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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    I don't think Bioware is all that brilliant. Other than Mass Effect and Baldur's gate, I didn't think their other games were all that fantastic. Recently, I'm more interested in games that don't have 10 choices of dialogue that you just pick so KOTOR and Dragon Age 1 did not interest me as much as the Mass Effect franchise (although it is hard to deny that they were pretty good). They attempt to MassEffectify Dragon Age II was an incredible failure to me, I thought that game was some utter trash. I have yet to find a Blizzard game that I felt was utter trash though.
    Dragon Age 1 was extremely good. Of course, after Dragon Age 2, you have to wonder if the greatness of the first installment was just blind luck, or maybe they're "going in a different direction"... Jade Empire was pretty good too. Personally, I would say their worst games ever are Neverwinter Nights 1 (NWN2 was done by Obsidian, and was actually quite good) and Dragon Age 2. It is a little troubling that one of their worst games is their most recent release.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolisa View Post
    You are ignoring the essential detail that the whole Warcraft fanbase was of course already accustomed and interested in playing Warcraft computer games, while only a small portion of the Star Wars fan base is accustomed or interested in playing Star Wars games.



    I guess the indicator will be whether SW:TOR continues gaining subscribers after launch at an increasing pace or not, and whether it will be projected to surpass WoW's market share in 2-3 years (both are unlikely, IMHO).
    em WOWs meaningful "market share" is only about 2 million in both the EU and US (it only makes around 6% of its profits from the entire Asian operation and most of its profits come from those 4-5 million EU and US subscribers).

    to equal WoW in terms of business important numbers SW:TOR only has to get about 2 million in both the EU and US.

    its aimed at getting 1 million in each and already has over 2 million registered on its official forums.

    to place a bet that it won't at least equal WoW in 2-3 years is....a brave bet.

    especially given the trending in WoW subscriptions and what a SW:TOR expansion could offer up (like full space flight and combat).

    anyway this game does not have to beat WoW to alter the market for the better. only compete.

    monopolies are not good for consumers.
    they result in arrogant and lazy development.
    both of which it can be argued you see evident in WoW.

    if WoW gets a truly viable competitor in the market you'll likely see a lot more flexibility and content as well.

    its not an either/or game.

    by Blizzards own reckoning the potential mainstream western mmo market is at least 30 million
    (going by the number of people who have tried WoW but chosen not to play it)
    Last edited by sleekit; 2011-11-01 at 04:35 AM.
    Mannoroth nodded. "The warrior shows much promise... I would see more of his kind, learn their potential..." WoTA

    gee thx Brox...

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolisa View Post
    You are ignoring the essential detail that the whole Warcraft fanbase was of course already accustomed and interested in playing Warcraft computer games, while only a small portion of the Star Wars fan base is accustomed or interested in playing Star Wars games.



    I guess the indicator will be whether SW:TOR continues gaining subscribers after launch at an increasing pace or not, and whether it will be projected to surpass WoW's market share in 2-3 years (both are unlikely, IMHO).
    Does it matter what fanbase had what % interested in games? You are still ignoring the fact that Star Wars in itself has not only the movie/book fan base that has decades into it, but almost a decade of gaming fans as well. From the entire KOTOR series to the Battlefront series, hell even Lego, Clone Wars, Force Unleashed series etc etc. No matter how you would like to look at it you simply can't ignore that the gaming base is there.

    Now on an MMO level Star Wars has proven to be a hit in a previous release. WoW was it's first. We are arguing semantics here, but I am not ignoring that Warcrafts base was gamers to begin with but you most certainly aren't giving any credit to the amount of gamers and even previous MMO Star Wars gamers that may or are coming to the table for SW:TOR.

    And yet again, why are you comparing subs to WoW? They can coexist, you do realize this right? Let alone you are comparing a number you are pulling out of a hat based on speculation. Not a good way to end a debate post. Again, the game is a success if the overhead cost is nullified by it's profit margin. Please re-read the bold.

    Quick edit here: Your right a smaller percent of Star Wars is really interested about the games. However when your fan base "probably" surpasses the 100 million mark. That percentage becomes a large number quickly.
    Last edited by Auminer; 2011-11-01 at 04:26 AM.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by sleekit View Post
    its aimed at getting 1 million in each and already has over 2 million registered on its official forums.
    Heh, at the same time, one must wonder how many of those are dummy accounts created by people hoping to have a better chance of getting into beta.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Auminer View Post
    Again, the game is a success if the overhead cost is nullified by it's profit margin. Please re-read the bold.
    Yeah, but to most of the ragers on this forum it won't be a "success" unless it kills WoW.

