Why is the Retribution 2p set something that should already be applied to judgement?

[Requital]

It's like back in ToGC Paladin T9 Retribution 2P Bonus (Righteous Vengeance) Your Righteous Vengeance talent now has a chance for its damage to be critical strikes. That was a prime example of what should have been baseline. It was later made baseline but it should have been baseline long before then.

2PC T9 was also detrimental to the DPS of a Ret and most used 2pc t9/t10 for a very long time as it made that big of a difference. This is one of those things where we will hang on to T13 as long as we can.

[Talen]

It's like back in ToGC Paladin T9 Retribution 2P Bonus (Righteous Vengeance) Your Righteous Vengeance talent now has a chance for its damage to be critical strikes. That was a prime example of what should have been baseline. It was later made baseline but it should have been baseline long before then.

2PC T9 was also detrimental to the DPS of a Ret and most used 2pc t9/t10 for a very long time as it made that big of a difference. This is one of those things where we will hang on to T13 as long as we can.

I doubt that.

My impression is that the numbers of Rets have fallen off sharply over the past few months. That may be due to the servers I play on, and it may be wrong, but most Rets don't seem to have survived the transition from LK.

At least, not yet - theres still time for the S11 and t13 armors to bring them back

As it is....my own feeling is that Blizzard really needs to grap this nettle, sit down and simply get the class system right. HP was a start, but being as poorly implemented as it is, it almost feels like a chore to play rather than fun. This bonus feels like an experiment to see how well a faster HP generation rate will work and, if so, hopefully, it'll be expanded upon.

Hopefully, Blizzard won't see it as doing the job all by itself. HP is in greater need of more than simply an extra HP every so often.

EJL

[L0ngfep]

Take a look at shadow 2 AND 4 piece. Both of them are quality of gameplay increases that should have already been implemented. With that said, the 4pc is a little excessive with 3 orbs per hit from a fiend but you get the point of orbs being too RNG.

[Bigcountry11782]

The explanation is simple

They rushed a half assed clunky overly RNG dependent P.O.S through the end of beta without testing it & ignoring the feedback they got for 2 1/2 major patches & are now looking for band aid ways to improve the spec without doing much work or admitting they screwed up.

agreed very well put

[Siri]

It's like back in ToGC Paladin T9 Retribution 2P Bonus (Righteous Vengeance) Your Righteous Vengeance talent now has a chance for its damage to be critical strikes. That was a prime example of what should have been baseline. It was later made baseline but it should have been baseline long before then.

All such bonuses became baseline though. Critting Rupture, Serpent Sting, Rake and probably more of them I can't remember on top of my head.

[terrahero]

I doubt that.

My impression is that the numbers of Rets have fallen off sharply over the past few months. That may be due to the servers I play on, and it may be wrong, but most Rets don't seem to have survived the transition from LK.

At least, not yet - theres still time for the S11 and t13 armors to bring them back

As it is....my own feeling is that Blizzard really needs to grap this nettle, sit down and simply get the class system right. HP was a start, but being as poorly implemented as it is, it almost feels like a chore to play rather than fun. This bonus feels like an experiment to see how well a faster HP generation rate will work and, if so, hopefully, it'll be expanded upon.

Hopefully, Blizzard won't see it as doing the job all by itself. HP is in greater need of more than simply an extra HP every so often.

EJL

Agreed. Judgement generating HP at this point is however quite a big deal already, no where near the fix Ret needs. Or paladins, in general. But it would already be a great improvement, not just a QoL improvement but actually one to the core of the class mechanics. But its only a simple bandaid fix, wich is why i wouldnt be surprised if it pretty much ended there. Along with a few dps buffs.

Blizzard knew the problems around the time Cata went into its beta stage. Its been more then a year at this point, and i think its obvious they wont do it in 4.3. They always delayed overhauls untill another expansion. And they're adding so much extra stuff in 4.3 i doubt they'll even take the time needed to nail it.

So my prediction, bandaid fix to mechanics mostly through tier bonus. And a dps buff, likely Judgement amped up a bit. End of Ret changes. That would fit right in with the current track record. Around the last major patch of an expansion they throw in a bunch of bandaid fixes. They did this in vanilla, they did this in TBC, they did this in WotLK and likely they'll do it in Cata aswell.
Dont believe me? Go look up the old patchnotes, i think there are a few websites that kept track of all of those, shouldnt be hard to google. So far blizzard follows a certain patern quite strictly. Those that actually played TBC or rather even before that, would recognize it anywhere. Hence the sceptisism, as so far everything feels like one hell of a dejá vu to me.

[Judge Malthred]

If you want to talk to Blizz reps your are on the wrong site.

I agree it should be baseline though.

[Reith]

"But I play a paladin because I want to be a paladin" is not any more valid than "I play enhancement because I want to be melee dps".

It's time to prove you wrong:

1. You have to level the character.
2. As a result of not being the same character, your dungeons/raids won't go as smoothly to get gear because you can't get off-spec pieces while having the good gear, then change your spec - and considering that Enhancement and Elemental are both DPS specializations, the role does not change (much).
3. You do not have the same achievements.
4. You do not have the same accessibility (can't do heroic raids off the bat).
5. You have to learn all the ins and outs of the end-game-capabilities of your character.

So, in short: you're ignorant and short-sighted.

[Talen]

Wrong, you don't always have the option to respec because of raid compositions. You may very well be locked into one of those specs so they don't have any more of a choice than you do.

I have a feeling that argument sounded real good when you were writing it. However, outside 10 mans, raid composition simply isn't that importnat. A DPS replaced by a DPS won't go astray.

So...no. Respeccing to another DPS spec within your own class is soemthign thats really doable for every DPS spec except Paladins and Priest, bith of which have a single DPS spec. On could argue that the alternate DPS spec is less viable for some reason, but as a DPS spec, the other classes have a spare.

Paladins don't have that choice at all. Each of their trees represents a single role. You cannot fob off Rets saying they can do Shockadin.

I rerolled from Healing priest in t11 to Feral Tank in t12 without a hitch and I rerolled from Hunter to Priest in the middle of t10 without a hitch. Rerolling is really not a lot of work at all especially not when done at the end of a tier.

How long does it take you to level a new character from L1 -L85? How long does it take you to gear him up to the same level as your main? To work your way through the dailies? Are you prepatred to give up your achievements, mounts and other soulbound gear?

Its good for you that you feel able to do so and can do so in a reasonable amount of time.

Not everyone has the desire to switch to another class, not everyone has the time and not every raid group is willing to wait while he does so.

"But I play a paladin because I want to be a paladin" is not any more valid than "I play enhancement because I want to be melee dps".

If I wnat to play a Paladin, I have a choice of 3 specs.
If I wnat to play a Paladin as DPS...I have a choice of 1 spec.
If I want to play melee DPS, I have a choice of 10 or so different specs, with a choice of different playstyles, feels, looks and mechanics.

Also, regardless of what you think of ret's current state they have not been at the bottom since 3.3.5. And even assuming they had that doesn't make you entitled to a mechanics change when just a numbers pass would be enough.

The problem is with the class mechanics. Changing the numbers won't change a thing thats wrong.

EJL