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  1. #601
    Stood in the Fire Nihilim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valaras View Post
    Bioware recently produced Dragon Age 2, a horrible game. So until I actually get to play ToR, I will continue to be skeptical about how successful it can actually be.
    Bioware also recently produced Mass Effect 2 which was an amazing game. So I can't wait to get to play TOR, because I won't be skeptical about how successful it will be.
    Of lips of splendor and tongues of deceit

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilim View Post
    Bioware also recently produced Mass Effect 2 which was an amazing game. So I can't wait to get to play TOR, because I won't be skeptical about how successful it will be.
    Ooooo, proof by contrapositive. @Istaril got owned by math logic

  3. #603
    I would have to agree that the only way to truly judge the game is to have the opportunity to play it yourself for a little while.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifro View Post
    I would have to agree that the only way to truly judge the game is to have the opportunity to play it yourself for a little while.
    That would be the case for single player games; however, it's an mmo, so you've got to play more than a "little while" to be able to at least semi objectively judge it.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Nev12 View Post
    That would be the case for single player games; however, it's an mmo, so you've got to play more than a "little while" to be able to at least semi objectively judge it.
    I guess a "little while" is probably a bit relative. Generally it would make it seem like a couple of days at most. In this particular case I meant more along the lines of at least getting 1 max level character in order to get a feel for what the game has to offer.

  6. #606
    Over 9000! The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefchorizo View Post
    if tor is successful then it would be a good thing for wow. we might end up getting the things we want for wow like updated models for the old races and actual bound on account items.
    ToR shows no new ideas that will spurr Blizzard, it's why I find this a hilariously naive concept, WoW won't suddenly change because they don't need to, ToR is just following their plans, not the other way around.
    "What do you seek within the mountain?"

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    ToR shows no new ideas that will spurr Blizzard, it's why I find this a hilariously naive concept, WoW won't suddenly change because they don't need to, ToR is just following their plans, not the other way around.
    If you think so lowly of SWTOR, why do you keep posting in TOR forums?

    WoW ran out of ideas long ago, their last innovation was bringing authenticators from banking to gaming. That was 2 years ago.

    Now their R&D department consists of doing what other games are doing. They spent the last year removing class specific quest chains, and now all of a sudden class stories are important for MoP?

    It's one thing if you bring actual details to discuss, but throwing out vague swipes at other games without justification isn't showing your full potential. WoW's MoP is dragging in pretty much what other games are doing. They used to bring their own ideas, but now this isn't the case (room for a different forum thread).

    Please stop bringing up WoW did this, Blizzard did that into everything. We get it, you like a proven game and like to ridicule games not out yet.

    Have high hopes for the future, or don't. But if you don't, please stop trying to bring everyone down?

  8. #608
    why feed an obvious troll

  9. #609
    Over 9000! The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karteli View Post
    If you think so lowly of SWTOR, why do you keep posting in TOR forums?

    WoW ran out of ideas long ago, their last innovation was bringing authenticators from banking to gaming. That was 2 years ago.

    Now their R&D department consists of doing what other games are doing. They spent the last year removing class specific quest chains, and now all of a sudden class stories are important for MoP?

    It's one thing if you bring actual details to discuss, but throwing out vague swipes at other games without justification isn't showing your full potential. WoW's MoP is dragging in pretty much what other games are doing. They used to bring their own ideas, but now this isn't the case (room for a different forum thread).

    Please stop bringing up WoW did this, Blizzard did that into everything. We get it, you like a proven game and like to ridicule games not out yet.

    Have high hopes for the future, or don't. But if you don't, please stop trying to bring everyone down?
    Because as strange as it stands, I am not against ToR, not fully anyway.

    It has an interesting premise, and I would enjoy playing it, but I don't like falling to hype, I did it with WAR and I did it with Conan. I'd rather be negative to the game, be proven wrong and come out happy than get all hyped up and it's just another conan game and get annoyed that I spent all that time and money for naught.

    I want the game to be good, I really do, but until then I will it back and doubt the hell out of it so it looks better in the end if I am wrong.
    "What do you seek within the mountain?"

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Because as strange as it stands, I am not against ToR, not fully anyway.

    It has an interesting premise, and I would enjoy playing it, but I don't like falling to hype, I did it with WAR and I did it with Conan. I'd rather be negative to the game, be proven wrong and come out happy than get all hyped up and it's just another conan game and get annoyed that I spent all that time and money for naught.

