If SW:TOR is successful...

[kalamitis]

The thing is if swtor is successful, it would be a blessing for people that are gonna play it or people that'll play another mmo. Gamers would have another good choice, wow, rift and the rest would have a new good competitor that would make them try harder. I only see pros, I can't understand the whole arguement wow vs rift vs swtor vs GW2

[Drihan]

To me, MoP is just a sign of desperation from Blizzard. They see that GW2 and SWTOR are gaining so many followers because of what they are based around, so they try to bring it into the new expansion. The biggest indicator was when Monks was announced to have no Auto Attack, then I just stopped reading the other changes and said goodbye to my WoW subscription. Sorry if it offends anyone, but that is how I see it.

SWTOR will be a major hit at launch, I just hope BioWare will be able to live up to the hype in the long run. Remains to be seen, of course, but it is looking promising. I have played so many MMOs in the past, Aion, AoC, WAR, SWG and plenty others (Aion is an amazing game it's just the grind to top lvl that's so insanely dull). The worst thing about those games was that, after playing WoW, trying out those other games the moving of your character, combat, ability reaction speed etc. all felt incredibly sluggish and slow. I hear that SWTOR will have the same movement and fighting "feel" as when pushing buttons in WoW, which is a system that I absolutely love. The RPG elements in SWTOR aswell is something that we have not seen before in other games. WoW failed in all respects to create a proper immersive RPG experience, so it's more of an MMOG instead of an MMORPG.

SWTOR draws also a lot of people in because of nostalgia; they have heard about Star Wars, seen the movies or read the novels, so they are more prone to begin playing, but keeping them playing is all up to BioWare and the average player today bitches about EVERYTHING. If this game came out fully costumized to just 1 player (let's call him Max), Max would still find SOMETHING to complain about. The only thing BioWare can do is suffer through the whining of others and do their best to create a good environment that keeps as many people as possible happy. And from my previous experience with BioWare, they will do just that.

People seems to be tossing around the comment "BioWare has no experience in making MMOs therefore SWTOR will fail", this statement is incredibly ignorant. I wonder how much experience Blizzard had with MMOs before they made WoW, probably none at all. They might have had some decent idea on what it would be like, but that was far from what they would really face. Blizzard has now had many years of experience which is why WoW is still so popular.
Just don't forget, Blizzard was amatures with MMOs at one point too, and they have made the most succesful MMO to date. So let's not doom SWTOR just based on that.

[Nezarr]

<Snip> NDA

[Nakaya_Kilrogg]

as for being a success, i dont see how it wont be. people want a new game so bad that they fail to realise that TOR is simply an unpolished wow res-kinned. It will take months if not years to get the game as polished as WoW,

WoW's been out for six motherfucking years! Do you remember the first six months of live, because I sure do. Bending down to loot, nothing happening, so you move around in circles.. sliding on bended knee. They've had YEARS to polish and tweak, after an extremely bad and bug-filled release, and became the best MMO of it's day. Will SWTOR be as polished as WoW, a six year old game? How in the blue hell could it be!? It's brand new.

The combat is not smooth, at first i thought it was lag, but the animations were clunky and NOT fluid at all, i felt like my ability to respond to what was going on didnt matter, it reminded me of that WoW system when they implemented queuing, except you could literally negate queing down to where you can just spam, in ToR abilities would activate 1-2 seconds after i hit them, and defensive cool downs were a pain, i could hit the deflection ability for sentinels and it would not be active until i had actually taken a few hits without the buff.

I'm going to call bullshit. I know we're not supposed to talk about leaks, but I've seen SO many videos of smooth gameplay. PvP, Flashpoints. A Bounty Hunter circle-strafing and shooting. Totalbiscut and his camera guy playing a Trooper at one of the Conventions (that guy won't endorse a game the way he did, unless he honestly likes it). Could it be that you had a shit connection, a shit system, are extremely biased, are a baddie, or had expectations that virtually no game could fulfill?

It is not everyone cup of tea, <Snip> i do hope im wrong, and look forward to reviews and more content to see if its worth checking out again but at this point, all i see is delusional individuals who want something new so bad that they cant see that its the same thing, except it actually has less to offer you. Oh but way better graphics for sure, and the opening cinematic was stellar.

