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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Yes WC does not show the true value of NV. The most recent version of the spreadsheet has the correct values for Haste, if you are showing Mastery's weight above Haste then you are not using this version or you changed that something that shouldn't be changed and should probably redownload.
    Im using whatever one is being linked on the site as we speak. I did all these figures last night. It says on the link that it is 121220.xls. All the stats were correct mostly (a few were off by 1 or so due to the upgrade system) and nothing was changed anywhere else that would mess with anything. Ill see how this more mastery heavy build works in game before completely dismissing it.

  2. #682
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Im using whatever one is being linked on the site as we speak. I did all these figures last night. It says on the link that it is 121220.xls. All the stats were correct mostly (a few were off by 1 or so due to the upgrade system) and nothing was changed anywhere else that would mess with anything. Ill see how this more mastery heavy build works in game before completely dismissing it.
    Well I believe 121220 is the sheet from December 20th, 2012. This haste fix was made just last week so that wouldn't be the correct one.


    Edit: The sheet you are looking for is 130116PTR.xls found on page 48 of the WC thread on EJ. (I'd link it for you but EJ is blocked at work ><)

    Even though it has PTR in the title and is technically for 5.2, this will work just as fine for gameplay on live. The only things they have really adjusted 5.2 related are NV and FoN, nothing that will have any effect on your gearing/gemming/stat weights.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-01-18 at 08:29 PM.

  3. #683
    For some reason, the PTR version of Wrathcalcs is telling me that Haste>Crit. I'm nowhere near the 8k breakpoint (not that I go for it),have 4p and the only thing that changed since last time is my boots. Live version stats look like they should be (except Intellect gaining ground with Intel=2xcrit).

  4. #684
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    For some reason, the PTR version of Wrathcalcs is telling me that Haste>Crit. I'm nowhere near the 8k breakpoint (not that I go for it),have 4p and the only thing that changed since last time is my boots. Live version stats look like they should be (except Intellect gaining ground with Intel=2xcrit).
    Change a crit gem to a haste gem and see if your DPS goes up. If it does then it is entirely possible that's accurate, different balances of crit/haste/int can make valuations differ greatly. If your DPS doesn't go up then you are likely at some weird mini bp of sorts and you can safely ignore it for now.

    For reference with my gear Haste only comes .07 DPS per point behind Crit, so it's very possible that Haste will be more DPS per point on a consistent basis next tier if there is abundance of Crit on the new gear.

  5. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    For some reason, the PTR version of Wrathcalcs is telling me that Haste>Crit.
    Is that necessarily strange? I haven't done a lot of research but I think haste has been a bit ahead of crit for a while in most Patchwerk cases. The reason we go for the crit isn't Patchwerk (where the difference between crit and haste should be quite small) but multidotting (and movement probably).

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuscarora View Post
    Is that necessarily strange? I haven't done a lot of research but I think haste has been a bit ahead of crit for a while in most Patchwerk cases. The reason we go for the crit isn't Patchwerk (where the difference between crit and haste should be quite small) but multidotting (and movement probably).
    It's not that it's strange. Stats are stats and we go with the best no the pretty. Just wandering if it's a bug since it doesn't exist in the live version.

    Tried adding 2000 haste, crit came a bit ahead, then added 1500 crit and haste came ahead. Don't know what to think.

  7. #687
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    It's not that it's strange. Stats are stats and we go with the best no the pretty. Just wandering if it's a bug since it doesn't exist in the live version.

    Tried adding 2000 haste, crit came a bit ahead, then added 1500 crit and haste came ahead. Don't know what to think.
    It's not a bug, the Haste valuation was finally updated in the PTR version and Hamlet and Tec (I believe Eluial came up with the Haste model) are confident it's as close to the real valuation as possible. The valuation on the live spreadsheet is just wrong, was showing way lower than it actually is.

    Just remember Crit becomes more valuable with more movement/targets; so even if it's showing them neck and neck, Crit is the safer bet.

  8. #688
    After trying out Balance on my druid, I could not justify constantly watching my Eclipse Bar since actual energy number matters very little, number of casts is what seemed important.
    Would replacing Eclipse Bar with box like this work? Text shows number of casts required to change Eclipse state. If it is red - Starsurge would decrease number by two, Wrath/Starfall casts decrease number by one. Background color indicates current state
    Is this a viable concept or should I just forget it?

