1. #1

    Boomkin Pre Patch Sockets

    I have a question about sockets now that the pre patch is here.

    If i take in mind Cyous stat priority it says:

    Mastery >= Crit > Haste > Multistrike >= Versatility

    Yellow will be 20 mastery yellow Factured Sun's radiance

    blue will be 10haste/10crit purple Accurate Imperial Amethyst
    or 10crit/10mastery green Sensei's wild jade

    red?
    will it be 5int/10mastery orange Artful Vermillion Onyx
    or 10Haste/10mastery orange Keen vermillion Onyx

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Lascalpa View Post
    I have a question about sockets now that the pre patch is here.

    If i take in mind Cyous stat priority it says:

    Mastery >= Crit > Haste > Multistrike >= Versatility

    Yellow will be 20 mastery yellow Factured Sun's radiance

    blue will be 10haste/10crit purple Accurate Imperial Amethyst
    or 10crit/10mastery green Sensei's wild jade

    red?
    will it be 5int/10mastery orange Artful Vermillion Onyx
    or 10Haste/10mastery orange Keen vermillion Onyx
    If you are gonna use Mastery in yellow then it makes sense to use Sensei's in blues, right?
    And yes, Keen in reds.

  3. #3
    Thats why i'm asking, because i already saw some moonkin with int/mastery which went for pure mastery in yellow and I wanted to make sure if it's good or if the others are better.

  4. #4
    To me there is currently only one proper way to have our own stat weights, which is using Hamlet's Wrathcalcs.

    Writting personnal stats on the red cells, last version (WrathCalcs-141005-6.0-Beta.xls) show int to be 8 times better than Mastery.

    So... why using mastery on red gems ?

    I would be very curious to get an answer

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    To me there is currently only one proper way to have our own stat weights, which is using Hamlet's Wrathcalcs.

    Writting personnal stats on the red cells, last version (WrathCalcs-141005-6.0-Beta.xls) show int to be 8 times better than Mastery.

    So... why using mastery on red gems ?

    I would be very curious to get an answer
    I have been checking out other Moonkin in high end guilds this morning and none of them are running Int gems in red sockets, they are mostly all going haste/mastery. But, that being said I am now wondering if Int gems are better? Also, why are haste/mastery gems better than int/mastery? Thanks.

  6. #6
    Just go pure mastery and win!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fainth View Post
    Just go pure mastery and win!
    I went to the AH and asked the auctioneer for some "Win" and he told me to "...get lost!" (Just kidding) Seriously though are you going strait mastery in all sockets?

  8. #8
    Why going Mastery or even Haste/Mastery if Int > Mastery * 8 > Haste * 8

    According to wrathcalcs you do more dps anyway with 1 int rather than 1 mastery, sure 1 mastery = more % dmg, but it's the same with Int, and Int is stronger
    Last edited by Cæli; 2014-10-20 at 01:58 PM.

  9. #9
    Because wrath calcs is set up for 100 and uses level 100 secondary conversions unless a new one I missed was released. This artificially and inaccurately devalues secondary stats unless you manually update the values like someone did a few pages back

  10. #10
    I am yielding better results with Artfuls in Red, instead of Keens.

    +5 int/+10 mastery.
    If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars.

  11. #11
    Like Harley mentioned, the current version of WrathCalcs doesn't work for level 90s (see my post here). I adjusted the stat rating conversions to make the sheet work for 90s here and added the Starsurge cast time here.

    In everything I've looked at in both in WrathCalcs and SimCraft (in the following posts from that thread), int is less than two times better than mastery, haste, and crit. In SimCraft, switching my red sockets from int/mastery to haste/mastery was about a 2-3% dps boost across a few different fight styles.

    It's maybe worth pointing out that if your mastery is high enough, SimCraft will start to show haste and crit as having higher marginal values than mastery. So you could increase (theoretical, SimCraft) DPS by equalizing the three stats a bit more. The predicted differences here were very small though (<0.5%) so I didn't bother with it much further.
    Last edited by Tarm; 2014-10-20 at 06:25 PM.

  12. #12
    It is probably also worth noting that anyone who says they can feel or see the difference between two gemming setups is probably full of shit. Standard error will make a bigger difference than gemming without a massive sample size.

  13. #13
    Blademaster lymitid's Avatar
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    From evaluating resources online, and trying to apply some of the common sense I don't actually have, here is my stance on gemming at 90.

    1. Haste is very strong for multi-dotting>multi-dotting is still very viable in SoO for a multitude of reasons. Not having WoD perks enhancing some of our spells, plenty of movement in SoO, casting on Thok, etc. just makes dots (specifically moonfire) in general right now a strong option after starfall. These issues don't really exist at lv 100 when you can instant starsurge on the move, cast hurricane for real aoe, and wrath/starfire are harder hitting options with draenor perks, thus making our dots weaker in comparison. Right now, they are still pretty good though!

    Also note: More haste=lower gcd=able to apply moonfire to more targets without hitting that GCD wall.

    2. The amount of haste I gained from gemming (~6-8%) probably won't make a huge noticeable difference as HarleyM stated. And even if it did, 4 weeks of logs from thousands of moonkins still won't give you a conclusive answer. Hell, 52 weeks of 5.4 and no one could definitively say that gemming mastery after having so much crit in heroic siege gear wasn't worth it. There are many fights in SoO where int/mastery will probably benefit me more like IJ, Malkorok, Siegecrafter, even Thok since that haste from gemming probably still won't help me get starfires off :P

    Since there are far less "patchwerk" fights right now in SoO, haste will help for the majority of the raid.

    3. At lv 100, highly doubt keen gems will be used since multi-dotting outside of CA/sunfire cleave is not really good at Lv100. Lower importance of multi-dotting=lower priority of haste, especially in the first tier. Int mastery gems will fill the role in WoD that int/crit filled in MoP basically as INT is much better at lv 100.

    As an afterthought, everything in SoO probably falls over now and these changes won't last very long so feel free to just play around with whatever gem setup you want. It's a very good way of learning how your stats interact with your class, and with each other. I've tried wrapping my head around which way to gem for the past 2 weeks, and then realized the difference you will notice if any is probably so small that you couldn't even say it was because of haste vs. int with only 4 weeks of logs to analyze.

    TLDR; As long as mastery is on the gem, you will be A-okay

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HarleyM View Post
    It is probably also worth noting that anyone who says they can feel or see the difference between two gemming setups is probably full of shit. Standard error will make a bigger difference than gemming without a massive sample size.
    I agree with this. Even the 3% predicted boost seen from getting rid of any int is far below the natural variation you will see just from RNG from fight mechanics, how many crits you get, when your trinkets proc, etc. Predicted differences between going heavy on crit, mastery, or haste are even smaller then that. Any differences we think we can see in game can probably be attributed to small sample size and confirmation bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by lymitid View Post
    3. At lv 100, highly doubt keen gems will be used since multi-dotting outside of CA/sunfire cleave is not really good at Lv100. Lower importance of multi-dotting=lower priority of haste, especially in the first tier. Int mastery gems will fill the role in WoD that int/crit filled in MoP basically as INT is much better at lv 100.
    The level 100 gems only have secondary stats (or stamina). So we will probably just use Greater Mastery Taladites on our (rare) socketed pieces.
    Last edited by Tarm; 2014-10-21 at 09:48 PM.

  15. #15
    Blademaster lymitid's Avatar
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    No foot-in-mouth emoticon, well I tried. Very good point Tarm :P So even moreso will these gemming decisions just mean nothing soon!

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