All your friends? How many was that? 2? 6? That's cool that you and all your pals got in the beta and all had the same negative opinion. It's not that I expect everyone to like the game. I just don't think from a varied group of MMO players, that ALL of them would agree with your points that clearly.. a great deal of people find to be bullshit.

[Luph]

People who believe Blizzard has just been "complacent" all this time are seriously naive.

To me, MoP is just a sign of desperation from Blizzard.

You'd have probably said this if Blizzard released any other expansion imaginable.

[Gxeternal]

To me, MoP is just a sign of desperation from Blizzard. They see that GW2 and SWTOR are gaining so many followers because of what they are based around, so they try to bring it into the new expansion. The biggest indicator was when Monks was announced to have no Auto Attack, then I just stopped reading the other changes and said goodbye to my WoW subscription. Sorry if it offends anyone, but that is how I see it.

SWTOR will be a major hit at launch, I just hope BioWare will be able to live up to the hype in the long run. Remains to be seen, of course, but it is looking promising. I have played so many MMOs in the past, Aion, AoC, WAR, SWG and plenty others (Aion is an amazing game it's just the grind to top lvl that's so insanely dull). The worst thing about those games was that, after playing WoW, trying out those other games the moving of your character, combat, ability reaction speed etc. all felt incredibly sluggish and slow. I hear that SWTOR will have the same movement and fighting "feel" as when pushing buttons in WoW, which is a system that I absolutely love. The RPG elements in SWTOR aswell is something that we have not seen before in other games. WoW failed in all respects to create a proper immersive RPG experience, so it's more of an MMOG instead of an MMORPG.

SWTOR draws also a lot of people in because of nostalgia; they have heard about Star Wars, seen the movies or read the novels, so they are more prone to begin playing, but keeping them playing is all up to BioWare and the average player today bitches about EVERYTHING. If this game came out fully costumized to just 1 player (let's call him Max), Max would still find SOMETHING to complain about. The only thing BioWare can do is suffer through the whining of others and do their best to create a good environment that keeps as many people as possible happy. And from my previous experience with BioWare, they will do just that.

People seems to be tossing around the comment "BioWare has no experience in making MMOs therefore SWTOR will fail", this statement is incredibly ignorant. I wonder how much experience Blizzard had with MMOs before they made WoW, probably none at all. They might have had some decent idea on what it would be like, but that was far from what they would really face. Blizzard has now had many years of experience which is why WoW is still so popular.
Just don't forget, Blizzard was amatures with MMOs at one point too, and they have made the most succesful MMO to date. So let's not doom SWTOR just based on that.

WOW was blizz's first MMO as far as i know, and while it has been a big hit, it was a buggy as hell launch.
The game was much more "done" then a lot of other MMO launches but it had its own problems no doubt, loot lag, servers crashing daily, falling through the world (always a fun time)
WoW came along in a time where the only other really big MMO out there was EQ, and EQ was getting old, people were looking for something new, EQ2 had the chance to be the next big thing but SOE screwed it up with how it launched and how many people hated the game then, it has since been fixed and is a very enjoyable game, but first impressions will kill a game esp in the MMO world.
If SWTOR has a good, clean launch i see great things for it.
If it has a crap bugg infested launch, well then...
But you cant compare WOW present day with a game about to be newly launched, Blizz has had a lot of time to fix their stuff to make the game what it is today.

[smelltheglove]

i hope its a good game... i dont plan to buy it (at least for a while), but i want it to be good. if it's good and successful, its a win for all of us, as wow will have to work even harder to improve their game, and will probably "borrow" good ideas from it. good competition always benefits the consumer, and wow has been all but a monopoly for a very long time

[Karteli]

<Snip> NDA

I read your post before it was <snipped>. All I can say it that Blizzard's WoW had a colorful launch, and I would expect no less from BioWare. .. Keep an open mind - I think they know what they are doing. Their marketing strategy alone should give everyone an indication that they know a thing or 2 about how to compete with other MMO's (specifically WoW). If you look at BioWare's timely decisions to announce or hint information, you admire their observance of the industry (as well as withholding information like the NDA). If you have no idea what this means, then by all means troll it and call this post crap - but that will say something about yourself

[Nezarr]

WoW's been out for six motherfucking years! Do you remember the first six months of live, because I sure do. Bending down to loot, nothing happening, so you move around in circles.. sliding on bended knee. They've had YEARS to polish and tweak, after an extremely bad and bug-filled release, and became the best MMO of it's day. Will SWTOR be as polished as WoW, a six year old game? How in the blue hell could it be!? It's brand new.