    I want the game to be good, I really do, but until then I will it back and doubt the hell out of it so it looks better in the end if I am wrong.
    So, talk about the good stuff then. What makes you interested?

    I fell for Warhammer too btw. It was interesting, but my final days were spent sending complaint bugs/suggestions/tickets to Mythic back to back. No kidding I sent about 100. The game was not ready for release - I didn't read the forums, I didn't need anyone to tell me this, I knew it by playing it. I did like their PVP though, the best part of the game.

    Buuutttt... that was then. No reason to be negative so soon. If the game goes out and has issues, by all means let it out. Why assume it's gonna suck before it even comes out? Warhammer was rushed, even when it was released people knew it was rushed. SWTOR took it's sweet time, however.

    I know BioWare is bustin' tail to make it work, I saw the last patch notes (oops someone posted them on MMO-C but they were deleted fast) and they were impressive, the detail involved.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    ToR shows no new ideas that will spurr Blizzard, it's why I find this a hilariously naive concept, WoW won't suddenly change because they don't need to, ToR is just following their plans, not the other way around.
    even if none of the ideas in swtor spurr wow, if it is successful and tons of people drop off of wow for swtor, then wow will have to kick up it's game and start throwing more stuff people want in, and try harder to enhance the game with real features other then pokemon.

  12. #612
    The thing is if swtor is successful, it would be a blessing for people that are gonna play it or people that'll play another mmo. Gamers would have another good choice, wow, rift and the rest would have a new good competitor that would make them try harder. I only see pros, I can't understand the whole arguement wow vs rift vs swtor vs GW2

  13. #613
    To me, MoP is just a sign of desperation from Blizzard. They see that GW2 and SWTOR are gaining so many followers because of what they are based around, so they try to bring it into the new expansion. The biggest indicator was when Monks was announced to have no Auto Attack, then I just stopped reading the other changes and said goodbye to my WoW subscription. Sorry if it offends anyone, but that is how I see it.

    SWTOR will be a major hit at launch, I just hope BioWare will be able to live up to the hype in the long run. Remains to be seen, of course, but it is looking promising. I have played so many MMOs in the past, Aion, AoC, WAR, SWG and plenty others (Aion is an amazing game it's just the grind to top lvl that's so insanely dull). The worst thing about those games was that, after playing WoW, trying out those other games the moving of your character, combat, ability reaction speed etc. all felt incredibly sluggish and slow. I hear that SWTOR will have the same movement and fighting "feel" as when pushing buttons in WoW, which is a system that I absolutely love. The RPG elements in SWTOR aswell is something that we have not seen before in other games. WoW failed in all respects to create a proper immersive RPG experience, so it's more of an MMOG instead of an MMORPG.

    SWTOR draws also a lot of people in because of nostalgia; they have heard about Star Wars, seen the movies or read the novels, so they are more prone to begin playing, but keeping them playing is all up to BioWare and the average player today bitches about EVERYTHING. If this game came out fully costumized to just 1 player (let's call him Max), Max would still find SOMETHING to complain about. The only thing BioWare can do is suffer through the whining of others and do their best to create a good environment that keeps as many people as possible happy. And from my previous experience with BioWare, they will do just that.

    People seems to be tossing around the comment "BioWare has no experience in making MMOs therefore SWTOR will fail", this statement is incredibly ignorant. I wonder how much experience Blizzard had with MMOs before they made WoW, probably none at all. They might have had some decent idea on what it would be like, but that was far from what they would really face. Blizzard has now had many years of experience which is why WoW is still so popular.
    Just don't forget, Blizzard was amatures with MMOs at one point too, and they have made the most succesful MMO to date. So let's not doom SWTOR just based on that.
    Last edited by Drihan; 2011-11-04 at 09:17 PM.

  14. #614
    <Snip> NDA
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-11-04 at 09:58 PM.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezarr View Post
    as for being a success, i dont see how it wont be. people want a new game so bad that they fail to realise that TOR is simply an unpolished wow res-kinned. It will take months if not years to get the game as polished as WoW,
    WoW's been out for six motherfucking years! Do you remember the first six months of live, because I sure do. Bending down to loot, nothing happening, so you move around in circles.. sliding on bended knee. They've had YEARS to polish and tweak, after an extremely bad and bug-filled release, and became the best MMO of it's day. Will SWTOR be as polished as WoW, a six year old game? How in the blue hell could it be!? It's brand new.

