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  1. #1821
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    one thing is for sure though.. you can kiss goodbye your expertise/crit gems

    dinomancer ring will get a boost to prevent hit capping.
    I try to avoid that to some degree already. I'll definately use exp/crit gems if its a huge stat (usually 200-300+ mastery) boost, or the reforge option is way better, otherwise I try to stick with int/crit. You can tweak AMR slightly and drop the value of mastery by .1 or so and look at some different setups, often to trade ~equal amounts of mastery to crit atm.

    I think every neck has hit or spirit, and all but 1 ring (dino as you mentioned) has spirit or hit, so it might be tight to not go over hit cap.

  2. #1822
    Mastery will possibly gain a lot of value on low movement fights but it likely won't be worth changing your gearing for as the amount of low movement fights in this tier is extremely low (even non-existent depending on your strat). Similar to what Ele Shamans have in that Haste is their best stat for pure single target but no one bothers changing gearing for it since Mastery is infinitely better for AoE/cleave.

    Trolls may want to look at the 10779 breakpoint which gives a breakpoint for Meta + Bloodlust + Berserking as well as 10681 which is Meta + Berserking as it may become difficult to actually drop your Haste down to the level it's at now with the increased stats on gear and higher amplification trinket value.

    If you can get one to play with it may be worth looking into Black Blood of Y'shaarjj too as fights will likely start dropping well under the 4 minute mark which means you miss out on the 3rd proc of Bindings which was generally lined up with your second use of cooldowns. I believe Black Blood's int proc also gains a lot of value for us as it shifts more of our total damage into the opener (with the 10779 breakpoint at 10 stack BBoY DoTs especially) which could work out well given shorter fight lengths. Also with increases stat levels on gear Bindings may lose a lot of value as the Spirit and Haste amplification lose value due to being way over cap (especially if you don't have a non-spirit offpiece and thok ring).
    Last edited by Glurp; 2014-05-14 at 05:51 AM.

  3. #1823
    Quote Originally Posted by Aboubacar View Post
    New upgrades going to change the BiS? at least im going to focus into more mastery now. Try to balance it out somewhat now, but even at 578 i cant really get too much crit because of super high movement fights like paragons and a bit of garrosh. Thoughts? maybe it will just be shifting to more mastery. I'd assume another haste BP is out of the picture?
    Mostly the next BP just isn't worth it. No real reason to prioritise mastery over crit, though.

  4. #1824
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    You say it's an increase but you don't mention how much of an increase. Personally I think you'd get more DPS by saving the SS proc for the 1.5 seconds so it did ~50% more damage in Eclipse.

    The first macro you linked really isn't worth suggesting to people because it's going to cause them more harm than good in 99.9% of situations because it messes with spell queuing. The second macro you linked I've never seen before so I tried it, it also works fine but it's impossible to queue spells due to it being a cast sequence so I don't see that ever being a DPS increase.
    You're maybe right on the SS-proc being in eclipse might be a DPS-boost. My theory was faster eclipse-cycles->more starfalls. Since I am currently playing with my crit rating at 12000 and going rest of it into mastery makes my starfall more powerful than others. I've tried 15000 critrating but saw an DPS-loss of about 30-40k.

    About the macros:
    I saw an DPS-boost of ~20k when i got these macros and i felt that it eased my playstyle as well. I am playing with less than 20ms home/world and on a 100/100 fiber-cable. The server being located about ~362km(225 miles) probably also makes a difference.

  5. #1825
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelios View Post
    You're maybe right on the SS-proc being in eclipse might be a DPS-boost. My theory was faster eclipse-cycles->more starfalls. Since I am currently playing with my crit rating at 12000 and going rest of it into mastery makes my starfall more powerful than others. I've tried 15000 critrating but saw an DPS-loss of about 30-40k.

    About the macros:
    I saw an DPS-boost of ~20k when i got these macros and i felt that it eased my playstyle as well. I am playing with less than 20ms home/world and on a 100/100 fiber-cable. The server being located about ~362km(225 miles) probably also makes a difference.
    Where and how long were your tests? Got an logs to share?