I take it you are a sith

First of all, that was exactly the point im making, in order to compete with such a game like WoW, you need to be better prepared, they have such a head start, that a lot of games do not fail because they suck or have nothing to offer ( again i am repeating myself here) they fail because players are simply so spoiled by wow, and what it gives to you as it has had 6 years to perfect its art, and has done one damn good job by this point, no matter how many people complain about it.

This thread was about the success of ToR, and i was simply bringing up a possible reason for it not being as successful as it could be. Its Competition is light years ahead of it, and it sucks for all the new mmo's coming out. It has to learn from Blizzard and i just dont see them doing that. Granted they replicated the feel of dungeons ( flashpoints/raids what have you) and UI but the game play was my biggest concern.

I'm going to call bullshit. I know we're not supposed to talk about leaks, but I've seen SO many videos of smooth gameplay. PvP, Flashpoints. A Bounty Hunter circle-strafing and shooting. Totalbiscut and his camera guy playing a Trooper at one of the Conventions (that guy won't endorse a game the way he did, unless he honestly likes it). Could it be that you had a shit connection, a shit system, are extremely biased, are a baddie, or had expectations that virtually no game could fulfill?

I think you misunderstand, i was not lagging, my PC is more than capable of handling ToR as is my connection, i was referencing the feel of the game over several days, so i eliminated server lag as that sole issue, no doubt it existed in certain areas. It felt slow, it felt boring. I am no pro at ToR, as for other games i would say that i am pretty competent at MMO's and RTS'. I don't think my expectations for this game, given the developer;were too unrealistic; that is, i wanted a game that looked at wow, took the best things from it, managed to actually mimic them well enough, and then expanded the genre to offer new things. Questing is a huge fail in my eyes, it was so ridiculously boring and drawn out, SO WAS WOW in the first 2 years, BUT they are not in blizzards position, surely it is not unrealistic to ask developer to not make mistakes that were made 6-7 years ago?

All your friends? How many was that? 2? 6? That's cool that you and all your pals got in the beta and all had the same negative opinion. It's not that I expect everyone to like the game. I just don't think from a varied group of MMO players, that ALL of them would agree with your points that clearly.. a great deal of people find to be bullshit.

Fair enough, it was mostly the members in my guild. I'm simply conveying my opinion from beta. And frankly, you have done nothing to change that opinion or offer legitimate evidence to support any of your claims other than to attack my ability to play games and fail at comprehension.

I also find that end game content is almost a direct port of WoW endgame, so from someone who may be looking for something new in the end game arena, i find ToR lacking, why would i play ToR when i could have a better end game in WoW as its more polished, if i wanted bland mechanics and gameplay i would simply play Vanilla wow again. I am really not trolling here, i think you may underestimate my desire, and others, for a new game that offers something different to WoW at all levels of play. I think guild wars 2 may do just that.

[Blznsmri]

You'd have probably said this if Blizzard released any other expansion imaginable.

It's not that they're releasing a new expansion its what they're implementing in that expansion.

[Nezarr]

Karteli, i think i am open to ToR still, i wont purchase it on launch but if i here encouraging things from people i trust ill give it a shot. I dont know why my post was 'snipped' as i was not trolling, im genuinely commenting on the potential success of tor, and you can not do that without comparisons; i made them. As for their announcements and timings, i think both blizzard and bioware and doing a good job with trying to keep members and hinder the other.

I am just looking for an objective approach to ToR, and not just ' Blizzard fails, lawl pandas, blizzard sucks, tor is awesome' i wish to know why, what made you love ToR, if its the lore then i understand, but SW lore does not appeal to me as i have not read much lore, if its gameplay, i would like to know what about game play left you impressed.

