1. #1

    How much damage does a 655 weapon do over a 630 one for dps DKs?

    Is the damage difference significant enough to gimp someone's dps with someone who has enough gear to raise their ilvl to 650, but still has a 630 weapon? How much of a difference did you guys see when you finally got that two hander fro kor'agh?

  2. #2
    simulationcraft.org


  3. #3
    I don't really trust those sims. Didn't one of them have a bug that double dipped soul reaper?

  4. #4
    Where do you think most of us take the information you asking for from?


  5. #5
    Personal experience, like the difference people notice after an upgrade in terms of their dps.

  6. #6
    Someone posted some stat weights including weapon dps, and wep dps was inbetween strength and multi in terms of priority, so if a 645 wep is roughly 40 weapon dps above a 630, that is basically an additional 35 strength

  7. #7
    I'm still using my socketed Crit+Multistrike 645 axe over the 655 Ko'ragh-hammer (thanks, Followers) as the additional MS seems to slightly outweigh the hammer's Str and DPS advantage, but I can't see any situation where a 630 would be remotely as good as a 655, even if the higher weapon had the worst secondaries.

    Maybe next tier it will be different, but right now it should be no problem at all to get at least a 640 weapon. There are so many ways. CMs, Raids, LFR, Follower Missions, Crafting.
    So if you are telling me you can't get a weapon above 630, I'm calling bullshit on that.
    Last edited by Galathir; 2014-12-18 at 02:05 PM.

  8. #8
    Was also wondering this since I cant seem to find a single pug who doesn't have a few idiots come Ko'ragh. Can one shot every boss then as soon as the first 2hander can drop every party falls to pieces. Then any decent group want an achievement for doing it :/

    Seems like every other class has a 655 weapon yet I can't seem to get one. Only option I seem to have just now is to switch to DW during HC and get 2x Butchers Cleaver.

    On a side note how close to the sim damage are you supposed to do? On HC Butcher I'm hitting 21k but my Patchwerk sim is hitting 23k. Recon that's close enough or it needs vastly improved?
    Last edited by Kakazam; 2014-12-18 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #9
    I don't think there's a big problem with being a bit under simdps. Especially Butcher might require you to spend GCDs or even runes for survival, you are not always positioned perfectly and he runs out of reach occasionally. Also your raid might not have all buffs or debuffs up at all times.

    To me simdps is what you should try to strive for but never worry too much about not reaching.
    Last edited by Galathir; 2014-12-18 at 06:15 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by snakeclone View Post
    I don't really trust those sims. Didn't one of them have a bug that double dipped soul reaper?
    But complete guesswork from human sources you have no issues with?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Galathir View Post
    I'm still using my socketed Crit+Multistrike 645 axe over the 655 Ko'ragh-hammer (thanks, Followers) as the additional MS seems to slightly outweigh the hammer's Str and DPS advantage, but I can't see any situation where a 630 would be remotely as good as a 655, even if the higher weapon had the worst secondaries.
    I own the same axe on my frost dk, but why isn't Ko'ragh's mace an upgrade? You get more strength, more weapon dps and more haste to replace the crit. For my sims, haste is no.1 stat and it's aprox. 1.25x better then crit. Due to socket and multi difference you lose about 50(35 depends on socket) + 6. You make back that difference from the haste being way better then crit.

    So imo, the haste on the weapon negates the socket and multi difference, leaving the strength + weapon dps upgrade to be the real upgrade.

    TL;DR: For frost 2h, Ko'ragh's mace is better.

    ps: My BiS except mythic weapon list:

    Ko'ragh Mace (HC) (=)> Crafted BoE 2h Axe 3/3 with multi/haste > Ko'ragh Mace (Normal) > Follower 645 axe.
    I'm thinking in getting the axe crafted since my guild is "unlucky" with Ko'ragh drops so far. I think it might be on pair with the HC mage, or almost on pair, since I'm orc.
    Last edited by naturestorm; Yesterday at 09:15 AM.

