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  1. #1

    4.3 Lava Lash is nerfed?

    I just did some math and looks like the changes are actually nerfing LL's damage on single target.

    patch 4.2
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 200%
    15/30% increased base damage from talent 30%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 20% for each searing totem stack 100%
    TOTAL 390% off hand damage

    patch 4.3
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 260%
    no increased base damage from talent 0%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 10% for each searing totem stack 50%
    TOTAL 370% off hand damage

    So it is a flat 20% nerf?

  2. #2
    It's gonna end up doing more damage, factoring in the new mental quickness and flametongue.
    Oh and it's mostly a PvP buff, where most people will kill searing totem before you can get stacks up. Now Lava Lash will do actual damage in PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    'Hardcore' raiders remind me of my two-year-old. "Yes, I put it down and I'm not playing with it anymore, but YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT MINE MINE MINE MINE!"

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpy View Post
    I just did some math and looks like the changes are actually nerfing LL's damage on single target.

    patch 4.2
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 200%
    15/30% increased base damage from talent 30%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 20% for each searing totem stack 100%
    TOTAL 390% off hand damage

    patch 4.3
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 260%
    no increased base damage from talent 0%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 10% for each searing totem stack 50%
    TOTAL 370% off hand damage

    So it is a flat 20% nerf?
    Your math is a bit off, the stacks from searing flames are at 20% each.

  4. #4
    Hö? What nerf do you refer to?

    And just for the mathmatic side of your calculation:

    IF it was a nerf like you say, it would be a 5% nerf, not 20%... but i didn't see that kind of nerf in the patchnotes.

    And much worse: your calculations are totally unlogical. Most of the increases are multipicative...

  5. #5
    I understand it was done in order to kill the dependancy of Lava Lash on searing totem but even with the things you suggested it doesn't look as LL will do more damage-LL doesn't benefit from spellpower. Oh and also the 20% buff to AP was given to help melee dps compete with ranged ones. So I don't really see how it is a buff. Maybe someone will englithen me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Hö? What nerf do you refer to?

    And just for the mathmatic side of your calculation:

    IF it was a nerf like you say, it would be a 5% nerf, not 20%... but i didn't see that kind of nerf in the patchnotes.

    And much worse: your calculations are totally unlogical. Most of the increases are multipicative...
    Even if my modifiers are not calculated using the right formula I doubt 370% will do more damage than 390%
    Last edited by Bumpy; 2011-09-30 at 09:53 AM. Reason: typo

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpy View Post
    I understand it was done in order to kill the dependancy of Lava Lash on searing totem but even with the things you suggested it doesn't look as LL will do more damage-LL doesn't benefit from spellpower. Oh and also the 20% buff to AP was given to help melee dps compete with ranged ones. So I don't really see how it is a buff. Maybe someone will englithen me?


    Even if my modifiers are not calculated using the right formula I doubt 370% will do more damage than 390%
    I try to fix it for you:

    patch 4.2
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 200%
    15/30% increased base damage from talent 30%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 20% for each searing totem stack 100%
    TOTAL 390% off hand damage

    It would be more like 200 * 1.3 * 1.4 * 1.2 *2.0 = 873% weapon damamge not 370...

    patch 4.3
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 260%
    no increased base damage from talent 0%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 10% for each searing totem stack 50%
    TOTAL 370% off hand damage

    260 * 1.2 *1.4 * 2.0 =873% weapon damage

    No change at all to that modifiers. The other changes are much harder to predict.

  7. #7
    Klatar, why are you multiplying the weapon damage by 2 at the end in patch 4.3, considering it will be 50% damage buff not 100% ?
    If I follow your formula it must be like:
    patch 4.3
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 260%
    no increased base damage from talent 0%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 10% for each searing totem stack 50%
    TOTAL 370% off hand damage
    260 * 1,4 * 1,2 * 1,5 = 655 weapon damage.
    Last edited by Bumpy; 2011-09-30 at 10:21 AM. Reason: added additional info

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpy View Post
    Klatar, why are you multiplying the weapon damage by 2 at the end in patch 4.3, considering it will be 50% damage buff not 100% ?
    If I follow your formula it must be like:
    patch 4.3
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 260%
    no increased base damage from talent 0%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 10% for each searing totem stack 50%
    TOTAL 370% off hand damage
    260 * 1,4 * 1,2 * 1,5 = 655 weapon damage.
    Your math is still far off center. If you bothered to check the patch notes you would see that the searing flames stacks adds 20% in both 4.2 and 4.3
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/spell/77701/#14545/14732

  9. #9
    Could be because most of the fights wont allow searing stacks to run their full course, which would also explain why lava lash puts flameshock in an AOE.

    I detect many adds to be nuked asap

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpy View Post
    Klatar, why are you multiplying the weapon damage by 2 at the end in patch 4.3, considering it will be 50% damage buff not 100% ?
    If I follow your formula it must be like:
    patch 4.3
    -------------------------------
    LL base damage 260%
    no increased base damage from talent 0%
    FT on off hand 40%
    from glyph 20%
    5x 10% for each searing totem stack 50%
    TOTAL 370% off hand damage
    260 * 1,4 * 1,2 * 1,5 = 655 weapon damage.
    50%? It's up to 5 stacks and every stack gives 20%. So it's 5*20% = 100% bonus, not 50%.

