Page 17 of 99 FirstFirst ...
7
15
16
17
18
19
27
67
... LastLast
  1. #321
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,882
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Cool! Looking forward to it

    Btw have you noticed any point in your sims where Crit becomes better than Spellpower? Seems weird, as the graph showed the expected lines growing and at a point crit would jump up higher than SP and then go back to its normal grow...
    Well, it's kind of pointless because gear rarely has spellpower (Weapons only). I doubt you'd see it ever become better than int. And spellpower on weapons will always be a gigantic number anyways =p
    Sunfyre | @FoGSunfyre

  2. #322
    Deleted
    Sunfyre: it's worth noting that the stat weights change pretty drastically based on gear levels (at least, they did last time I ran all 3 of the profiles a couple of weeks back).

  3. #323
    The Patient Kritkin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Hi guys, I will be updating the guide for level 90. I'm not too worried about updating it for 5.0/level 85. Numbers are still being balanced so I'm going to wait another week or so before finalizing anything.

    In case you're curious, however, here's the stat weights that are being tossed around for SimCraft:

    Weights : Int=4.65(0.04) Spi=4.85(0.04) SP=3.55(0.04) Hit=4.85(0.04) Crit=3.12(0.04) Haste=2.51(0.04) Mastery=2.52(0.04)
    PT 1. Normalizing these stat weights I came up with:

    INT: 1.00
    SPI: 1.04
    SP: 0.76
    HIT: 1.04
    CRIT: 0.67
    HASTE: 0.54
    MAST: 0.54

    PT 2. Secondary stats on MoP Gems have been increased to make them more attractive.
    EX: RED- INT: 160 INT
    ORANGE- INT/CRIT: 80 INT/160 CRIT
    YELLOW- CRIT: 320 CRIT

    PT 3. Applying these stat weights to the gems to see which is more powerful.

    INT- 160*1 = 160
    INT/CRIT- 80*1=80 + 160*0.67=107.2 == 187.2
    CRIT- 320*0.67= 214.4

    PT 4. The big WTF moment when I noticed Crit gems were possibly better than Int gems and the only time we would use a red socket/socket bonus was if it add at least a +42 Int socket bonus.


    Am I correct in this? Or did I mess up somewhere?
    >(^v^)< <(^v^)> >(^v^)< <(^v^)> ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^ ^(^v^)v <(^v^<) <(___)> (>^v^)> <(^v^)> >(^v^)< ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^
    - Moonkin Dance: It's better than yours

    My Armory

  4. #324
    No, you are correct.

    From the moment you normalize stats against 1 Intel and you have anything above 0.5, it's quite obvious that when you have available gems with Stat 2:1 Intel, then stat will always win.

    We had the same with Haste in cata only that we didn't have inflated secondary stat gems so it was only applicable to single-slot yellows (+10 Intel).

    I really don't get where Blizzard is going with this. They didn't like mindless red-gemming so they made them yellow?...I mean how is it for other classes?


  5. #325
    At 90 with full 463 you have roughly 11000 -5200(for hit)= ~5800 points from secondary stats. The first dot breakpoint is at 5273. With crit rated higher than haste, i dont believe that we will go for the first (10 ticks) breakpoint in the beginning.

    At t14 bis we got ~17000-5200=11800. Maybe at this gear lvl we can go for the first breakpoint.
    Thoughts?

  6. #326
    The Patient Kritkin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post

    I really don't get where Blizzard is going with this. They didn't like mindless red-gemming so they made them yellow?...I mean how is it for other classes?
    I think they are trying to take away from ALL casters gemming straight INT. At one point, Brilliant Queen's Garnet on my server was 1500g, While Reckless Lava Coral was only 250g. By increasing demand on secondary stats, they are making the economy more diverse. And as far as I am currently aware, boomkin is the only class in which this is true.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-09 at 03:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Teph View Post
    At 90 with full 463 you have roughly 11000 -5200(for hit)= ~5800 points from secondary stats. The first dot breakpoint is at 5273. With crit rated higher than haste, i dont believe that we will go for the first (10 ticks) breakpoint in the beginning.

    At t14 bis we got ~17000-5200=11800. Maybe at this gear lvl we can go for the first breakpoint.
    Thoughts?
    Keep in mind you can only reforge 40% of those secondary stats, and without looking at itemization, I would say we prolly won't see that breakpoint until T15
    >(^v^)< <(^v^)> >(^v^)< <(^v^)> ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^ ^(^v^)v <(^v^<) <(___)> (>^v^)> <(^v^)> >(^v^)< ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^
    - Moonkin Dance: It's better than yours

    My Armory

  7. #327
    Deleted
    With a haste-oriented gearing, engineering helm, crafted gloves and chest and the 476 staff from 5-man Scholomance i could get 5247 haste and hit capped. I used one pure haste gem in the belt, otherwise int+haste gems in two yellow slots. Pretty darn close, and with another haste gem or the 476 5-man ring you are there!