  12. #12
    Just picked that mace up tonight on Heroic can't wait to test it out next week. I went from a 630 to a 670 I'm pretty excited to see my dps jump I was usually around 17-20k
    Last edited by Kalshin; Yesterday at 09:16 AM.
    Khalshen - Frost Dk Sargeras

  13. #13
    It depends if you are UH or frost 2h.

    it gives you more as 2h frost due to it not only effecting obliterate by a large amount but also our white hits with op might of the frozen wastes

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm View Post
    I own the same axe on my frost dk, but why isn't Ko'ragh's mace an upgrade? You get more strength, more weapon dps and more haste to replace the crit. For my sims, haste is no.1 stat and it's aprox. 1.25x better then crit. Due to socket and multi difference you lose about 50(35 depends on socket) + 6. You make back that difference from the haste being way better then crit.

    So imo, the haste on the weapon negates the socket and multi difference, leaving the strength + weapon dps upgrade to be the real upgrade.

    TL;DR: For frost 2h, Ko'ragh's mace is better.

    ps: My BiS except mythic weapon list:



    I'm thinking in getting the axe crafted since my guild is "unlucky" with Ko'ragh drops so far. I think it might be on pair with the HC mage, or almost on pair, since I'm orc.
    Both weapon from last boss and ko ragh, are equal in dps worth. reason is the low value stat aka crit on frost2h against a lower value stat with another lower value compensates it so they are very equal in stat worth of dps increase many overloook this and see the sword as a straight downgrade to the mace wich is wrong.

  14. #14
    Ko'ragh mace has MS/haste the best stats for frost 2h, while Imperators sword has Mastery/Vers with mastery being ST one of the worst stats and Vers being similar/ worse to haste depending on situation and talent choice. So for frost 2h Ko'ragh is the clear winner. Wdps still matters more, so even a slightly higher ilvl version like warforged wins the deal anyway, but they are not equal.

    They are very similar for unholy though. For pure ST Ko'ragh is likely to be better but that closes in the more targets you get as mastery gets stronger on multitarget and haste weaker. As cleaving is pretty common I would consider them both equivalent for unholy.
    Still even for unholy a higher ilvl weapon regardless of itemization (aside something like 1.5 haste which can happen on that garrison stuff) should be better than a relatively well itemized weapon or a socket, wdps is still a lot more worth than sec stats itself and the difference left open by trading better into worse stats is not high enough to use the old weapon, especially since you also gain mainstat and a few extra secondary stats.
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Azshara/raikh/

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Raikh/advanced

    Humans love to hate. They neither have to think nor to understand to hate something or someone and still they find a cause and solution for their problems.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Raikh View Post
    Ko'ragh mace has MS/haste the best stats for frost 2h, while Imperators sword has Mastery/Vers with mastery being ST one of the worst stats and Vers being similar/ worse to haste depending on situation and talent choice. So for frost 2h Ko'ragh is the clear winner. Wdps still matters more, so even a slightly higher ilvl version like warforged wins the deal anyway, but they are not equal.

    They are very similar for unholy though. For pure ST Ko'ragh is likely to be better but that closes in the more targets you get as mastery gets stronger on multitarget and haste weaker. As cleaving is pretty common I would consider them both equivalent for unholy.
    Still even for unholy a higher ilvl weapon regardless of itemization (aside something like 1.5 haste which can happen on that garrison stuff) should be better than a relatively well itemized weapon or a socket, wdps is still a lot more worth than sec stats itself and the difference left open by trading better into worse stats is not high enough to use the old weapon, especially since you also gain mainstat and a few extra secondary stats.
    are you telling me that haste is better than versitility? i beg you to do some mathimatical research before you come up with that idea frost 2h versitility beats haste plentysome, its good to get haste dont get me wrong but vers beats it in terms of scaling with might of frozen wastes.

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