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  1. #1741
    Yea I did a test and for sure. I think I spend to much time using a gcd to get my sunfire and moonfire out. I use Ifilger so it tracks it for me and ForteX to track dots. Gonna try Affdots for any strength over 180 i believe to reapply even with NG and Eclipse.

    MAGE ||| MONK

  2. #1742
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomy View Post
    Gonna try Affdots for any strength over 180 i believe to reapply even with NG and Eclipse.
    Affdots is not worth paying any attention to in terms of refreshing DoTs.

  3. #1743
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Affdots is not worth paying any attention to in terms of refreshing DoTs.
    Thxs for that. Like I said i'm trying new things to try to mid max. Cause at 550 im only pulling bout 170k and I know I can get at least 200k I don't know y though.

    No Logs but, have armory if you wanna look.
    Armory ---->http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...momma/advanced

    actually i might have logs after a while running norm pug group. so lets hope.
    Last edited by Boomy; 2014-04-07 at 03:05 AM.

    MAGE ||| MONK

  4. #1744
    Pit Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Affdots is not worth paying any attention to in terms of refreshing DoTs.
    Out of curiosity, why not?

  5. #1745
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    Out of curiosity, why not?
    Because our DoTs are not powerful enough to spend a GCD on clipping for extra power. We also don't have Pandemic.

    Personally I use Affdots Boomkin but I only pay attention to it on pull (to see if my DoTs were effected by procs or if the procs came 0.1 seconds too late) or when I am about to be spamming a DoT for movement, I check Affdots to see which DoT is going to be better to spam, but even then due to Eclipse states it isn't always as simple as choosing the stronger one.

    TL;DR Affdots Boomkin is fine IF you know what you're actually doing with it.

  6. #1746
    You should monitor your procs (= affdots) when you're trying to get max dps out. Because the meta gem and KTT are shorter than your dot length, you will have situations where you apply dots and either of those proc soon after. When the proc is about to end you will still have about 5 seconds on your weak dots left and should refresh them at that point. Wasting 2 ticks for those more powerful dots is usually worth it.

  7. #1747
    Pit Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Because our DoTs are not powerful enough to spend a GCD on clipping for extra power. We also don't have Pandemic.

    Personally I use Affdots Boomkin but I only pay attention to it on pull (to see if my DoTs were effected by procs or if the procs came 0.1 seconds too late) or when I am about to be spamming a DoT for movement, I check Affdots to see which DoT is going to be better to spam, but even then due to Eclipse states it isn't always as simple as choosing the stronger one.

    TL;DR Affdots Boomkin is fine IF you know what you're actually doing with it.
    Aye, that I can agree with I just didn't feel it's correct to say it isn't worth to completly pay attention to it. Our DoT application isn't exactly the same as other classes and needs to align with Eclipse cycles but as you noticed yourself there are times Affdots can aid a bit with some nuances. I use it instead of constantly watching all proc timers. When I see green numbers there and I know I will be refreshing DoTs soon anyway I check up the timers and make a decission if I should refresh now (as some buff is falling off soonish) or I can wait more till the end of the DoT or just before leaving Eclipse with short DoT timer (with little chance of making it into the next Eclipse).

  8. #1748
    All you should care about is trying to get a refresh in sometime during a meta gem proc(just once at the last possible second on the proc or dot falling off). Int procs are overvalued by a lot of people (outside the pull where they are all stacked and you end up with like 70-80%crit + tons of haste too. Meta gem is going to do the most for your ss procs. affdots doesn't tell you proc's durations and doesn't help you understand what proc is going to help the most. Additionally the addon encourages refreshing as soon as the number on it gets 'big' or 'green' which is poor gameplay.

    Meta gem is also when you should try to use your second set of three minutes a lot of times - this depends on the encounter and stuff too I understand, but it's not neccisarily going to be better to wait for an immerseus trinket proc if meta isn't up during that time.

  9. #1749
    Pit Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    All you should care about is trying to get a refresh in sometime during a meta gem proc(just once at the last possible second on the proc or dot falling off). Int procs are overvalued by a lot of people (outside the pull where they are all stacked and you end up with like 70-80%crit + tons of haste too. Meta gem is going to do the most for your ss procs. affdots doesn't tell you proc's durations and doesn't help you understand what proc is going to help the most. Additionally the addon encourages refreshing as soon as the number on it gets 'big' or 'green' which is poor gameplay.