    Options:


    No Eclipse, 2 casts left until Solar Eclipse


    Solar Eclipse, 3 Wraths or 1 Starsurge + 1 Wrath left until no Eclipse


    No Eclipse, 1 cast left until Lunar Eclipse


    Lunar Eclipse, 4 casts left until no Eclipse

  9. #689
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    It's an interesting idea, it would be fine for Lunar Eclipse but it seems like it would be confusing for newer players during Solar. Let's say in one situation you have 20 energy left in Solar and in another situation you have 25 energy left. In both cases your box would show 2 casts remaining, however they wouldn't know if they were at 20 or 25, meaning the latter would be ok to use Starsurge now if it's up whereas the former would not be ok and cost you dps.

    What you could do is have a separate box color for when Starsurge is ok to cast in Solar (100,85,70,55,40,25,10,5) and then I different color if you only want to cast Wrath, thus saving your next SS for when the box changes color. The amount of casts remaining would always be accurate as long you followed the colors in the box.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    It's an interesting idea, it would be fine for Lunar Eclipse but it seems like it would be confusing for newer players during Solar. Let's say in one situation you have 20 energy left in Solar and in another situation you have 25 energy left. In both cases your box would show 2 casts remaining, however they wouldn't know if they were at 20 or 25, meaning the latter would be ok to use Starsurge now if it's up whereas the former would not be ok and cost you dps.

    What you could do is have a separate box color for when Starsurge is ok to cast in Solar (100,85,70,55,40,25,10,5) and then I different color if you only want to cast Wrath, thus saving your next SS for when the box changes color. The amount of casts remaining would always be accurate as long you followed the colors in the box.
    Thanks for reply. Although I did not think about 20 energy situation, technically red colored text already deals with it. And it can't go red at 2, 3, 4, so information that Starsurge needs to be delayed is available in advance. From my other addon (not druid related), I know that adding more colors is bad.
    Anyway, if anyone is interested:
    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/eclipsebox

  11. #691
    Balance - Increased Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge by 9%.

    Hallelujah

  12. #692
    High Overlord Soraka's Avatar
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    In rawr for my current gear, I'm seeing pure int in red and int/crit in yellow being *slightly* better than int/crit in red and crit in yellow. Is anyone else siming similar?
    Last edited by Soraka; 2013-02-13 at 06:36 PM.

  13. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eielayia View Post
    In rawr for my current gear and raid buffs, I'm seeing pure int in red and int/crit in yellow being *slightly* better than int/crit in red and crit in yellow. Is anyone else siming similar?
    EDIT: I know noticed you're far more advanced in terms of gear and progress than me, so you can probably ignore my response ;p

    I don't know about Rawr and its current state of reliability, but I recall checking it out like 2 months ago and it was completely broken imho.

    What I can tell you is that I do believe in gemming pure crit. In my case getting 3 more items with crit, reforging completely into crit and filling all red sockets with int/crit worked wonders, I essentially broke out from 55k dps hell and started being at least mildly competitive with other casters (which finally can change in 5.2, since we're going to be 9% more awesome <3).

    While Int is still obvious choice for enchants/jc gems, I recommend regular gemming and reforging to be as crit-oriented as possible.

    But well, I'm not an expert, right? :D due to this fact, I'd rather wait for Sunfyre or another Owlkin God to speak in this matter, I'll gladly receive any critics and suggestions, especially considering 5.2 changes.

    Btw, am I paranoid or there is more mastery on items in 5.2 than it used to be so far?

  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by Eielayia View Post
    In rawr for my current gear, I'm seeing pure int in red and int/crit in yellow being *slightly* better than int/crit in red and crit in yellow. Is anyone else siming similar?
    At some point that should happen, though as you gain more int, the balance might tip back the other way. So if they are very close, it might not be sensible to regem.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 11:59 PM ----------

    I guess this place is as good as any for now... a few stats on 5.2 trinkets of interest to us and the legendary Meta:
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Sinister Primal Diamond – 0.84 RealPPM on damage/absorb of harmful or periodic spell. No ICD.

    Intellect DPS
    - Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault – 15% chance on landing harmful spell. 45sec ICD.
    - Wushoolay’s Final Choice – 0.56 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful abilities and spells, and periodic spells. 22 sec ICD.
    - Breath of the Hydra – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from periodic spell. No ICD.
    - Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
    - Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance – 1.00 RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
    Interesting how almost all of them are now RPPM and have no ICD.

  15. #695
    Dreadlord Spray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Sinister Primal Diamond – 0.84 RealPPM on damage/absorb of harmful or periodic spell. No ICD.

    Intellect DPS
    - Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault – 15% chance on landing harmful spell. 45sec ICD.
    - Wushoolay’s Final Choice – 0.56 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful abilities and spells, and periodic spells. 22 sec ICD.
    - Breath of the Hydra – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from periodic spell. No ICD.
    - Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
    - Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance – 1.00 RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
    Interesting how almost all of them are now RPPM and have no ICD.
    Could you explain how exactly RPPM works? I've read the official post "explaining" it, but I kinda fail in the process.
    RPPM equals exact amount of procs per minute, right? So 0.5 RPPM means once in 2 minutes? How is it measured? Timeline of this trinket "counts" in 2-minute intervals? If Breath of the Hydra procs just before the end of one 2-minute interval, it can proc again immediately after, if only another ("2nd") 2-minute interval has begun? And then nothing until the "3rd" interval?

    It's kinda late here, I think, and my brain is now apparently lacking in cognitive functions.

  16. #696
    You're right. You didn't understand it.

    1 RPPM doesn't mean that it can only proc once every minute, it means that, at 0% haste it will, on average, proc once per minute.
    You could still get 10 procs in 1 minute and 0 procs for the 9 following, though.

    The difference between PPM and RPPM is that RPPM are based on your total actions that could trigger the proc, instead of just your weapon speed.
    So if you if you hit your target 60 times in a minute, each of those hits will have a 1/60 chance of proccing the effect. If you hit the target 30 times, each hit will have a 1/30 chance of proccing. This scales dynamically with your activity, so if you have to pause for a few seconds and do nothing, your proc chance actually increases to maintain the 1 proc per minute.

    This is capped at a minimum of 1 action every 10 seconds, so a 1 RPPM proc will never proc at a chance higher than 1/6 (1 minute = 6*10 seconds)

    What exactly counts as an action depends on the trinket in question. GC noted all of them for the 5.2 trinkets in that list.

    RPPM deliberately scales with haste, so the more haste you have, the more often these trinkets will proc.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizophreni View Post
    Decided to check out all the trinkets with the new PPM system, if anything is in error please let me know.


    Assuming a raid haste of 25%.

    Trinket formula:

    PPM Based Trinket

    [[[(PPM) * 1.25(Haste)] * Duration of Trinket] / 60] * Stats granted on proc

    Non-PPM based proc

    [Trinket Duration / ICD] * Stats granted on proc

    +++++++++++++

    5.2 Trinkets (Normal)
    ==============

    Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault = [1467 Intellect, 1956 Avg. Haste]

    Wushoolay’s Final Choice = [1467 hit, 1711Avg. Intellect]

    Breath of the Hydra = [1467 Haste, 1528 Avg. Intellect]

    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen = [1467 Intellect, Avg. 1500 Critical Strike]

    Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance = [1467 Critical Strike, Avg. 1528 Intellect]



    5.1 Trinkets
    ==============

    Heroic Light of Cosmos (510) = [ 1312 Haste, Avg. 1749 Intellect]

    Heroic Essence of Terror (517) = [1400 Intellect, Avg. 1527 Haste]
    Should work the same for us assuming this guy did his math correctly, probably somewhat off though because of how RPPM works. If this is all wrong than dont shoot the messenger.

    Although his figures for Light of the Cosmos seem off, 1749 is way too high, probably didnt account in its proc chance and made it up instantly off ICD. So for the one trinket that still uses proc chance I would say the stats are more accurately.

    Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault = 1467 Int, Avg. 1600 Haste

    Got that using the 15% spell landing chance and assuming a spell hit every 1.5 seconds. I'd also put the value of Hydra being better than Cha-Ye because Hydra is off DoT ticks and Cha-Ye is off critical strikes. As a class we do periodic damage FAR more frequently than critical, so its uptime should be greater. The one thats hard to judge is Unerring, on the surface to me it looks pretty bad, I could be selling it short though.

    As of now I'd say take Hydra and Wushoolay as our combos.
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2013-02-14 at 11:36 PM.

  18. #698
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Has anyone made calculations, how many valors we should leave for 5.2 in order to buy everything that will be available at first reset? Just wondering if I can still upgrade something.

  19. #699
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    So I got T14 4p-Bonus should I go for the next hastebreakpoint (8089) or should I forge haste of (3706) and stack more crit ?

    I personally prefer going for the next breakpoint but what is actually stronger ?
    "Pathes emerge , by walking them."

  20. #700
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    Has anyone made calculations, how many valors we should leave for 5.2 in order to buy everything that will be available at first reset? Just wondering if I can still upgrade something.
    Well this maybe subject to change. But currently on PTR there is a 522 neck from the new raiding reputation given at neutral for 1250 VP, so you can buy this immediately. There is also a 522 ring given at friendly reputation which may or may not be possible to obtain in the first week. Currently on PTR it is, but the reputation gains are likely to be adjusted (currently you can spam kill LFR bosses and raise your rep indefinitely). At minimum you should have 1250 saved up to buy that neck immediately. Probably 1500 to be safe, that way if you can buy the wrong, you'll accumulate the required valor during the week as you gain enough rep to buy it.

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