    You are referring to a change that simply didn't happen.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Sporky0's Avatar
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    There's no need to use maths at all. Just use some common sense and read the current patch notes (subject to change).

    The 30% increase damage LL that was on Imp LL has now been rolled into LL itself. 200% in 4.2, 260% in 4.3
    In 4.2 and 4.3, each application of Searing Flames increases LL damage by 20%.

    Nothing has been removed. Only thing that has been gained is the "Cleave" that has been introduced to LL.

    OP I think you have only been looking at the changes on Boub's post, Which says 10% per searing flame. Which is wrong, Look at the mouse over tooltip for 4.3 Improved Lava Lash
    Last edited by Sporky0; 2011-09-30 at 12:13 PM.

  12. #12
    Are you kidding?
    in 4.2
    LL base damage 200%
    + 30% talent (=60% dmg)
    = 260% dmg, like in 4.3
    ...

  13. #13
    OP was likely confused by this:
    Improved Lava Lash now increases the damage of Lava Lash by 10% for each application of Searing Flames, now also causes your Lava Lash to spread your Flame Shock from the target to up to four enemies within 12 yards.
    It is actually written like that in the news.
    The link however still states the 20% bonus damage per charge. I believe the post is a mistype. Always look at the tooltip links.

    As for the 30% from improved Lava Lash; looking at the current baseversion of Lava Lash (200% weapon damage), the talent bonus raises it up to 260% weapon damage (30% of 200% is 60%). Blizz gave us a 60% base damage buff which makes up the loss of bonus damage from the talent.

    To add to that, Glpyh of Lava Lash doesn't work on the talent bonus, but will work on the 60% extra damage once they are included baseline, giving us another 12% weapon damage. A BUFF!

    Lastly, Lava Lash will additionally benefit from Flamtongue Weapon now, which it currently doesn't as FT raises spellpower, and LL scaling from AP.
    ANOTHER BUFF

    TWO BUFFS, NO NERFS


    the end
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  14. #14
    You are right. I forgot about the glyph

  15. #15
    The Patient Photek's Avatar
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    A Coruña, Spain
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    It's so lovely seeing ppl crying for imaginary nerfs where they are in fact, getting buffed. Almost all classes. lawlz.

  16. #16
    Omanley, don't take this as flaming, but it's really nice to see you happy about a shammy change

    OT - ofc I love it too Looking forward to off-night running Rag, and actualyl being able to hurt the Molten Elementals. And hurt 'em bad.
    - Dum Spiro Spero
    While I breathe, I hope.

  17. #17
    Well, they are unquestionable buffs, aren't they?
    The only buffs we got since 4.0. aside from those are the flat buffs to WF, UE:WF and LL (which of course were great as well).
    What i like most is the change to enh AOE and then the getting-rid-of of spellpower.

    Enh took a huge step forward undeniably, so of course i am happy.
    The only thing left they could still improve in pve enh dps would be to make feral spirits more interesting again (way of scaling change), maybe an improvement of crit/haste or something to make SF/ST/LL more comfortable a mechanic.

    They still have a lot of work to do when it comes to pvp. Totems took several blows same as GW and purge.
    Improving hex would be nice and i wouldn't say no to a gap closer and/or stun as enh
    Oh and the absorb thingy.

    But pve i'd say...98% content.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2011-09-30 at 02:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Photek View Post
    It's so lovely seeing ppl crying for imaginary nerfs where they are in fact, getting buffed. Almost all classes. lawlz.
    I don't know, how it works out for enhancenment, but the flametonugue weapon change is a straight nerf for elemental though. Enahncement also hast some other changes. Losing over 1k spellpower from Flametonuge and getting only 7% more magical damage might end up being a nerf. Though a lagrge potion of their damage doesn't scale with SP so it might work out.

  19. #19
    Current formula used in Rawr (and I think EnhSim):
    Damage = [bwd * llb] * [(1.0 + sfs * (sfb + t12-2p) + ftb) * (1.0 + llt + llg + t11-2p) * fdm]

    So:
    4.2 (no tier bonus's)
    2.0 * (1.0 + 1.0 + 0.4) * (1.0 + 0.3 + 0.2) * mastery
    7.2 (720% weapon damage) * mastery

    4.3 (no tier bonus's)
    2.6 * (1.0 + 1.0 + 0.4) * (1.0 + 0.2) * new flametongue * mastery
    7.488 (750% weapon damage) * 1.07 * mastery
    8.01216 (800% weapon damage) * mastery

    So, not a nerf.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
    Your math is a bit off, the stacks from searing flames are at 20% each.
    This ^^^

    Searing flames still grants 20% LL damage per stack in the new patch notes, not the 10% you stated

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