    Meta gem is also when you should try to use your second set of three minutes a lot of times - this depends on the encounter and stuff too I understand, but it's not neccisarily going to be better to wait for an immerseus trinket proc if meta isn't up during that time.
    Affdots it's just a tool that gives some info. It's up to the player to use that info. It's obviously not wise to refresh DoTs just as Affdots turns green :P But info from Affdots speeds up some of the decission process.

  10. #1750
    The Patient Grum88's Avatar
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    What do you guys say about trinkets (your all very good with this behind the scenes math stuff). Obviously I have the Purified bindings and I have the toxic totem and the black blood I can't decide which to use. With black blood I can get both dots up at 10 stacks about 90% of the time Eclipse allowing...and I guess that's maybe the only great thing about using that trinket but I've always thought as balance with the power bar it maybe a little too clunky to really maximise using it.
    Link to my armoury: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/May/advanced
    I'm sure everything is in order but if any of you expert moonkins have any feedback, please let me hear it ^^

  11. #1751
    Quote Originally Posted by Grum88 View Post
    What do you guys say about trinkets (your all very good with this behind the scenes math stuff). Obviously I have the Purified bindings and I have the toxic totem and the black blood I can't decide which to use. With black blood I can get both dots up at 10 stacks about 90% of the time Eclipse allowing...and I guess that's maybe the only great thing about using that trinket but I've always thought as balance with the power bar it maybe a little too clunky to really maximise using it.
    Link to my armoury: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/May/advanced
    I'm sure everything is in order but if any of you expert moonkins have any feedback, please let me hear it ^^
    Right now I would use totem/purified bindings is quite a bit better than black blood. Moonkin dots are somewhat insignificant compared to the nukes, to the point where snapshotting a 10stack of black blood, even with CA doesn't really do all that much and it in a sense forces you to clip more than you would have to with other trinkets and lower NG uptime a little.

    If someone could like the trinket spreadsheet Slippykins made a while ago at the beginning of the tier that would be great too. I can't find it.

  12. #1752
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    Right now I would use totem/purified bindings is quite a bit better than black blood. Moonkin dots are somewhat insignificant compared to the nukes, to the point where snapshotting a 10stack of black blood, even with CA doesn't really do all that much and it in a sense forces you to clip more than you would have to with other trinkets and lower NG uptime a little.

    If someone could like the trinket spreadsheet Slippykins made a while ago at the beginning of the tier that would be great too. I can't find it.
    You mean this? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post22152247

    I think the first post also has a link to the spreadsheet as well.

  13. #1753
    The Patient Grum88's Avatar
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    Alright thanks I am always switching between them and never sure which to use but from now on I think ill stick to PB+HTT.

  14. #1754
    I'd like to get some things clarified.

    Here's my wow heroes: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Mug'thol/dreyen/

    While i believe I do fairly well, i'd really like to get more ranks above 100. Sad truth is, theres a lot of things i'm unsure about for boomkin dps, as i still have the old rules in my head from T14...

    What are all the optimal situations to refresh dots? With weakauras i track my two trinkets and my legendary meta. I currently refresh my dots at the beginning of an eclipse, when significant procs happens (At least 2 procs out of my trinkets + meta), and at the end of my eclipse if less than 9seconds are remaining on my dot (Quite unsure that is wise..). I'm asking because I've played with another druid who used to wreck me in single target pretty hard, but talking about rotation with him seemed to lead nowhere... all i know is that he always had more starfire casts than me even if im not wasting time between my movements or casts.

    I'd love to see a hint on multidotting too, im not too sure how to approach fallen protectors and galakras either. I just start with my two dots, then i spread my eclipsed dot everywhere while using starsurge on cooldown. I guess im doing that right considering i got rank 39 on galakras and 80 on fallen protectors on fairly longish fights.

    Using starsurge in general... when is it worth to cancel your spell to cast starsurge? Right now i only ever cancel starfires when the cast is too slow and im at the beginning of my cast.

    If you guys any tips for specific fights where i rank less than top 100.. feel free to help, especially sha of pride, immerseus, malkorok (ugh my worst fight)

  15. #1755
    Thanks for the guide mate, awesome read.