  6. #1826
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Where and how long were your tests? Got an logs to share?
    My tests has mainly been made while raiding. I've just compared two different weeks where i had 14000 and 13000 crit. Could probably do some test with Wrathcalcs/Simcraft but i don't have time or willingness as I am nowhere close to being a hardcore raider Just adding something to the discussion as i see every single boomkin stacking crit. I want to try something different.

    I got logs: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/kazzak/gelios/ Then go to 10 Heroic -> 8th of May is the day i tried out stacking crit instead of mastery on Immerseus, Protectors, Norushen, Sha of Pride, Galakras.

    I know that this is FAR away from being "enough" testing to prove my theory right
    Last edited by Gelios; 2014-05-14 at 10:39 PM.

  7. #1827
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelios View Post
    About the macros:
    I saw an DPS-boost of ~20k when i got these macros and i felt that it eased my playstyle as well. I am playing with less than 20ms home/world and on a 100/100 fiber-cable. The server being located about ~362km(225 miles) probably also makes a difference.
    I saw a DPS loss of ~150k when I tested the castsequence macro 5 different times on a dummy. It works as advertised and It definitely cut down a lot on SS proc wastage but losing the ability to queue spells hurts DPS so much it's not even worth considering. Possibly it is due to me playing on 400ms while you with 20ms are fine, however I have no personal reference as to how latency effects gameplay and spell queuing so I wouldn't know.

  8. #1828
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I saw a DPS loss of ~150k when I tested the castsequence macro 5 different times on a dummy. It works as advertised and It definitely cut down a lot on SS proc wastage but losing the ability to queue spells hurts DPS so much it's not even worth considering. Possibly it is due to me playing on 400ms while you with 20ms are fine, however I have no personal reference as to how latency effects gameplay and spell queuing so I wouldn't know.
    I definitely liked using the /cancelqueuedspell macro but I stopped using it as it would sometimes break midfight making me unable to cast Starsurge and having to open the spellbook >.<

    I know it's not a valid reason but I don't know if it's the nature of the macro that breaks it or one of my million addons...

  9. #1829
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I saw a DPS loss of ~150k when I tested the castsequence macro 5 different times on a dummy. It works as advertised and It definitely cut down a lot on SS proc wastage but losing the ability to queue spells hurts DPS so much it's not even worth considering. Possibly it is due to me playing on 400ms while you with 20ms are fine, however I have no personal reference as to how latency effects gameplay and spell queuing so I wouldn't know.
    Damn, this truly shows how macros can either be hurtful or a boost to some players. You can still queue spells if you don't spam the macro, you're supposed to only click it when you get the SS procc. I guess my 20ms gives me a lot more time to react to things(SS proccs etc.) between GCDs

    Anyhow, what about going for mastery after 12000 crit or so? I'm basing my theory on this guy's graphs

    I actually saw that Lappe has stopped going for crit after 14000 and is now stacking mastery. Will the 5.4.8 patch make mastery more valuable?

  10. #1830
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelios View Post
    I actually saw that Lappe has stopped going for crit after 14000 and is now stacking mastery. Will the 5.4.8 patch make mastery more valuable?
    Are you sure Lappe is doing that as a permanent solution and not just testing things out? Those guys are at a stage where any change is okay to test out especially since fights for them are shorter and shorter and their strats are so refined they can potentially move a LOT less than anyone else who is still progressing.