    You have to consider context.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarGar View Post
    Heh, at the same time, one must wonder how many of those are dummy accounts created by people hoping to have a better chance of getting into beta.
    Yep, seems like a lot of people I know are always casually discussing how they have 5 or 10 or 15 SW:TOR forums accts.

  6. #426
    i haven't really seen many "ragers" on this forum except for people who think WoW is threatened by SW:TOR...
    Mannoroth nodded. "The warrior shows much promise... I would see more of his kind, learn their potential..." WoTA

    gee thx Brox...

  7. #427
    Oh, by "this forum" I meant MMO-Champion as a whole, I think most of them are in the WoW forums actually.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Sighz View Post
    Competition is always good. I personally hope WoW doesn't die so BW has to work hard to keep subs, which means better content.
    will take a lot to kill wow like i said in another topic wow could go down to 2 million subs and still be very profitable and this is my opinion but i cant see any game other then blizzards yet to be announced mmo codenamed titan getting a vast majority of the wow userbase

  9. #429
    it doesn't have to take away WoW players to equal WoW (at least in the US and EU where they really count) tho some people will undoubtedly jump ship.

    there was an interview about a year or so ago with Rob Pardo (the Executive Vice President of Game Design at Blizzard) where he talked about the number of people who had bought WoW but decided not to play it.

    he said that number was at least 3 times the current "subscriber" base. given that at the time by Blizzards own measurements the "subscriber" base would be at least 10 million that means that there are, in Blizzards own opinion, 30 million plus people who bought their MMO to try it out but decided not to play it.

    that means the potential MMO market is far larger than most people think it is.
    far larger than WoW and almost big enough for 4 WoWs to sit side by side.
    Last edited by sleekit; 2011-11-01 at 04:48 AM.
    Mannoroth nodded. "The warrior shows much promise... I would see more of his kind, learn their potential..." WoTA

    gee thx Brox...

  10. #430
    I thought that in that interview he was talking more about people who used to play WoW but have quit, not necessarily trials who decided not to subscribe (as you make it sound, but maybe I'm misinterpreting). Either way, tons of people have quit WoW. Most of the people still playing WoW at this point are pretty dedicated to it. I bet Diablo 3 ends up being bigger competition for subscriptions for SW:TOR than WoW, the two of them will have to fight it out for all those people who are always looking for the "WoW replacement".

  11. #431
    2 points to that

    1stly afaik Diablo 3 isnt subscription based.

    2ndly only on a forum devoted to a Blizzard game do you meet people who think an isometric hack & slash dungeon crawler is a direct competitor to completely different type of game ie. your Blizzard fanboi is showing.
    Last edited by sleekit; 2011-11-01 at 04:55 AM.
    Mannoroth nodded. "The warrior shows much promise... I would see more of his kind, learn their potential..." WoTA

    gee thx Brox...

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by sleekit View Post
    1stly afaik Diablo 3 isnt subscription based
    True, what I meant is, if people decide to play Diablo 3 as "their game", they probably won't bother with an SW:TOR subscription.

    Anyway, my comment is based on actual personal experience talking to people I play games with. Quite a lot of them seem to be debating which game(s) they'll play long-term, and it's between WoW, Diablo 3, or SW:TOR.

  13. #433
    The Patient Meezo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighz View Post
    Competition is always good. I personally hope WoW doesn't die so BW has to work hard to keep subs, which means better content.
    indeed competition is always good, make dem on their toes witch is good for us =)

  14. #434
    Honestly SWTOR sales come from it being KOTOR kinda game not from it being an mmo.
    SW rpg games is what most fan want and bioware is doing that but making it mmo wise in hope of you playing after you finish the story as well and giving you co op ability.
    I could hardly imagine SWTOR having strong pvp or pve and thus it will not even compete with wow imo, it might get few subs out of wow but it will get few subs into wow ( ppl playing boiware games buy swtor realize they want an mmo for the raiding side of it and switch to wow )
    Until blizzard ups there in game story telling, player interaction and decision making wow will not even be comparable to swtor and on the same hand until swtor proves it has a hard and balanced pve endgame, balanced pvp and the ability to be a game where you stay up 5 hours to kill a boss with your guild it won't be comparable with wow.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Aterons View Post
    and the ability to be a game where you stay up 5 hours to kill a boss with your guild it won't be comparable with wow.
    qft.

    The TOR "operations" are going to have to be something real special to compete with some of the astonishing designs Blizzard has created in the past. Ulduar and Sunwell come to mind as strokes of 25 player brilliance.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckybeer View Post
    qft.