  16. #1756
    Not too surpsied nobody bother replying to my post.. i feel like guides are incomplete, and most players would rather keep their theorycraft to themselves. For exemple, when most people asking when to cancel casts to use starsurge usually gets obscure responses from good players like "If you have to ask youre not good enough" or "It depends" with no other explanation... kinda disappointing of the boomkin community.

    Guess I'll keep making my own finds, and my own theorycraft.

  17. #1757
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    I'd like to get some things clarified.

    Here's my wow heroes: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Mug'thol/dreyen/

    While i believe I do fairly well, i'd really like to get more ranks above 100. Sad truth is, theres a lot of things i'm unsure about for boomkin dps, as i still have the old rules in my head from T14...

    What are all the optimal situations to refresh dots? With weakauras i track my two trinkets and my legendary meta. I currently refresh my dots at the beginning of an eclipse, when significant procs happens (At least 2 procs out of my trinkets + meta), and at the end of my eclipse if less than 9seconds are remaining on my dot (Quite unsure that is wise..). I'm asking because I've played with another druid who used to wreck me in single target pretty hard, but talking about rotation with him seemed to lead nowhere... all i know is that he always had more starfire casts than me even if im not wasting time between my movements or casts.

    I'd love to see a hint on multidotting too, im not too sure how to approach fallen protectors and galakras either. I just start with my two dots, then i spread my eclipsed dot everywhere while using starsurge on cooldown. I guess im doing that right considering i got rank 39 on galakras and 80 on fallen protectors on fairly longish fights.

    Using starsurge in general... when is it worth to cancel your spell to cast starsurge? Right now i only ever cancel starfires when the cast is too slow and im at the beginning of my cast.

    If you guys any tips for specific fights where i rank less than top 100.. feel free to help, especially sha of pride, immerseus, malkorok (ugh my worst fight)
    At your ilvl you shouldn't have to DoT twice. In fact I would consider it unwise to do so. Refresh as close to previous DoTs falling, while still in Eclipse preferably with Meta up. The rest of the buffs are a welcome bonus. You are probably losing due to wasting 2 extra globals each eclipse to redot, hense why he has more hard casts.

    Glurp wrote a very comprehensive list of considerations somewhere in another thread where the "cancel casts for SS" question was asked. Most of them are nitpicking but about half of them are major judgement processes for the issue.

  18. #1758
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Not too surpsied nobody bother replying to my post.. i feel like guides are incomplete, and most players would rather keep their theorycraft to themselves. For exemple, when most people asking when to cancel casts to use starsurge usually gets obscure responses from good players like "If you have to ask youre not good enough" or "It depends" with no other explanation... kinda disappointing of the boomkin community.

    Guess I'll keep making my own finds, and my own theorycraft.
    A lot of stuff isn't simmed properly either. The default profile for simcraft has been hugely inaccurate since t13 and I haven't heard of or seen anyone change the priorities to reflect high level balance druid place. Wrathcalcs has been behind the entire xpac and while its an okay(at best) tool to compare gear pieces you won't be able to use that to judge a variance in different playstyles.

    I understand it's frustrating that balance doesn't have the extensive and accurate theorycrafting of other specs, but it has a few tools to work with that can help and simply talking to another boomkin in-game or elsewhere about these kind of things, especially really situational questions, will help you improve immensely, often more than math would help.

    The guide here specifically is pretty general and directed at the newest players and that's probably why it hasn't helped you much Dreyen

  19. #1759
    Field Marshal Bizley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Not too surpsied nobody bother [...]
    This topic is 80+ pages now and I'm pretty sure the questions you have got are already answered. I read this topic every day to be up-to-date with moonkins and I guess most of the people here do the same - so if you see the same questions again and again your "willing to help" level is lower and you tend to be grumpy. So please don't sulk and read more than a first and last page.

  20. #1760
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Not too surpsied nobody bother replying to my post.. i feel like guides are incomplete, and most players would rather keep their theorycraft to themselves. For exemple, when most people asking when to cancel casts to use starsurge usually gets obscure responses from good players like "If you have to ask youre not good enough" or "It depends" with no other explanation... kinda disappointing of the boomkin community.

    Guess I'll keep making my own finds, and my own theorycraft.
    Because the questions you asked are asked and answered multiple times on almost every page in this thead and the fix my dps thread.

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