isit worth sacrificing 30% haste tick for int?

[Elysia]

Lightning Capacitator normal better already or only the heroic version ? for affli

Normal is better already.

[gakpad]

So much misinformation in this thread. No, it's not worth bending yourself backwards for 30% haste as affliction. The only thing you'll gain by having that extra UA tick, is increased DPET, which basically just means you'll have to cast UA ~2 times less than without 30% haste. This means you can use the gained time to cast more fillers which result in being able to cast ~2 more shadowbolts in a 5 minutes patchwerk-style fight. WOW!

Show me where I said it's worth bending over backwards for. I said if you're already within a small margin of reaching it, getting 15+ extra UA ticks and reforging into a little bit of haste instead of hit is in fact worth it. I never said to just drop everything and gem straight haste and reforge into all haste to get the extra tick. I've seen it myself simming my character with ~2450 haste that haste was weighted even higher than int at that point. And why in god's name would haste make me recast UA two times less? It has no bearing on the duration of the spell, it just grants you more ticks within the duration of the spell. Don't quote me and call my entire post misinformation when you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about.

And the fact that immolate is auto-refreshed as Demo has no bearing on haste either, since it STILL provides the same amount of extra ticks in a given timeframe. Refreshing it has zero to do with that, same as corruption still benefits from haste as affliction even though haunt refreshes it. Do you have any sources for this BS you're spewing at all?

[nerdzrool]

Show me where I said it's worth bending over backwards for. I said if you're already within a small margin of reaching it, getting 15+ extra UA ticks and reforging into a little bit of haste instead of hit is in fact worth it. I never said to just drop everything and gem straight haste and reforge into all haste to get the extra tick. I've seen it myself simming my character with ~2450 haste that haste was weighted even higher than int at that point. And why in god's name would haste make me recast UA two times less? It has no bearing on the duration of the spell, it just grants you more ticks within the duration of the spell. Don't quote me and call my entire post misinformation when you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about.

And the fact that immolate is auto-refreshed as Demo has no bearing on haste either, since it STILL provides the same amount of extra ticks in a given timeframe. Refreshing it has zero to do with that, same as corruption still benefits from haste as affliction even though haunt refreshes it. Do you have any sources for this BS you're spewing at all?

Because it DOES have a bearing on the duration of the spell. The more haste you have, the shorter the spell lasts because the last tick occurs (insert your haste %) sooner. When you hit a haste threshold, the spell gains an extra tick and returns to its full duration. It doesn't make a HUGE difference, but if you're within striking distance it is worth it to gain the ~200 dps. It's important to note that it's not worth bending over backwards for (i.e. sacrificing a large amount of int), but it is nice. Sim it for yourself and see.

Here's a basic example. If dot A lasts 100 seconds and ticks once every 10 seconds at 0% haste, then at 5% haste it would last ~95 seconds. At ~10% haste, it would gain an extra tick, and last 100 seconds again. If you have ~9% haste it would still have 10 ticks and last 91s, so you gain more dps than usualy by getting that extra 1% since it also saves you ~10 seconds of filler.

*I used ~'s because it would be a little more than 10% haste to hit the extra tick (like 100% haste wouldn't give you 10 extra ticks, it would only give 5), but I was too lazy to do the actual math.

EDIT: Obligatory note about simming it yourself.

[gakpad]

Nope, haste only affects tick frequency and has no bearing on duration.

[nerdzrool]

Nope, haste only affects tick frequency and has no bearing on duration.

If this were the case then at 30% haste you would have to refresh your dots 30% more often.

[gakpad]

No. Taking a hypothetical spell as example: Spell A ticks 5 times in 15 seconds. You get enough haste to get two extra ticks. It then ticks 7 times in 15 seconds, ticking faster corresponding to your haste. It's pretty simple. This does not imply having to refresh it more often?

[Deleted]

Normal is better already.

congratulations you are wrong
rune of zeth+DMC is BiS for affliction and destruction
chalice+DMC is BiS for demo
rag trinket even on heroic is worse then rune or DMC

[Deleted]

If this were the case then at 30% haste you would have to refresh your dots 30% more often.

If i have understand all this right with haste you get a extra tick in the same time. So if a dot do 10 ticks in 10 sec you instead get 11 ticks in 10 sec. Can be wrong but thats how i understand it.

[gakpad]

congratulations you are wrong
rune of zeth+DMC is BiS for affliction and destruction
chalice+DMC is BiS for demo
rag trinket even on heroic is worse then rune or DMC

Nope, every single credible source including simcraft says normal rag trinket is better than DMC for affliction and destruction.

edit: i realized your information is probably just outdated, the rag trinket recieved a 260% damage buff to its proc and that was enough to bump it ahead for both aff/destro. this was a while ago though.

If i have understand all this right with haste you get a extra tick in the same time. So if a dot do 10 ticks in 10 sec you instead get 11 ticks in 10 sec. Can be wrong but thats how i understand it.

You are correct.

[nerdzrool]

No. Taking a hypothetical example as example: Spell A ticks 5 times in 15 seconds. You get enough haste to get two extra ticks. It then ticks 7 times in 15 seconds, ticking faster corresponding to your haste. It's pretty simple.

This is correct, however you are ignoring what happens between haste thresholds. Tick frequency scales continuously with haste, so if you had enough haste to get 1.5 extra ticks, the spell would tick as quickly as if it had 1.5 extra ticks, but wouldn't fully reach the second extra tick so would last .5 ticks shorter overall.