    The combat is not smooth, at first i thought it was lag, but the animations were clunky and NOT fluid at all, i felt like my ability to respond to what was going on didnt matter, it reminded me of that WoW system when they implemented queuing, except you could literally negate queing down to where you can just spam, in ToR abilities would activate 1-2 seconds after i hit them, and defensive cool downs were a pain, i could hit the deflection ability for sentinels and it would not be active until i had actually taken a few hits without the buff.
    I'm going to call bullshit. I know we're not supposed to talk about leaks, but I've seen SO many videos of smooth gameplay. PvP, Flashpoints. A Bounty Hunter circle-strafing and shooting. Totalbiscut and his camera guy playing a Trooper at one of the Conventions (that guy won't endorse a game the way he did, unless he honestly likes it). Could it be that you had a shit connection, a shit system, are extremely biased, are a baddie, or had expectations that virtually no game could fulfill?

    It is not everyone cup of tea, <Snip> i do hope im wrong, and look forward to reviews and more content to see if its worth checking out again but at this point, all i see is delusional individuals who want something new so bad that they cant see that its the same thing, except it actually has less to offer you. Oh but way better graphics for sure, and the opening cinematic was stellar.
    All your friends? How many was that? 2? 6? That's cool that you and all your pals got in the beta and all had the same negative opinion. It's not that I expect everyone to like the game. I just don't think from a varied group of MMO players, that ALL of them would agree with your points that clearly.. a great deal of people find to be bullshit.
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-11-04 at 10:00 PM.
    There were around 7,000 Greeks in total at the Battle of Thermopylae.
    Not just the Spartans and a few inept imbeciles to play clean up.
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  16. #616
    People who believe Blizzard has just been "complacent" all this time are seriously naive.

    To me, MoP is just a sign of desperation from Blizzard.
    You'd have probably said this if Blizzard released any other expansion imaginable.
    Last edited by Luph; 2011-11-04 at 10:04 PM.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Drihan View Post
    To me, MoP is just a sign of desperation from Blizzard. They see that GW2 and SWTOR are gaining so many followers because of what they are based around, so they try to bring it into the new expansion. The biggest indicator was when Monks was announced to have no Auto Attack, then I just stopped reading the other changes and said goodbye to my WoW subscription. Sorry if it offends anyone, but that is how I see it.

    SWTOR will be a major hit at launch, I just hope BioWare will be able to live up to the hype in the long run. Remains to be seen, of course, but it is looking promising. I have played so many MMOs in the past, Aion, AoC, WAR, SWG and plenty others (Aion is an amazing game it's just the grind to top lvl that's so insanely dull). The worst thing about those games was that, after playing WoW, trying out those other games the moving of your character, combat, ability reaction speed etc. all felt incredibly sluggish and slow. I hear that SWTOR will have the same movement and fighting "feel" as when pushing buttons in WoW, which is a system that I absolutely love. The RPG elements in SWTOR aswell is something that we have not seen before in other games. WoW failed in all respects to create a proper immersive RPG experience, so it's more of an MMOG instead of an MMORPG.

    SWTOR draws also a lot of people in because of nostalgia; they have heard about Star Wars, seen the movies or read the novels, so they are more prone to begin playing, but keeping them playing is all up to BioWare and the average player today bitches about EVERYTHING. If this game came out fully costumized to just 1 player (let's call him Max), Max would still find SOMETHING to complain about. The only thing BioWare can do is suffer through the whining of others and do their best to create a good environment that keeps as many people as possible happy. And from my previous experience with BioWare, they will do just that.

    People seems to be tossing around the comment "BioWare has no experience in making MMOs therefore SWTOR will fail", this statement is incredibly ignorant. I wonder how much experience Blizzard had with MMOs before they made WoW, probably none at all. They might have had some decent idea on what it would be like, but that was far from what they would really face. Blizzard has now had many years of experience which is why WoW is still so popular.
    Just don't forget, Blizzard was amatures with MMOs at one point too, and they have made the most succesful MMO to date. So let's not doom SWTOR just based on that.
    WOW was blizz's first MMO as far as i know, and while it has been a big hit, it was a buggy as hell launch.
    The game was much more "done" then a lot of other MMO launches but it had its own problems no doubt, loot lag, servers crashing daily, falling through the world (always a fun time)
    WoW came along in a time where the only other really big MMO out there was EQ, and EQ was getting old, people were looking for something new, EQ2 had the chance to be the next big thing but SOE screwed it up with how it launched and how many people hated the game then, it has since been fixed and is a very enjoyable game, but first impressions will kill a game esp in the MMO world.
    If SWTOR has a good, clean launch i see great things for it.
    If it has a crap bugg infested launch, well then...
    But you cant compare WOW present day with a game about to be newly launched, Blizz has had a lot of time to fix their stuff to make the game what it is today.