I dont think any of this is trolling or unfair to ask.

[Tury123]

Guild wars 2!

Post constructively, please. -3clipse

[Drihan]

You'd have probably said this if Blizzard released any other expansion imaginable.

If Blizzard wouldn't have thrown in loads of stuff the new MMOs are having in their core, into a, what seemed to be, an extremely rushed together presentation, then I might have been more optimistic, but it's not just that. It's mostly about what Blizzard is focusing on, which is simply a what used to be Easter Egg race and making it the sole focus of their entire expansion. And all the changes they are bringing in (especially to the talent system) is going to be very dangerous to WoW's future. They aren't just making small convenient changes to make lives easier, they are changing most of the model that made WoW so succesful in the first place.
I have no doubt a lot of people are gonna love it, but I for one won't willingly stand by and suffer through a game being killed by it's own ignorant masters.

But this thread is about SWTOR.

OT:

The Imperial Agent character progression video just got a released a few minutes ago and it looks amazing. I'm more excited about this class than before. All of the class videos has been extremely good and it relieves some of the pressure building up for players regarding info starvation. The NDA is still up which is hurting SWTOR, which is a shame, but I certainly hope BioWare won't keep it up for much longer. There is like 30% of the game that we do know about and 70% that is still under the NDA. Which gives WoW fanbois and GW2 lovers (in no fault of their own) a lot more of a pessimistic and hateful view of the game since the information released is so limited.
SWTOR is still a month away (at least) from launching their Early Access and the NDA should break before then or else BW will see loads of stuff leaked on the interwebz. Not only is it adding more fuel to the hatefire, but it's also very disrespectful and a bit cruel to the loyal BW fans who are anxiously awaiting this game.

[Nakaya_Kilrogg]

I take it you are a sith

For certain. :P

It felt slow, it felt boring.

Has to be a preference thing. In no video I've seen.. apart from level 1 shit, where you have 1 ability, have I gotten that impression at all. While I haven't been able to play myself, I've played enough games and heard enough other reviews to have developed what I think is an informed opinion on the matter. However, I'll concede that not everyone is going to like the same things.

Questing is a huge fail in my eyes, it was so ridiculously boring and drawn out,

This, I disagree with. Quests might take a little longer to get and turn in, but I LOVE the dialogue system from MEs/DAs/KotORs. I love making those kill 10 bats quests more than just accepting quest texts. Again, this is personal preferences at play, but I can't wait to be leveling with their quest system.

Fair enough, it was mostly the members in my guild. I'm simply conveying my opinion from beta. And frankly, you have done nothing to change that opinion or offer legitimate evidence to support any of your claims other than to attack my ability to play games and fail at comprehension.

I won't be able to change your opinion. If all of the info on the first page, playing the beta (as you've said you've done), or reading the thousands of posts here hasn't made you view the game favorably, there's no way Nakaya_kilrogg can make the stars align, connect two or three synapses in your brain, and open up a light from heaven to shine the light of truth (imo, anyway) down on you. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

Also, I wasn't calling you a baddie. You could be a 2400 gladiator, or have a heroic Rag kill. I have absolutely no idea. I was just offering it up as one small example, as many people have found the gameplay to be pretty awesome. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, could just simply be a difference of opinion. If I came across harshly, I apologize.

I also find that end game content is almost a direct port of WoW endgame, so from someone who may be looking for something new in the end game arena, i find ToR lacking, why would i play ToR when i could have a better end game in WoW as its more polished, if i wanted bland mechanics and gameplay i would simply play Vanilla wow again. I am really not trolling here, i think you may underestimate my desire, and others, for a new game that offers something different to WoW at all levels of play. I think guild wars 2 may do just that.

"Better" is subjective.

We haven't seen too many videos from Operations (first boss and a few clips). We haven't seen what all they're doing with Ilum. They've also mentioned they're doing "end game with a twist", things we don't know about yet.

I'm pretty sure I did underestimate you, as that Guild Wars 2 plug makes it pretty clear. :P Whatever game you play, I hope you enjoy it.