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  1. #61
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrusaurus View Post
    For the sake of clarity, especially for people new to the spec, you should probably indicate that furor and BotG are also optional talents. Possibly also mentioning the strength of perseverance in a Raid setting.
    I'm personally not a huge fan of Perseverence, to be honest. It's much less then 6% reduction, and most damage in Firelands is either designed to kill you because you stepped in something really bad, or it's massive raid damage which you will be receiving massive raid healing. The innate magic damage reduction from Moonkin form will prevent you from being the first dead. If you die due to too much damage, half the raid will have been dead before you and it was a healing issue. I have never picked up Persevrence and never die early to things unless I totally boned something up and had an instant kill type of situation. BotG may be a minimal dps increase, but it's still a dps increase.

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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    I'm personally not a huge fan of Perseverence, to be honest. It's much less then 6% reduction, and most damage in Firelands is either designed to kill you because you stepped in something really bad, or it's massive raid damage which you will be receiving massive raid healing. The innate magic damage reduction from Moonkin form will prevent you from being the first dead. If you die due to too much damage, half the raid will have been dead before you and it was a healing issue. I have never picked up Persevrence and never die early to things unless I totally boned something up and had an instant kill type of situation. BotG may be a minimal dps increase, but it's still a dps increase.
    You can have 2/3 Pers. and 2/2 BotG without sacrificing dps talents in the Balance tree. Other than that, I find your reasoning very odd. At the margin, Perseverance WILL save your life, and you give up practically nothing, assuming you don't need mana talents - which you don't if you do raiding at this point.

    Frankly, 2/2 Feral Swiftness is more interesting than 2/2 Furor at this point.
    Last edited by Pokty; 2011-10-20 at 12:19 AM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokty View Post
    You can have 2/3 Pers. and 2/2 BotG without sacrificing dps talents in the Balance tree. Other than that, I find your reasoning very odd. At the margin, Perseverance WILL save your life, and you give up practically nothing, assuming you don't need mana talents - which you don't if you do raiding at this point.
    its a waste to take the dmg reduction as most dmg is avoidable and the dmg not avoidable you will be getting healed anyway, every moonkin should have 2 points in furor also for the utilty and mana talents are needed especially on fights you sit in solar and raggy hc where you use hurricane as much as your mana pool allows.

    on a fight like baleroc you can moonfire/sunfire around 20 times, that does around 240k dmg so 6%of that is around 14.5k so there is also no need to pick up BotG.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2011-10-20 at 12:27 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    its a waste to take the dmg reduction as most dmg is avoidable and the dmg not avoidable you will be getting healed anyway, every moonkin should have 2 points in furor also for the utilty and mana talents are needed especially on fights you sit in solar and raggy hc where you use hurricane as much as your mana pool allows.
    What kind of utility does Furor add?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokty View Post
    Frankly, 2/2 Feral Swiftness is more interesting than 2/2 Furor at this point.
    i use this spec on Rag Heroic, where i get asked to do dreadflame. that, plus sprint and stampeding roar and rocket belt....
    it's hard to let dreadflame get out of control
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530
    *snip*mana talents are needed especially on fights you sit in solar and raggy hc where you use hurricane as much as your mana pool allows.
    the points in furor are not there for your benefit (mana wise at least). you probably hurricane 3 times on Rag heroic, the other casts of your innervate (2-3) should be going to healers. 1 innervate during seeds phase will keep you going perfectly fine.
    1/3 furor furor does allow cat>stampeding roar on seed phase, without waiting for energy, which is useful

  6. #66
    You don't need to use the cat form Stampeding Roar, though. Bear form, Enrage (off the GCD), Stampeding Roar. Saves you from needing/wanting points in Furor.

  7. #67
    I cant get why in this guide the creator puts 1 point in sunfire, what's the benefit of that?

    Az!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    And when you see them you'll be all like :O and we'll be all like and then people on the forums will still be all like(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokty View Post
    What kind of utility does Furor add?
    furor adds the ability to use stamp roar without waiting for your energy to charge up, feral swiftness is only usefull if your doing dreadflame on ragg hc so otherwise its pointless as all other fights in FL apart from ragg you can just pop travel form for a few secs if you need to move somewhere fast, stam roar is useful on several fights and its good to have even if you dont use it much.

    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    the points in furor are not there for your benefit (mana wise at least). you probably hurricane 3 times on Rag heroic, the other casts of your innervate (2-3) should be going to healers. 1 innervate during seeds phase will keep you going perfectly fine. 1/3 furor furor does allow cat>stampeding roar on seed phase, without waiting for energy, which is useful
    the points in furor are there for your benefit and also the raids benefit, innervate is next to useless on a healer anyway as its only around 6k mana, there is not really much available to spend the points you have spare as its a choice between a damage reduction, a very slight damage increase or a little extra mana.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2011-10-20 at 03:19 PM.

  9. #69
    furor adds the ability to use stamp roar without waiting for your energy to charge up, feral swiftness is only usefull if your doing dreadflame on ragg hc so otherwise its pointless as all other fights in FL apart from ragg you can just pop travel form for a few secs if you need to move somewhere fast, stam roar is useful on several fights and its good to have even if you dont use it much.
    Bear form -> Enrage -> Roar.