  8. #328
    The Patient Kritkin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by chinobar View Post
    With a haste-oriented gearing, engineering helm, crafted gloves and chest and the 476 staff from 5-man Scholomance i could get 5247 haste and hit capped. I used one pure haste gem in the belt, otherwise int+haste gems in two yellow slots. Pretty darn close, and with another haste gem or the 476 5-man ring you are there!
    This is not optimal. All that extra haste is wasted for an extra tick, vs going for crit and increasing crit% on all your attacks, and increasing the chance of proccing insta-starsurges from dot crits. Dot uptime will not be a problem then. Between faster eclipses and our 4-set bonus, you should almost always have both dots up without needing to refresh between eclipses, and if it does fall off, it's not worth the GCD to reapply.
    >(^v^)< <(^v^)> >(^v^)< <(^v^)> ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^ ^(^v^)v <(^v^<) <(___)> (>^v^)> <(^v^)> >(^v^)< ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^
    - Moonkin Dance: It's better than yours

    My Armory

  9. #329
    The Patient Kritkin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart471 View Post
    Made some small changes regarding gemming. Clarified that red gems are desired in all slots unless you're getting a +20 int/gem bonus for blue, or +10 int/gem bonus for yellow.
    I'm sorry do what? and no that is incorrect now. Why are you quoting from the front page of this guide that is now almost 2 years old?
    Last edited by Kritkin; 2012-09-14 at 03:01 AM.
    >(^v^)< <(^v^)> >(^v^)< <(^v^)> ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^ ^(^v^)v <(^v^<) <(___)> (>^v^)> <(^v^)> >(^v^)< ^(^v^)v v(^v^)^
    - Moonkin Dance: It's better than yours

    My Armory

  10. #330
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Krit View Post
    This is not optimal. All that extra haste is wasted for an extra tick, vs going for crit and increasing crit% on all your attacks, and increasing the chance of proccing insta-starsurges from dot crits. Dot uptime will not be a problem then. Between faster eclipses and our 4-set bonus, you should almost always have both dots up without needing to refresh between eclipses, and if it does fall off, it's not worth the GCD to reapply.
    Never did i say it was optimal, merely pointing out that it was not so impossible to reach early on.
    But when i after this looked into the crafted gear i realized its not something you'll be able to get very early on with how the reputation for that faction works.

  11. #331
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,882
    I'm beginning to update the guide for 5.0. Anything below the large 'Guide Breakpoint' is still 4.0 data that I haven't had time to update yet. For any data above the breakpoint, please provide feedback. I've been a bit out of the loop on some of the finer points of rating values, etc, so I've been scouring Google for the correct data. If anything looks incorrect, please let me know.
    Sunfyre | @FoGSunfyre

  12. #332
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    I'm beginning to update the guide for 5.0. Anything below the large 'Guide Breakpoint' is still 4.0 data that I haven't had time to update yet. For any data above the breakpoint, please provide feedback. I've been a bit out of the loop on some of the finer points of rating values, etc, so I've been scouring Google for the correct data. If anything looks incorrect, please let me know.
    To provide some feedback.

    It would be great if you could say if it is worth going for a breakpoint or not. You said that the value of haste changes when we reach a breakpoint, but would it be worth reforging crit -> haste if we could get another dot tick ? (Or gemming haste to reach the 5273 haste)

    Somewhere in the druid forums I red (maybe even this thread) that we should never reforge crit->haste even if we could reach a breakpoint. Do you have any data that confirms that?

    Anything else till the breakpoint seems to be fine.

  13. #333
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,882
    Quote Originally Posted by McWire View Post
    To provide some feedback.

    It would be great if you could say if it is worth going for a breakpoint or not. You said that the value of haste changes when we reach a breakpoint, but would it be worth reforging crit -> haste if we could get another dot tick ? (Or gemming haste to reach the 5273 haste)

    Somewhere in the druid forums I red (maybe even this thread) that we should never reforge crit->haste even if we could reach a breakpoint. Do you have any data that confirms that?

    Anything else till the breakpoint seems to be fine.
    I think the lower breakpoints will be very easy to hit even without reforging, but I don't think it's worth reforging a ton of crit away for the extreme breakpoints.
    Sunfyre | @FoGSunfyre

  14. #334
    On a somewhat unrelated note, wouldn't it be better to make a new thread for the 5.0 guide?

    I could imagine that 16 pages of unrelated and outdated discussion would be rather confusing to newcomers.

  15. #335
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,882
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    On a somewhat unrelated note, wouldn't it be better to make a new thread for the 5.0 guide?

    I could imagine that 16 pages of unrelated and outdated discussion would be rather confusing to newcomers.
    There is some good 5.0 discussion in here. When the guide is done this week I'll ask a moderator to blow up the non5.0 posts.
    Sunfyre | @FoGSunfyre

  16. #336
    Well, that works too.

  17. #337
    The Patient Aveykin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Aerie Peak - US
    Posts
    234
    Just resubbed for the first time since T11. Still kind of reeling from all of the changes, glad to see you're still here and contributing Sunfyre. (:

    Give me a few days to figure all of this out again and I should be able to contribute.

    Aerie Peak 90 / 90 / 90 / 90 / 90 / 90 / 86 / 90 / 90 Kel'Thuzad 90 Tichondrius 90 / 90

  18. #338
    Dreadlord KDSwain's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Formerly of the People's Republic of Illinois
    Posts
    778
    I'm going Balance for my OS in MoP for leveling. This is the first time I have ever tried it and am still working out the basics. So far I am just concentrating on moving the bar from one Eclipse to the other and then hitting anything that procs while keeping Moonfire and Sunfire up on as many mobs as I can. Any other suggestions?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville
    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -CS Lewis

  19. #339
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,882
    Added bits to the guide regarding stat weighting as well as gems/gem weights/talents.

    Want to get a bit more dungeons out of the way before I lock down the exact rotation and feel comfortable saying "this is how you should do it". I'll try to get it done this weekend. Work has been pretty busy for me lately on top of trying to level to 90 and gear up for raiding.
    Sunfyre | @FoGSunfyre

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Added bits to the guide regarding stat weighting as well as gems/gem weights/talents.

    Want to get a bit more dungeons out of the way before I lock down the exact rotation and feel comfortable saying "this is how you should do it". I'll try to get it done this weekend. Work has been pretty busy for me lately on top of trying to level to 90 and gear up for raiding.

    How should we gem? When is it worth it to gem something else than crit? The bonus is usually 60 intellect which is quite a lot

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •