look back a page or two, you will see this whole fiasco was started with Ron Burgundy saying Marest should replace the MSI Lightning 7970 with an MSI Lightning 680.
    Yeah I know, all I'm saying is that there is no reason to separate reference and non-reference cards, when you are to buy a card the choice comes down to a few cards and the only proper way to compare them are by the performance you get from them out of the box.
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  17. #657
    TOTALLY NOT
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    I find overclocked cards in relation to the competitors as useless information.

    The proper way to measure would be to compare it to other within its family to see how well it overclocks, and then compare the absolute improvement to the opposition and, maybe maybe maybe, perhaps find out how far that family overclocks on average (ie, a sample size and pushing them all to the max) and then compare them to how well the other side overclocks.

    7900-series, even the GHz 7970 overclocks better than the GTX 680, and its memory overclocking scales better due to the wider membus.
    GTX 600-series respond really well to memory overclocking, which is where they are held back to begin with, its their true 'bottleneck' - memoryspeeds.

    That said, both are good cards. I have a GTX 680 and it works fine for what I do with it (watch movies). :P The HD7950 is what really shines though, especially when it comes to overclocking and how far above stock you can go in performance boosts.

  18. #658
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Take my 560 Ti and watch movies with that... I want a 680. Q.Q
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  19. #659
    Woah, what just happened. Did Tetris say to use overclockability as part of the comparison? Man, I remember back in some HD 7970 discussions I was told to only compare at stock by you guys. :|

  20. #660
    TOTALLY NOT
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    I'm not sure what I actually ended up saying (I derail myself in my train of thoughts so commonly I often change sentence mid-sentence, meaning I end being quite confusing).
    My intention was to say, it's hard to factor in overclocking since the chips overclock so much differently, and the stock values are either nominal at best, or so differing in attempts to push it between red and green teams (making an example up out of thin air here), like a DirectCuII on the GTX 660 Ti perhaps have a 200MHz overclock wheras the comparable from AMD might just have a DirectCuII HD7950 with a 30MHz overclock.
    In short, it's too... flukey. You can compare one cards absolute performance over another cards absolute performance, but then you (general you, not specific on anyone) can't make conclusions like GTX 660 Ti > HD7950, but rather Direct Cu II 660 Ti > Direct Cu II 7950.
    While doing this in ever scenario is more accurate, going down to compare them down to this specifics is going to be an exhausting endeavor with too little information posted, unless you just scale up the percentages.

    In other words, too much of a headache unless someone's compared two specific cards head-to-head in the same review.
    * shrugs

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