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  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    INC is better for multidot fights. FoN is better for single target fights. However, on Jin'rohk with the +dmg pools INC+NV should work better. And FoN work really good on Council. As for legendary meta it does ad up a lot of dps for moonkins tho don't worry about it in regards of using FoN. FoN acts strage with big amounts of haste (I hope Blizzard will figure it out soon and fix it)
    The pools in Jin'rohk give "only" a 40% damage increase and it was simulated that FoN would be around 2.5 times better to Incarnation in pure single target fights. The 40% isn't enough to make Incarnation better.

    For Council, why on earth would you take FoN? For 4 targets, Incarnation is better in simulations and FoN doesn't even work at it's optimal capacity when switching targets. Especially if you have the fight last just over 3.5/6.5/etc. minutes, Incarnation shines even more.

    About the haste bugging, they only happen when the treants' cast gets below 0.5 seconds. This is very rarely the case and should be considered only under the effects of Bloodlust/TW/Heroism, the meta gem and Nature's Grace.

  2. #902
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    The pools in Jin'rohk give "only" a 40% damage increase and it was simulated that FoN would be around 2.5 times better to Incarnation in pure single target fights. The 40% isn't enough to make Incarnation better.

    For Council, why on earth would you take FoN? For 4 targets, Incarnation is better in simulations and FoN doesn't even work at it's optimal capacity when switching targets. Especially if you have the fight last just over 3.5/6.5/etc. minutes, Incarnation shines even more.

    About the haste bugging, they only happen when the treants' cast gets below 0.5 seconds. This is very rarely the case and should be considered only under the effects of Bloodlust/TW/Heroism, the meta gem and Nature's Grace.
    I am not sure FoN benefits from any dmg boost typical to the encounter. I've done Jin'rohk twice with FoN and I had much worse dps than with Incarnation.

    As for Council, even tho there are multiple targets, you will always focus more on one for longer periods of time between refreshing DoTs. Treants tend to stay on your main target if you only switch to others to refresh DoTs. Also, in my experinece I had better dps with FoN than Incarantion there. Maybe it's the case of my guild's tactic in which I can't always DoT all targets except for the first phase of the encounter (before first posses switch).

    Simulations are one thing but then not all guilds do encounters in the same manner and it's good to find your best fitting talents.

  3. #903
    When should I change to 10k haste breakpoint?
    Right now I have 31,17 % crit chance. Isn't that a bit too much? I mean, won't I have too much wasted procced starsurges?

    You can check my gear on my signature (Kineta).

  4. #904
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoshi View Post
    When should I change to 10k haste breakpoint?
    Right now I have 31,17 % crit chance. Isn't that a bit too much? I mean, won't I have too much wasted procced starsurges?

    You can check my gear on my signature (Kineta).
    You'd be perfectly fine to switch now

  5. #905
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    You'd be perfectly fine to switch now
    Thank you very much for the answer!

  6. #906
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    You'd be perfectly fine to switch now
    The 10k haste cap is at exaclty 10k haste//

  7. #907
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todoida View Post
    The 10k haste cap is at exaclty 10k haste//
    10296 - it's GCD cap with NG

  8. #908
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    10296 - it's GCD cap with NG
    What Lilija said. I think people just write 10k haste because it's shorter to type than "10296 GCD cap".

    The other number thrown around is 10289, which is the haste breakpoint with NG. The two numbers are so close they're essentially interchangeable.

  9. #909
    Thanks for the guide this helped me so much!

  10. #910
    Blademaster Prisefighter's Avatar
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    Can someone clarify the proper way to use FoN?

    I have been popping all three on the pull because typically all trinkets are up, and a lot of times lust is up as well. After that I am using FoN anytime a trink procs unless all three charges are about to come off CD, in which case I'll use 1 on a new eclipse, and then back to popping all of them when big trinkets proc. Is this a correct usage of FoN? If not, what is the most optimal way?

    Also does it make sense for WrathCalcs to show SoF as a dps increase over Incarnation?

    My character is Grimbeorn on Frostmane - US. This is my alt, and I'd appreciate any advise you may have.

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by Prisefighter View Post
    Can someone clarify the proper way to use FoN?

    I have been popping all three on the pull because typically all trinkets are up, and a lot of times lust is up as well. After that I am using FoN anytime a trink procs unless all three charges are about to come off CD, in which case I'll use 1 on a new eclipse, and then back to popping all of them when big trinkets proc. Is this a correct usage of FoN? If not, what is the most optimal way?

