Divine Hymn Buffed

[jifjosh]

If you aren't low mana as a holy priest compared to other healers, then the other healers won't have low enough mana for the buff to hit them either. You save it for when all the healers are low mana. That arcane mage getting mana isn't going to keep the raid alive.

You can only use it once a fight. So, you use it when it will effect the most important people will be guaranteed to get the buff.

If that arcane mage can go apeshit for just that little bit longer and receive the benefit of the improved mana pool from HOH (which affects replenishment? and also their mage armor???) then yes, it benefits the raid because they can do more damage. When used at 80% of the encounter it's like you dropped a couple mana pots on the mana users and took them back to 85% or 90% of the boss' health. If you can't see why this is useful when used properly then you really should stop now.

[Afflictid]

You are wrong man. I don't know how else to explain it to you... but you are wrong.

[Milky]

I don't know why this is becoming a Hymn of Hope thread :P Hymn of Hope is MUCH better utility than Innervate. No discussion about that. Plus, I'm not worried about my raid spot, as I play both classes with multiple specs. Please don't drag this into the discussion, as it's pointless.

What I'm trying to point out is that resto druids will probably be sat by top-end guilds due to other healing specs being able to provide more than the resto druid can.

So because another class has the same utility, it isn't utility? Fail logic is fail.

Who else can aoe speed boost the entire raid? (which is required on rag)

Tree of Life effects healing mechanics drastically. Lifebloom can be applied to as many people as you want. Instant cast Regrowths. Wild Growth hits more targets.

Resto is the only healing spec with replenishment.

Battle rez is battle rez.

If that utility can be provided by someone else, who can do generally better than your spec, then why should a guild give you a spot? Shamans of all specs want to have a word with you.

By changing mechanics drastically, and having Lifebloom applied with no target limit, i hope you mean it's a mana-saving cooldown, like I said earlier. It's only strength comes when you need to heal multiple targets taking constant damage (2 tanks perhaps). Instant Regrowths sure are nice, but you won't find much use for that either. Everything about Tree of Life is about more throughput, and that's excellent for a druid since that's its current niche.

You don't need a resto druid to provide replenishment. That's just silly. Druids have been benched in 4.1, and it's quite possible it will happen again in 4.3.
And Rebirth can not only be provided by other druid specs, but by two other classes.

As for inspiration, it won't be your goal as a holy priest to keep 100% uptime of the buff on your tank, but even without caring, you'll have decent uptime from random heals.

Like I said, holy priests have been benched or have been asked to play discipline in 4.2, and I really hate that. I'm still conviced, however, that's it's due to flawed encounter design and not holy being a weak spec. I just don't want to see another healing spec being benched (again) due to their spec and not their ability as healers. Anyway, The buff is more than welcome on my part, but if druids remain the way things they are on the PTR, you won't see many resto druids pushing for hardmodes early on in 4.3. On a more positive note, resto shamans get a unique buff of their own, which will probably be desired, and guilds would take at least 1 resto shaman because of that unique buff, so horray for them!

Finally, I agree with you Benea on that holy priest mana efficiency is dwarfed by that of a resto druid. It's disgusting how much a resto druid's mana regen scales with gear (intellect). Most druids with good gear are currently reforging OUT of spirit, stacking haste to the breakpoint cap and then boosting their mastery as much as possible, meaning even much more throughput! Let's hope the mana reduction on Sactuary can be of some help

[Afflictid]

Holy priests don't have the same utility as resto druids, so why would resto druids be benched for holy priests? Priest utility is used on like.... maybe 1 fight. I don't even get inspiration as a holy priest.

Druids aren't going to be benched because holy priests got a raid cooldown. HoT healing in itself is a utility that no one else even comes CLOSE to.

[Mazi]

Holy priests don't have the same utility as resto druids, so why would resto druids be benched for holy priests? Priest utility is used on like.... maybe 1 fight. I don't even get inspiration as a holy priest.

Druids aren't going to be benched because holy priests got a raid cooldown. HoT healing in itself is a utility that no one else even comes CLOSE to.

Correct. Now neither will be benched and true healer synergy will have returned. Your best healing comp is going to include a Disc, Holy Priest, Resto Shaman, Resto Druid, Paladin and then x of whatever because EVERYONE brings something to the table. In 4.2 a Holy Priest was just a burst (flat instead of hot) healing Resto Druid without a cooldown.

[Afflictid]

Exactly Mazi. So druids need to stop freaking out.

[Kelesti]

Lightwell is awesome. If used. This never ever happens. Ever. I am not kidding. I am currently planning to make an addon giving +10% rep with my character every time someone clicks the ligthwell. Just to get people in my guild to use it. But they probably wont anyway. So then what is the point? The talent is safe to specc out of. Noone ever uses it.

I think there's enough people that are on our boards that would love to disagree with you on this, Danner. Heck, I've even glyphed it, for a 10-man and can ensure the charges are used well instead of just by people trolling. Mazi, Cephius, we've actually had a couple threads here a little while ago about "how can I get my guild to use it", and one of the things that came up was "Use it as a cooldown. Drop it early, off to the side, and let everyone know out loud that's where it is, and when they're supposed to click it."