[Raugnaut]

For haste thresholds, it works something like this in terms of stat priority

If the Dot/HoT lasts shorter then the cooldown of the spell, it is generally worth sacrificing some amount of int to reach the treshhold.
If the Dot/Hot lasts longer then the cooldown, its is not worth sacrificing int, but is worth a slight amount of a secondary stat.

For druids, this is why reaching 2005 haste threshhold is worth sacrificing around 300 int. Since 2005 haste gives Wild Growth an extra tick, and Wild Growth lasts 7 secs compared to the 8 second cooldown, it gives a significant bonus. However, between the first and second Wild Growth haste threshholds, Haste is lower then Mastery and Crit for throughput. For spells that automatically refresh, haste's value is lower then both Crit and Mastery. This is a general rule of thumb. Shadowflame, for instance, will scale far beyond Int at each of the extra-dot tick haste threshhold, but Haste is behind crit whenever you arent near the threshhold.

[gakpad]

That doesn't take the GCD into account either, which also affects DPC, but that's a separate issue. You can't look at it as such a black and white issue. And while I realize now what you meant about the dot durations between haste threshholds that still doesn't affect DPC and you can still time your refreshes so that it's really not even a considerable factor on dps. The threshholds are the points we're looking at, not the intermediate haste points between them.

[Elysia]

congratulations you are wrong

No, I'm not. You are, though. VLPC normal has been better than DMC for Affliction since the buff to it weeks ago (September 6th, to be exact).

[Deleted]

Ok lets clear this up. You should sim things for yourself but Rag trinket is BiS normal or hr, now for the second trinket, RoZ or DMCV? And pls someone that knows....but at the end we still need to sim it for ourselfs...

[Blins85]

Therefore, the haste thresholds are (raid buffed):

Extra Ticks % Rating Goblin
1 9.9% 218 90
2 30% 2589 2437
3 49.9% 4951 4776
4 70% 7326 7127

In addition to Unstable Affliction, our other DoTs benefit heavily from gaining extra ticks. The haste thresholds for our other DoTs are below:

Corruption

Extra Ticks % Rating Goblin
1 8.3% 21 0
2 25% 1993 1846
3 41.7% 3970 3804
4 58.4% 5945 5745

Bane of Agony

Extra Ticks % Rating Goblin
1 4.1% 0 0
2 12.5% 518 386
3 20.8% 1499 1358
4 29.7% 2488 2336
5 37.5% 3476 3315
6 45.8% 4462 4291
7 54.1% 5446 5266

I pulled this from Elitist Jerks. I would build my gear around 30% haste.

[Deleted]

People saying that rune and VPLC are bis, I don't agree. I'm fairly certain the necromantic focus and VPLC will give better results.
I mean check any of the top warlocks from the top guilds / logs, you'll see the majority of them are using the Necromantic Focus with the heroic VPLC.

Can you not embarrass yourself please. NF is not bis for any warlock spec and the only reason some top warlocks log out with that trinket on is because they are bis geared and get higher or top on gearscore wowprogress. Noone is playing aff with that trinket, maybe you should actually check sims and logs to see that rune and vplc are in fact bis.

[Deleted]

congratulations you are wrong
rune of zeth+DMC is BiS for affliction and destruction
chalice+DMC is BiS for demo
rag trinket even on heroic is worse then rune or DMC

Congratulations, YOU are wrong.

Good job spouting wrong information like it's fact.

For Affli Rune of Zeth + Rag trinket (even normal) is BiS.

Rune of Zeth because you can line up BoD with the on use effect, and rag trinket because it got buffed to do ~2.5x the damage, on top of the huge static intellect.

Every single credible source states the same, so unless you think you know better then all those, feel free to show some maths to prove it.

[Deleted]

Can you not embarrass yourself please. NF is not bis for any warlock spec and the only reason some top warlocks log out with that trinket on is because they are bis geared and get higher or top on gearscore wowprogress. Noone is playing aff with that trinket, maybe you should actually check sims and logs to see that rune and vplc are in fact bis.

Maybe you should actually test things out rather than just seeing what simcraft says then swearing by it. -_-
Rank 1 warlock on Ragnaros heroic, Rank 1 warlock on Majordomo Staghelm heroic and Rank 1 warlock on Baleroc heroic. As you can see, all 3 logs there have the buff Soul Fragment, Maybe you should check logs before you embarrass yourself.

[DesireKT]

Maybe you should actually test things out rather than just seeing what simcraft says then swearing by it. -_-
Rank 1 warlock on Ragnaros heroic, Rank 1 warlock on Majordomo Staghelm heroic and Rank 1 warlock on Baleroc heroic. As you can see, all 3 logs there have the buff Soul Fragment, Maybe you should check logs before you embarrass yourself.

Wait wait wait... so your amazing source is from 1 warlock that's fed tricks and PI and taking that as the end all be all for bis... Clearly YOU should look at some logs.

[Deleted]

Wait wait wait... so your amazing source is from 1 warlock that's fed tricks and PI and taking that as the end all be all for bis... Clearly YOU should look at some logs.

I'd rather not sift through every single log on a Sunday afternoon, but please, be my guest. I just took rank 1 from the only stand still nuke fight (Baleroc) the only fight worth a damn in the instance (Ragnaros) and 1 that's movement and has some cleave, but not just AOE (Staghelm).. It's just a coincidence that they are all Acrylic from Vodka.
So what if he is getting tricks and PI's, any top ranking caster will be getting them, that's what getting good ranks has been reverted to.