    No need for Furor.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael1985 View Post
    I cant get why in this guide the creator puts 1 point in sunfire, what's the benefit of that?

    Az!
    Trolling? Its so that it benefits from the Eclipse you are in, Sunfire means nature damage, which means it benefits from solar eclipse

  11. #71
    I'm not trolling, just asked because the talent have no explanation at all, reason because i skipped him. It seems that i need to respec to get it.

    Az!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    And when you see them you'll be all like :O and we'll be all like and then people on the forums will still be all like(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael1985 View Post
    I'm not trolling, just asked because the talent have no explanation at all, reason because i skipped him. It seems that i need to respec to get it.

    Az!
    Yea sorry about that, I don't want to be deemed rude etc. I hadn't looked at the talent in ages so forgot it didn't mention anything. But yes, spec to get sunfire, it's pretty much mandatory.

  13. #73
    It's ok, maybe that was something that everybody knows, is just that im not afraid to ask even the more dumbest things just to be sure.

    I've respecced with some twists to the spec, 3 / 3 furor for instant stampiding and bash if needed, just in case. This time, i got Sunfire =), thanks a lot.

    Az!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    And when you see them you'll be all like :O and we'll be all like and then people on the forums will still be all like(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  14. #74
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Hello,

    My druid is Psychlone on Barthilas (link), I logged out in my Moonkin gear. At the moment when I dps on a dummy without using Starfall to obscure any numbers - I am doing 13k dps. In FL it gets even worse. I need to know if my gear is resulting in this sub-par dps or I should be looking into my technique/skill level.

    I realise my staff is not optimally enchanted - but with all the SP staves/options in FL I was waiting until I got a better drop before spending my wad.

    So ultimately my question is this, in the gear that I have what is the DPS I should be expected to do - approximations is fine.
    Secondly, if I was to by a DMC Volcano would it increase my DPS dramatically?
    Adding bewbs to his Avatar since 2011

  15. #75
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the9tail View Post
    Hello,

    My druid is Psychlone on Barthilas (link), I logged out in my Moonkin gear. At the moment when I dps on a dummy without using Starfall to obscure any numbers - I am doing 13k dps. In FL it gets even worse. I need to know if my gear is resulting in this sub-par dps or I should be looking into my technique/skill level.

    I realise my staff is not optimally enchanted - but with all the SP staves/options in FL I was waiting until I got a better drop before spending my wad.

    So ultimately my question is this, in the gear that I have what is the DPS I should be expected to do - approximations is fine.
    Secondly, if I was to by a DMC Volcano would it increase my DPS dramatically?
    Your gear is pretty weak for Firelands, and you're not hitcapped. You have plenty of hit on your gear but you're reforging it away. That's bad. Once you hit hitcap, and as you can, you want to replace your purple gems with straight red ones, while maintaining the hitcap.

    Your gear is resulting in sub-par DPS, but your rotation/skill level may also have something to do with that -- as I can't see your rotations, the only thing I have to judge your "skill level" is by gear/gem/reforge choices, which are a bit weak. Just trying to be constructive. That being said, I suggest you look at improving your gear, farm valor points for the tier pieces, and look at reforging/etc to get into a more optimum setup. At the same time, there's plenty of videos posted on YouTube, including a few linked in the guide, that should help you with your technique/rotation/etc.

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  16. #76
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Thanks, I am thinking my rotation is correct going by your videos and suggestions.
    I'll reforge my gear as you suggested.
    But on an easy target dummy, where hit isnt an issue my dps is 13k - should it be higher?
    Adding bewbs to his Avatar since 2011

  17. #77
    Without any logs and going deep into it:
    1) drop Stump of Time get DMCV
    2) get hit caped 17% 1742 rating
    3) drop Glyph of Focus You probably lose more dmg with stars you dont hit because your out of range than gain from the 10% stronger ones
    4) drop lunar shower and never ever ever ever take it, it was a great talent till 4.1 but 4.2 killed it...

    13k on dummies is prety low even with that gear.
    And if you do more on dummies than you do with full raid buffs than it is skill related and probably means you mess up your rotation (wich probably isnt perfect any way) when you have to move/change targets etc.
    Read the guide in the first post wach the videos and try doing that on the dummies for 10-15min every day. When you get to the point you dont have to think about it and just do it atomatically it will be much easier to focus on staing alive and reacting to whatever the boss does without losing dps.
    Former BOOMkin bad ass...

  18. #78
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the9tail View Post
    Thanks, I am thinking my rotation is correct going by your videos and suggestions.
    I'll reforge my gear as you suggested.
    But on an easy target dummy, where hit isnt an issue my dps is 13k - should it be higher?
    It sounds low. I know when I came back to playing this summer I was in pretty much 346 gear with just a few 359 pieces and I was hitting about 18-19k on the dummy. I was doing 12-13k on the dummy in 4.0 with BIS ICC gear in WOTLK, so I think you have a bit to go.

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  19. #79
    What kind of changes would you make to the BiS list for someone walking into H Rag?

  20. #80
    Blademaster Honko's Avatar
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    OMG! It's a Champ^^

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