You use Audibles for "Use barrier now, use Paladin thingy after". There's nothing wrong with "Next explosion, click the Lightwell", just so long as you tell people.

And as for Hymn of Hope... it is basically an innervate divided amongst an entire raid. It is used solely to boost the returns of the shadowfiend by 10%. Other than that, it virtually does nothing because the returns are so incredibly low. A surefire sign of desperation in the raid is when the priests start casting this spell due to needing mana. You are officially in trouble if they do, and will wipe very soon.

You are wrong man. I don't know how else to explain it to you... but you are wrong.

Not quite. You're not seeing the big picture. On a fight like Ragnaros, I can easily get off two hymns. And tying it to a Power Surge proc (and even Lightweave if you're really lucky and can snag both). One doesn't have to be OoM to use the spell and actually benefit from it. One just has to not be dumb.

Infact, when Intellect Procs start stacking up, your mana deficit is big enough that you guarantee the first tick of Hymn of Hope. But not only do you guarantee that first tick, but thanks to the increased mana pool, you keep the stacks flowing in your direction, off the first hymn. The second one's easy.

You want to talk about flawed design regarding mana cooldowns? Shaman. Holy Priests get more benefit from Mana Tide than the Shaman do. Next patch, this is true for Holy Paladins too, and it's the Shaman's mana cooldown. The fact that people don't know how to use Hymn until it's too late, well, that's not really the design's fault. That's your own.

[nevermore]

I don't even know what the fuss is about, Holy Priests have probably the lowest amount of raid utility. Remember when we were hoping to get the Concentration Aura-clone so we would at least have something? And then Shamans got it which was a massive /facepalm
Resto Druids have nothing to "fear".

[Kelesti]

Exactly Mazi. So druids need to stop freaking out.

You're the one freaking out here.

[Afflictid]

Really? Cause all I see is complaining that druids will be benched, and I am saying they won't be. Whatever vendetta you have against me needs to stop Kel, it is really unprofessional.

So there is one fight you can use Hymn of Hope twice. Good job. 99% of other fights you can't. It is better to preplan before with the other healers and priests when you will be popping HoH.

[Kelesti]

Really? Cause all I see is complaining that druids will be benched, and I am saying they won't be. Whatever vendetta you have against me needs to stop Kel, it is really unprofessional.

You're right. I'm sorry that I'm confusing some of your arguments with someone who used to come here, make the same arguments (albeit illiterately. His name was Nocturna, but his "crusades" were discipline based), and was just wondering why people don't get it. Part of it may be because I don't feel the need to be at war with the other specs, or see that "they have something we don't". I also tend to look at the bigger picture instead of microscoping, which shows how we aren't really that bad off (also that we're not the "only spec without Int based regen").

So there is one fight you can use Hymn of Hope twice. Good job. 99% of other fights you can't. It is better to preplan before with the other healers and priests when you will be popping HoH.

The hardest fight in the tier is the only one that matters. Am I wrong in making that assessment? And yes, it scales quite well when you can chain them together. The point wasn't that it doesn't. The point was that if I'm the only one using it, I can still actually get a decent chunk of mana from it. This is true. Or that I can pop it to get my Shaman's mana back up after he Reincarnates with nothing, and it gives more than an Innervate does. We have utility.

[Afflictid]

I never said we didn't have utility. Milky was arguing that druids will be replaced by us because of our utility. I said druids have a completely different type of utility so they wouldn't be sat. I don't see what the problem with my statement is.

[Danner]

Kelesti:

I got that glyph too
In fact, I make a point of always placing that lightwell. We do have a tank that is very good at using it. He's sadly the only one actually doing so. It feels like a horrible waste of a cooldown since noone ever uses it, but... meh. It's part of my buff rotation now. And every little bit of healing helps. Though we're talking really small here.

Holypriests do have some neat utility. My personal favourite is Body & Soul. Lifegrip I am having more trouble using, and it didn't help that our raidleader banned the use of lifegrip, but it's pretty neat too. But that's really the only utility I really care about. You can take my lightwell, my improved death and my mass dispel and I would not really care too much. It's already talents and abilities I am having a hard time justifying taking, except that the alternatives are even worse.

There is nothing in there that should make a druid cry out about unfairness. When druids have been sat for a holypriest throughput the ages, it has always been because holypriests did notably more HPS. This was true in vanilla, and true during the CoH days in BT/very early wrath. Similarly, noone will sit a holypriest for a druid just because the druid has replenishment and rebirth. These things, just like speed shields, are just a bonus. You deal with not having it. We're no longer in every-healer-must-be-a-shaman sunwell mode, luckily. What matters is whether the healer can do the job, and whether the player is an annoying twat or not.

*probably sat because he's an annoying twat since 2006*

[Lirynd]

glad tht i will be able to make use of this smart heal more often! bfr, i cld only use it once in encounters becus of it's lengthy cd, i was quite a waste of a nice spell