    Also does it make sense for WrathCalcs to show SoF as a dps increase over Incarnation?

    My character is Grimbeorn on Frostmane - US. This is my alt, and I'd appreciate any advise you may have.
    The most important buff is the Meta. After that try to align them with at least 1 more buff from trinkets (so total 2/3 of main procs) but that best would be Meta+2xTrinkets+JadeSpirit but with RPPM procs you won't usually have that beyond the opener.

  12. #912
    Blademaster Prisefighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    The most important buff is the Meta. After that try to align them with at least 1 more buff from trinkets (so total 2/3 of main procs) but that best would be Meta+2xTrinkets+JadeSpirit but with RPPM procs you won't usually have that beyond the opener.
    Yeah ok. Well this being my alt, I'm a ways off with my Meta. Thanks.

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Prisefighter View Post
    Yeah ok. Well this being my alt, I'm a ways off with my Meta. Thanks.
    Substitute Meta with Nature's Grace then I only didn't mention it because it's pretty much always up

  14. #914
    FoN fixed, the patch notes said. My treants fire off 10 wraths each during opener. At that point I'm sitting at 95% haste - 10k + NG + meta. How many casts can be expected from these buggerrs? I really like them, and I use them for every fight in ToT. Inc is not an option for me anymore. Since they have to be used differently to get a decent result (with procs), it's easy to reduce their effect. Maybe I'm just old, but really, they are cute! How can you be an owl and not prefer FoN over Inc? It's beyond me. I just wish they were pink to match my transmog.

    How do these latest changes to FoN change the game between FoN and Inc?

  15. #915
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    So far I have been a lazy owl and just macroed FoN with every spell so I don't have to worry about them. However, I'd like to start optimizing them more and would love my WeakAuras to aid me with it. Anyone could share their WA aura for FoN that includes stacks? What I want to achieve is to have an aura that will let me know when I have 3 stacks and few of the buffs. I will manage conditioning buffs, however, I don't know how to condition stacks.

  16. #916
    This might not be the appropriate place to ask, but maybe someone can help me.

    How would I go about making SimulationCraft simulate my dps while using Faerie Fire every 30 seconds?
    Putting an "action" line in the Simulation tab would probably be the thing, but I have no idea how to formulate it.

    10 man raiding guild and I just need hard numbers on why our moonkin should (or very unlikely shouldn't) use Faerie Fire for increased raid dps.

  17. #917
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeahbaby View Post
    This might not be the appropriate place to ask, but maybe someone can help me.

    How would I go about making SimulationCraft simulate my dps while using Faerie Fire every 30 seconds?
    Putting an "action" line in the Simulation tab would probably be the thing, but I have no idea how to formulate it.

    10 man raiding guild and I just need hard numbers on why our moonkin should (or very unlikely shouldn't) use Faerie Fire for increased raid dps.
    Elongating cycle length by a second (the better gear he has the less of an impact it'll have per cycle) reduces DPS by around 3%. If your raid gets more than ~3% of your boomkin's DPS from the buff being active, then it should be better overall. Faerie Fire is a little tenuous to keep up 100% so just be forewarned, especially if your Boomkin is sour about applying it.

  18. #918
    The Boomkin is actually me

    Using sims, it would be around a 5400 personal dps loss if we're using the 3% number (which is very close to what I was seeing when I added 1 second of movement every 30 seconds so it makes sense I guess).
    Seeing as just our hunter gains about the same (~5400 dps) from just having the armor debuff on sims I don't really have a reason not to keep it up 100% seeing as we have the hunter, a rogue and 2 tanks (dk pala) gaining from it. And sometimes a dk dps as well.

    I started raiding again recently and got told it wouldn't make much of a difference (because so much of rogue, dk and pala damage is elemental/magical) so I haven't been using it since personal dps is funsies, but I don't really want to try to justify it longer when it's clearly a raid dps gain
    Last edited by Yeahbaby; 2013-06-08 at 11:16 PM.

  19. #919
    You should probably convince your Rogue to use Expose Armor instead. I'm guessing it's less of a DPS-decrease for him than it will be for you.

  20. #920
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    Updated the OP with stat/talent changes for 5.3! Also fixed some formatting issues.

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