  18. #618
    i hope its a good game... i dont plan to buy it (at least for a while), but i want it to be good. if it's good and successful, its a win for all of us, as wow will have to work even harder to improve their game, and will probably "borrow" good ideas from it. good competition always benefits the consumer, and wow has been all but a monopoly for a very long time

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezarr View Post
    <Snip> NDA
    I read your post before it was <snipped>. All I can say it that Blizzard's WoW had a colorful launch, and I would expect no less from BioWare. .. Keep an open mind - I think they know what they are doing. Their marketing strategy alone should give everyone an indication that they know a thing or 2 about how to compete with other MMO's (specifically WoW). If you look at BioWare's timely decisions to announce or hint information, you admire their observance of the industry (as well as withholding information like the NDA). If you have no idea what this means, then by all means troll it and call this post crap - but that will say something about yourself
    Last edited by Karteli; 2011-11-04 at 10:17 PM.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    WoW's been out for six motherfucking years! Do you remember the first six months of live, because I sure do. Bending down to loot, nothing happening, so you move around in circles.. sliding on bended knee. They've had YEARS to polish and tweak, after an extremely bad and bug-filled release, and became the best MMO of it's day. Will SWTOR be as polished as WoW, a six year old game? How in the blue hell could it be!? It's brand new.
    I take it you are a sith

    First of all, that was exactly the point im making, in order to compete with such a game like WoW, you need to be better prepared, they have such a head start, that a lot of games do not fail because they suck or have nothing to offer ( again i am repeating myself here) they fail because players are simply so spoiled by wow, and what it gives to you as it has had 6 years to perfect its art, and has done one damn good job by this point, no matter how many people complain about it.

    This thread was about the success of ToR, and i was simply bringing up a possible reason for it not being as successful as it could be. Its Competition is light years ahead of it, and it sucks for all the new mmo's coming out. It has to learn from Blizzard and i just dont see them doing that. Granted they replicated the feel of dungeons ( flashpoints/raids what have you) and UI but the game play was my biggest concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    I'm going to call bullshit. I know we're not supposed to talk about leaks, but I've seen SO many videos of smooth gameplay. PvP, Flashpoints. A Bounty Hunter circle-strafing and shooting. Totalbiscut and his camera guy playing a Trooper at one of the Conventions (that guy won't endorse a game the way he did, unless he honestly likes it). Could it be that you had a shit connection, a shit system, are extremely biased, are a baddie, or had expectations that virtually no game could fulfill?
    I think you misunderstand, i was not lagging, my PC is more than capable of handling ToR as is my connection, i was referencing the feel of the game over several days, so i eliminated server lag as that sole issue, no doubt it existed in certain areas. It felt slow, it felt boring. I am no pro at ToR, as for other games i would say that i am pretty competent at MMO's and RTS'. I don't think my expectations for this game, given the developer;were too unrealistic; that is, i wanted a game that looked at wow, took the best things from it, managed to actually mimic them well enough, and then expanded the genre to offer new things. Questing is a huge fail in my eyes, it was so ridiculously boring and drawn out, SO WAS WOW in the first 2 years, BUT they are not in blizzards position, surely it is not unrealistic to ask developer to not make mistakes that were made 6-7 years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    All your friends? How many was that? 2? 6? That's cool that you and all your pals got in the beta and all had the same negative opinion. It's not that I expect everyone to like the game. I just don't think from a varied group of MMO players, that ALL of them would agree with your points that clearly.. a great deal of people find to be bullshit.
    Fair enough, it was mostly the members in my guild. I'm simply conveying my opinion from beta. And frankly, you have done nothing to change that opinion or offer legitimate evidence to support any of your claims other than to attack my ability to play games and fail at comprehension.

    I also find that end game content is almost a direct port of WoW endgame, so from someone who may be looking for something new in the end game arena, i find ToR lacking, why would i play ToR when i could have a better end game in WoW as its more polished, if i wanted bland mechanics and gameplay i would simply play Vanilla wow again. I am really not trolling here, i think you may underestimate my desire, and others, for a new game that offers something different to WoW at all levels of play. I think guild wars 2 may do just that.

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