[Moonkin] Guide :: 5.4 Edition

[Deleted]

You want CA to be entirely contained in the duration of Incarnation. You want Berserking and CA to be up simultaneously.

Whether CA happens at the beginning or the end of Incarnation is secondary, though you want to time it such that you can fit a full Lunar eclipse in as well(or Solar if for some reason you want to AE).

Thank you for a clear answer, Huth

[Glurp]

I honestly don't care how credible you think my posts are. I simply tried to help you out with giving you information you asked for and you ignored it 3 times and kept insisting that you were correct, despite the fact you openly admitted you haven't actually played the game for ages. It gets a bit frustrating when someone tries to tell you that you're wrong and ignores everything you say when they are the one who asked for help because they didn't actually know in the first place.

If you insist on using a stupid macro then sure I don't care what you do but it's never going to be optimal, as I explained before.

A lot of players have them separated because the duration isn't the same on berserkingh as CA. Idk best way to explain because it's situationnal but there's a lot of trinket proc with 10second duration and you gonna want the berserk buff on last ca application w/ that trinket and ur glove ofc. like for expamle the totem or a chyes

seperate bind all the cooldown to cometate for all situation otherwidse it can suffer dmaage

The first thing you want to do once you Activate Celesial Alignment is reapply you DoTs and you want to have Berserking up when applying those DoTs. There is literally no realistic situation that I can think of where you wouldn't want to activate them at the same time.

[Aboubacar]

Mindlessly macroing stuff together because it's easy = bad/suboptimal. Berserking shouldn't be macroed to CA. Yes, there's a lot of situations where you can/should use the two at the same time, but due to the shorter duration of berserking always using them together is wrong.

[Talisman]

Fellow Boomies!!

For FoN and HoTW, are they best used together? I mean, keep popping treants for the duration of HoTW?

And For Inc & HoTW, same logic as well? That is pop them together?

[Deleted]

No, save HotW for Mooncatting or when your raid needs your power-tranq & super-juves.

You're not supposed to use HotW as a DPS-increase together with the treants, its more a raid-utility.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't care how credible you think my posts are. I simply tried to help you out with giving you information you asked for and you ignored it 3 times and kept insisting that you were correct, despite the fact you openly admitted you haven't actually played the game for ages. It gets a bit frustrating when someone tries to tell you that you're wrong and ignores everything you say when they are the one who asked for help because they didn't actually know in the first place.

If you insist on using a stupid macro then sure I don't care what you do but it's never going to be optimal, as I explained before.

This is you being helpful? "NO NO NO NO NO"?

Yes, I did openly admit that I haven't played this game for over two years - but I am also not excactly new to the game, or to moonkins. I also just admitted that I misunderstood your post. If you want to help people - and I'm sure you do - then a bit of patience goes a long way.

If your approach to helping is "No no no no no, you're not getting it!! /rage" rather than "No, what I meant was.." then you are bound to be frustrated. And that helps nobody. If I didn't value the answers I get in here, then I wouldn't be here - but you can be damn sure that I'll keep asking if I don't understand what I am being told.

[Glurp]

Mindlessly macroing stuff together because it's easy = bad/suboptimal. Berserking shouldn't be macroed to CA. Yes, there's a lot of situations where you can/should use the two at the same time, but due to the shorter duration of berserking always using them together is wrong.

Ok just give me some time to become a psychic so I can predict when my trinket is going to proc. As I said, I'm sure you can think of some retarded situations just to attempt to prove yourself correct but there is no realistic situation where you will need to delay Berserking.

[huth]

He could at least keep proportions between CA and Berserking. According to that graph, Berserking is only 7.5s long.

[Aboubacar]

Ok just give me some time to become a psychic so I can predict when my trinket is going to proc. As I said, I'm sure you can think of some retarded situations just to attempt to prove yourself correct but there is no realistic situation where you will need to delay Berserking.

lol that's the point you hold it if there's no proc. It's called reacting to the situation.
@huth it's a rough example, but idk why i bother. lazy will be lazy and not care just because it's a "small gain"

[Glurp]

lol that's the point you hold it if there's no proc. It's called reacting to the situation.
@huth it's a rough example, but idk why i bother. lazy will be lazy and not care just because it's a "small gain"

So you hold your Berserking, lowering your DPS, in hope that the stars will align and you'll actually end up with a marginal gain from it? That makes no sense.