  11. #1831
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelios View Post
    Damn, this truly shows how macros can either be hurtful or a boost to some players. You can still queue spells if you don't spam the macro, you're supposed to only click it when you get the SS procc. I guess my 20ms gives me a lot more time to react to things(SS proccs etc.) between GCDs

    Anyhow, what about going for mastery after 12000 crit or so? I'm basing my theory on this guy's graphs

    I actually saw that Lappe has stopped going for crit after 14000 and is now stacking mastery. Will the 5.4.8 patch make mastery more valuable?
    Just wanna say that graph is a bunch of .. BS I guess. It's useful yes. It's accurate (the graph/math on SS procs), but the way they chose to use it is just ridiculous. They assume this means crit is worse after 12000 rating, which is hogwash. They don't consider the fact that crit also gives you DoT extension or just, well, double damage.... If these factors were considered when exploring "crit caps (which there is no such thing, or even a soft cap), then that info would be useful to us players. They instead tunnel SS procs... unreal. napkin math at its worst. There's a reason that site has fallen out since cata or wrath? idk the time, but it's certainly not a knowledge-center for balance druids anymore.

  12. #1832
    Hello there, fellow celestial poultry, long time reader here coming for some advice. I have some problems edging out my deeps when it comes to multidotting fights (i.e. Protectors, Norushen, Maybe even Gala), more to the point, I am not entirely sure how many targets should I dot up with my eclipsed dot, while still making sure I dont waste too much SS proccs. I generally go for HotW + Inc (although I am considering going NV for gala because our downtime between waves seems to be sufficient for it to become a DPS gain, from what I gather downtime between waves increases NV value).

    On every fight (except Norushen) I use the solar opener, on Norushen i start pre-lunar and pop CDs on the 1st solar eclipse (roughly when the adds start popping up). I think its also worth mentioning that im one of the last to go under and get cleared of corruption and waiting to get cleared will mean losing an entire CA usage.
    On shamans as another example I open, all guns blazing, dot everything up and start nuking one of the wolves, only refreshing dots on it at the end of CA, then when I enter lunar I reapply moonfire to the shamans and the other wolf.

    On single target fights I generally do very well, scoring 1-4 place in a 25 man grp, but on Multitarget fights I fall behind quite badly (even behind our other moonkin(s)), and we're not talking about a marginal difference here that can be attributed to RNG.

    So if anyone could weigh in and give me some tips I would be very grateful. My char is Furrygonne at Stormscale(EU) (no perm to post links yet), don't have any logs to show unfortunately. Will provide more info if needed and perhaps after tonight I'll provide a log as well.

    Thank you in advance!

    Quick EDIT: I have both Juggernaut's Power Core HC and Kardris' Scepter HC, but am using Gaze of Arrogance HC WF, I Sim higher with the latter, but want to get an educated human guess whether or not the former could be a better combo.
    Last edited by Dimolition; 2014-05-16 at 06:23 AM.

  13. #1833

    Lagging DPS on Spoils, rate me!

    Fellow moonkins,

    I need help with Heroic Spoils. I use the Solar Opener and was told I have that nailed. Here are the issues I'm having:

    - My burst is right on the money, but my dps starts to lag towards the middle and end
    - I'm not targeting quick enough. I tab target now but believe a macro for Unstable Spark will help, then a targetlasttarget
    - I'm doing waaaay too many empowered moon/sunfires on mobs that are going to die well before my spell ends
    - I'm popping Treants when trinkets are up (mostly, need to work on that), but I'm doing them on mobs that die too fast
    - Do the Treants attack something else once their mob dies, I really hate to ask that but I'm new to FoN.

    I'm lucky in that I have a lead Boomkin who is helping me figure out my problems and I really want to do better. From my logs and gear, can anyone make suggestions on how to keep my dps up at a stable pace through the fight (i.e: am I on the right track with what I've figured out so far?)

    I cannot post URL's quite yet, but my profile is Adiastas on Baelgun and the logs can be found on Baelgun/Alliance/Sacred for last night.

    Thanks!
    Adi

  14. #1834
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Garvin View Post
    Fellow moonkins,

    I need help with Heroic Spoils. I use the Solar Opener and was told I have that nailed. Here are the issues I'm having:

    - My burst is right on the money, but my dps starts to lag towards the middle and end
    - I'm not targeting quick enough. I tab target now but believe a macro for Unstable Spark will help, then a targetlasttarget
    - I'm doing waaaay too many empowered moon/sunfires on mobs that are going to die well before my spell ends
    - I'm popping Treants when trinkets are up (mostly, need to work on that), but I'm doing them on mobs that die too fast
    - Do the Treants attack something else once their mob dies, I really hate to ask that but I'm new to FoN.