    The TOR "operations" are going to have to be something real special to compete with some of the astonishing designs Blizzard has created in the past. Ulduar and Sunwell come to mind as strokes of 25 player brilliance.
    yet now the best Blizz has to offer via their trailer is pandas. While the past is important it is what Blizz is doing in the future that matters more than what they have done in the past.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    I don't think Bioware is all that brilliant. Other than Mass Effect and Baldur's gate, I didn't think their other games were all that fantastic. Recently, I'm more interested in games that don't have 10 choices of dialogue that you just pick so KOTOR and Dragon Age 1 did not interest me as much as the Mass Effect franchise (although it is hard to deny that they were pretty good). They attempt to MassEffectify Dragon Age II was an incredible failure to me, I thought that game was some utter trash. I have yet to find a Blizzard game that I felt was utter trash though.
    You're entitled to that, but I'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong. We can base this off of my personal preference, sales for BioWare games, general opinion on these forums, or whatever. Not every company puts out 9-10/10 every time. Dragon Age 2 was quite shitty, especially compared to the first. However, for every DA2, I can name you 5 amazing BioWare games.

    Now, you don't like a lot of choices in dialogue, great. I don't like shit quests, where you basically just hit accept and run to the shiny area on the map without caring why you're killing 10 of these miners for their rusty picks. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but when you go off of sales alone, I'd say a lot of people would strongly disagree on BioWare not being 'brilliant'.

    They aren't the type of developers to just keel over and fall if SWTOR comes with an innovative feature. They will just incorporate it in a better way. Also, the lore for World of Warcraft still has some juice left. I won't stop till Sargeras drops dead at my feet. Unless my enemy in Star Wars is Darth Vader (and it can't be unless they do some crazy shit), it won't hold the same level of allure to me. I want to be a hero same level as Luke. WoW definitely gave me that feel during Arthas (at least it did before fucking Cataclysm and this random dragon).
    Most people (the sane ones) don't really care if they keel over. They just want to play a game that, to them, is better.

    "incorporating innovative features it in a better way" is certainly a topic of debate. Like with DA2, if you name me 1 good thing Blizz has snatched from another game and made it better, I can probably name 5 they've messed up on, or promised and didn't bother with.

    A very common opinion, even among current WoW players today, is that the Lore has been raped over and over again. When I played in Vanilla and TBC, I loved the story. Things started taking a turn, for me, during Wrath.. and went out the poop chute in Cata. I guess that would depend on how much a person cares about Lore, how much they know about it beyond the game (books and such), and how biased they are towards the company.

    I'm not turning this into a hate on Blizzard post. I honestly don't hate them, nor do I wish their business model any ill will. I find it both odd, and amusing, that the biggest Fanboy race ever was announced shortly after SWTOR's release date, for BOTH factions. I find it even funnier that so many perks were offered just for people to keep their WoW subs active for the next year. To me, that says that SWTOR has already succeeded.
    Formerly known here as Nakaya_Kilrogg.
    I don't play Nak anymore, I'm not on Kilrogg, and
    I haven't played WoW seriously since the end of LK.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
    True, what I meant is, if people decide to play Diablo 3 as "their game", they probably won't bother with an SW:TOR subscription.

    Anyway, my comment is based on actual personal experience talking to people I play games with. Quite a lot of them seem to be debating which game(s) they'll play long-term, and it's between WoW, Diablo 3, or SW:TOR.
    ye well in the perhaps wider MMO centric circles i move in on the net those 3 would be SW:TOR, GW2 and possibly Tera.
    Mannoroth nodded. "The warrior shows much promise... I would see more of his kind, learn their potential..." WoTA

    gee thx Brox...

  19. #439
    Blademaster Aenwyrm's Avatar
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    Here's my opinion on SWTOR. If it is successful, then all the Blizz haters, along with the whiny children and fed-up trolls will most likely stay gone. If it isn't however, then I look forward to seeing all of their negative comments coming back to bite them in the butt when they come back to WoW, supposing they don't stay gone and head for
    another game.

    But either way I don't care what happens.
    "Remember when trade conversation had to do with bartering goods and services? Pepperidge Farm remembers..."

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by RetributionPaladin View Post
    I think for once Blizzard will go back to their roots and sink or swim out of their current complacency.
    Complacency? You mean that thing where they're giving people an "appearance tab", a "monk" class, and "pandarens", which all 3 are some of the most commonly requested or pitched features that have appeared on WoW forums everywhere?

    I honestly hate people.

    SW:tOR could be successful, but I have little hope for it given SWG's failure. People are making a big deal about the voice-acted cast...ooh, that totally makes gameplay fun.
    Now, THIS thing? THIS thing is horrible. It's just awful. It was awful at 60 and it was awful at 58. It's awful at 45. If this dropped off a mob in Wailing Caverns when you were level 17 and being run through by a higher level character, you would equip it ONLY because you don't have trinkets at that level, and it would STILL SUCK.
    -Wowhead user on the Lion Horn of Stormwind, an epic from the era of so-called "EPIC" epics.

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