[Fizzlekin]

I don't understand how having it macro'd with your CA make you lazy and a bad balance druid. If you are using the solar opener you would have your trinkets proc, which in turn means it's the most optimal time to use berserking. Now I do understand that how not using it with CA after the opener could not have the largest dps gains, but in theory you are relying on RNG that could or couldn't happen. Also, for some fights popping CDs relies on the boss fight, so either way you should be popping everything you have for those type of phases. I mean you can hold your berserking all you want in hopes that you can get more return out of it, but there's always the chance that a better opportunity might not present itself, meaning that the smartest thing a player could do, is use it when they know they will have an buff such as with CA and INC rather than waiting for a trinket to proc to increase damage even more.

[Aboubacar]

So you hold your Berserking, lowering your DPS, in hope that the stars will align and you'll actually end up with a marginal gain from it? That makes no sense.

Idk how much more I need to explain to make it clear so I try one last time.
Trinkets:
1. Don't always proc on the pull
2. Aren't always procced during start/end of CA

I am trying to explain why you shouldn't macro the two together and use 2 seperate keybinds and use berserking as you see fit based on proc events at the time. Unlike a lot of players I don't just pop everything the same way every time, rather adapt to the situation at hand.

Remember, this is the key thing you don't understand : you can still use it at the start of CA or hold till the last 10seconds or bump it back further to only overlap the first CA application so that you get more proc+inc casts off+the initial CA application.


Here's another rough example:



In the pic zerk could have theoretically been bumped back to overlap toxic power buffed nukes + initial ca application, but the amp trinket had yet to proc and toxic totem does tend to double proc in the opener. You'll find that if you look at logs it's actually almost always ideal to stagger berserking at least a little with CA rather than macroing it together.

usually it's just before CA that's ideal not what i showed in the "graph", but it's a common example of what happens w/ soo trinkets

- - - Updated - - -

Berserking and Celestial Alignment macroed together is fine. I don't know anyone who doesn't use that.

Lemme see probably every rank 1 balance druid if you check logs/twitch vods.

[Drayarr]

Qieth was once better than all of you - nuff said.

Give him a week and he'll be top of the pile again.

[Juvencus]

Qieth was once better than all of you - nuff said.

Give him a week and he'll be top of the pile again.

Suck up!

/derail off

[Glurp]

You can add as many lines to your stupid picture as you want but if that was actually in real time and not just your imagination trying to prove yourself right then you would see that the Berserking was delayed (which is a DPS loss) in hope that you got another proc. Your just taking a guaranteed DPS loss with a slight chance that it might be a tiny DPS increase.

Once again, We are not psychics.

Honestly the greatest part about your picture is that if Berserking's CD was actually synced with CA's then it would have been a massive DPS boost to use CA + Berserking together because you would have gotten CA + Berserking DoTs up with Toxic Power still up.


Also I can make pictures too:

[Aboubacar]

You can add as many lines to your stupid picture as you want but if that was actually in real time and not just your imagination trying to prove yourself right then you would see that the Berserking was delayed (which is a DPS loss) in hope that you got another proc.

Once again, We are not psychics.

omg dude... the idea is to react to your procs not predict that's my point.... by using ur berserking same freaking time every time ur assuming or hoping ur trinkets are going to be up at that time.

I'm simply saying macroing two together is a lot of the time not idea. Staggering it before slightly or after slightly is more ideal depending on what happens. Idk what you mean psychic? I said ur reacting to the proc there and changing the use based on what is happening not doing the same thing irregardless of your situation like a zombie.

let's see maybe r1 parse agree w/ this idea? it's like i'm trying to explain someone to something isn't even analyzing their sieation...
http://i.imgur.com/P9DsHOq.png

[durrtygoodz]

omg dude... the idea is to react to your procs not predict that's my point.... by using ur berserking same freaking time every time ur assuming or hoping ur trinkets are going to be up at that time.

I'm simply saying macroing two together is a lot of the time not idea. Staggering it before slightly or after slightly is more ideal depending on what happens. Idk what you mean psychic? I said ur reacting to the proc there and changing the use based on what is happening not doing the same thing irregardless of your situation like a zombie.

let's see maybe r1 parse agree w/ this idea?
http://i.imgur.com/P9DsHOq.png

Well first of all, looks like he ain't using the solar opener there, not sure why but it does change the use of Berserking slightly.

When hero and meta gem are up, you're already GCD capped. At this time, Berserking is giving you absolutely nothing besides the extra DoT ticks. At the start of a fight you put up DoTs twice with CA, once when you first apply and once right at the end of CA. So with troll racial you just choose, do you want the extra DoT ticks on the first set or 2nd set? I guess it doesn't really matter. By your logic, you're saying that you want Berserking for your SECOND application of DoTs, because that's when you have the most procs up. For me though, I get my meta + Cha -Ye's up at the pull for my first DoTs, Bindings may not be up right away but it will definitely be up for the next dot application because it has a duration longer of that of CA.