    I'm lucky in that I have a lead Boomkin who is helping me figure out my problems and I really want to do better. From my logs and gear, can anyone make suggestions on how to keep my dps up at a stable pace through the fight (i.e: am I on the right track with what I've figured out so far?)

    I cannot post URL's quite yet, but my profile is Adiastas on Baelgun and the logs can be found on Baelgun/Alliance/Sacred for last night.

    Thanks!
    Adi
    Off the bat, your problems are centered around the fact that you use FoN for Spoils.

    Don't waste globals dotting stuff like the small sparks or if you do then use only eclipsed dot. Same goes for the "boss" statues. On 10man you might wanna dot them up but on 25man it's not really necessary.

  15. #1835
    Yeah, I brought to my lead that most folks run Inc for Spoils but he was right to say he's doing more dps with FoN than I am with marginally better gear (he's on the logs as well).

  16. #1836
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Garvin View Post
    Yeah, I brought to my lead that most folks run Inc for Spoils but he was right to say he's doing more dps with FoN than I am with marginally better gear (he's on the logs as well).
    If you like that talent choice then it's cool.

    From what I see in the logs (I have only average knowledge in them) Volardon has 540 eclipse energy gained while you have a staggering 200 energy only.

    You also camp eclipses for too long and it takes you too long to switch between them. This results in very low NG uptime (yours 55% vs. 77.6% his) which circles around making you stay too long in and out of eclipses.

    Also your Moonfire damage is disproportional to that of your Sunfire, your Starsurge damage somewhat simmilar but you only have half his Starfire damage.

    I suggest you have a read around advanced Moonkin gameplay to help you improve your damage.

    Also Solar opener is pointless if you are not using CA immediately. Better start pre-Lunar for the Pandaren boxes and be in solar to pop CA on the boss box. Or open both Pandaren on pull and pop CA using the Solar opener.

  17. #1837
    If it helps, here is the opener I've been using:

    25 before 0 in Solar > Starfall > Starsurge > CA Macro (pops CA/Lifeblood/Moonfire/Mushrooms if I can place em) > Treant x3 > Wrath > SS on proc > Starfall on cd > empowered MF > Starfall in Lunar > etc..

    And thank you for such a prompt response! Adi

  18. #1838
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Garvin View Post
    If it helps, here is the opener I've been using:

    25 before 0 in Solar > Starfall > Starsurge > CA Macro (pops CA/Lifeblood/Moonfire/Mushrooms if I can place em) > Treant x3 > Wrath > SS on proc > Starfall on cd > empowered MF > Starfall in Lunar > etc..

    And thank you for such a prompt response! Adi
    I only looked at the longest attempt (08:46min) and it shows that you used CA almost a minute in (I guess at the boss box) which makes a Solar opener pointless.

    It's also pointless to start pre-Solar in the fight and waste an uneclipsed Starsurge.

    A big mistake I see there is the use of Wrath during CA.

  19. #1839
    On all attempts, I prepot at -2, starfall at -1, jump down, target the first mob and hit SS to start the CA (if that clarifies), not quite sure why it would show me starting the opener a min in, odd.

  20. #1840
    On spoil i'm using this opener :

    - 25 ernergy pre lunar.
    - Jump down.
    - starfall while the 2 panda box a being opened.
    - wrath to reach lunar then normal cycle while saving the extra starfall for the boss and doting both panda.

    - Usualy i just reach solar in the time we need to kill them and i'm doing a solar opener on the mini boss.
    Boulé, healing druid, EU-Arak-arahm
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyubey
    So if you ever feel like dying for the sake of the universe, please call me anytime.

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