I cba making a fancy paint ting like you to explain better but what I'm saying is Berserking really doesn't serve much use when GCD capped and spamming a lot of SS, so the main use is for more ticks = more SS during CA + Inc. Doesn't matter whether you do it with first set of DoTs or 2nd.

[Aboubacar]

Well first of all, looks like he ain't using the solar opener there, not sure why but it does change the use of Berserking slightly.

When hero and meta gem are up, you're already GCD capped. At this time, Berserking is giving you absolutely nothing besides the extra DoT ticks. At the start of a fight you put up DoTs twice with CA, once when you first apply and once right at the end of CA. So with troll racial you just choose, do you want the extra DoT ticks on the first set or 2nd set? I guess it doesn't really matter. By your logic, you're saying that you want Berserking for your SECOND application of DoTs, because that's when you have the most procs up. For me though, I get my meta + Cha -Ye's up at the pull for my first DoTs, Bindings may not be up right away but it will definitely be up for the next dot application because it has a duration longer of that of CA.

I cba making a fancy paint ting like you to explain better but what I'm saying is Berserking really doesn't serve much use when GCD capped and spamming a lot of SS, so the main use is for more ticks = more SS during CA + Inc. Doesn't matter whether you do it with first set of DoTs or 2nd.

its 2 or 3 fold, partially what you mentioned, yes meta is always up on the pull but there's bad luck w/ amp trinket proc at times doesnt proc for 10seconds or soemthing. a second application could potentially be avoided w/ insane SS procs as well

mainly im trying to say sure at times using the right together might work alright or even be ideal, but it's better not to macro the 2 for poitentaly beter cd usage.

the 2second scribble in paint was just trying to show u possibility, a likely possibly actualy not just randomn nonse, but im saying different situations ocur and ur zerk use is reactory to that..

[durrtygoodz]

its 2 or 3 fold, partially what you mentioned, yes meta is always up on the pull but there's bad luck w/ amp trinket proc at times doesnt proc for 10seconds or soemthing. a second application could potentially be avoided w/ insane SS procs as well

mainly im trying to say sure at times using the right together might work alright or even be ideal, but it's better not to macro the 2 for poitentaly beter cd usage.

the 2second scribble in paint was just trying to show u possibility, a likely possibly actualy not just randomn nonse, but im saying different situations ocur and ur zerk use is reactory to that..

Yeah Amp trinket usually isn't up for first DoT application with CA. You're right. But, I have other things up at the pull for the first DoT that will fall off before the end of CA. Jade spirit for example. Tailoring if one has it. Cha-Ye's isn't always back to back proccing for me, can't speak for totem because I haven't got it yet (sat for Shamans for 4 weeks whattup). So it's just a call whether you wanna buff your Amp dots with Zerking or your first DoTs. Seems like a lot of effort for potentially no reward. Also it's a waste to pop it when you're leaving CA since your Wrath casts will be pretty low imagine. 0.7-0.8?

[Glurp]

Pacteh is only swimming in top 3 parses because he's a lot more geared compared to all the other competitive Boomkins. I'm not saying he's bad (in fact he's very good) but honestly a lot of his high parsing logs have weird mistakes in them that wouldn't usually be in a rank 1 parse. Seeing as it is still progression time for most people, simply looking at the rank 1 parse for everything won't accomplish much.

Second of all about your statement of "the idea is to react to procs". You sort of just admitted you were wrong because you can't react to something before it happens so how does holding Berserking accomplish that?

I'm saying psychic because of statements you make like this:

Staggering it before slightly or after slightly is more ideal depending on what happens.

How are you meant to "react" to possibly having trinket procs in the future? Unless you are a psychic which apparently you are since you have some uncanny ability to know this.

There is a major flaw in your statements which you don't seem to understand so I'm going to try and explain why your train of thought makes no sense.

Your CA + Berserking will be synced together from the start of the fight using the Solar opener (which you should be using so don't try and give me some bullshit about what if you aren't using it.) From there I already explained a few lines up why delaying Berserking makes no sense which is when you tried to say that maybe you react to a trinket proc and use Berserking earlier, but how are you going to use Berserking earlier when it's CD is going to be syned with CA, meaning it won't be up until CA is up in which case if a trinket proc happens you can use both of them. From there your CA and Berserking CD will once again be synced up and the whole thing repeats itself.