So Normal Ragnaros is crushing my guilds soul, any help is loved (WOL posted)

[Twoflower]

Everybody needs to avoid avoidable damage better ( lava waves etc ). This will give you less damage taken -> you can replace the priest healer who is pretty weak with another dps.

Raid coordination.

People need to learn their rotations.

Planning ahead.

[Okereke]

Thanks again for all of the replies.

As someone noted, this is only attempts 1-16. Saying "if this is breaking your spirit, than rags probably isn't your issue" isn't a good way to describe it - a couple of the players in the group are former progression raiders (from years back) who just don't feel like putting in 30+ hours a week (or due to full time jobs/other commitments, simply can't). I appreciate those who have been able to point out where our weaknesses are in a helpful way - my raid leader has been looking over the comments and knows what we can do to address these problems. For the person who asked, we were 9/12 pre nerf t11, and then promptly cleared it first nerf. But the raid has always had some strange issues - we were able to down the Elementium Council before we could finish off Magmaw. I also don't know the extent of healer mana by the time wipes are going on, but it sounds like a general derping of not paying attention to unnecessary damage is far worse than anything else.

[Nasriel]

My recommendation which helped my guild alot is to 2 heal it, that extra DPS helps ALOT when it comes to controlling those Sons in P2... we were struggling a fair bit at first but my guild downed him after a night or two of raiding (pre nerf) with only 2 heals. You guys should try the same. It can't hurt.

[Entyice]

For starters all of your casters should get a darkmoon card volcano... easy to get large dps increase.
Your raid comp is less than ideal your running a caster heavy raid comp and missing alot of the right buffs
Should also watch a few videos for a proper strat as it seems when your wiping to easy mechanics like transitions
tanks not picking up sions this is an incredibly easy fight at this point
should also be 2 healing and bring the balance druid instead of one of the mages

[DrKaizor]

I may need to just make a new thread or troll google a bit to figure this out but...

It was mentioned more than a few times that our DPS needs to suck less. That's great but I've been elitist jerks, maxdps, femaledwarfhunterdpsthing, and noxxic for light reading, and I haven't managed much of a dps increase outside getting around 13%(i think the exact was 12.97%) haste for SS to be better or something. About hardcasting aimshots, I thought you were supposed to only cast it when the boss was over 90% hp and/or it was a 1.2 or 1.4ish second cast. 3 does seem very low however with the two RFs at the beginning I'm probably just failing to remember that aimshot rules for the first 10% of the fight.
I've looked up state weights and have been pretty confident that I had a decent grasp on what was what for gemming and reforging.
Gear I cannot do much about, aside from dailies and maybe going back to the bear shoulders, but fuck both of those options.

If anyone can help me figure out WHY my DPS is so low compared to other hunters of my gear that would be awesome. I don't really like to suck.

[Twoflower]

DPS is just one thing. Not standing in the Aoe is another, and from your damage taken statistics, it's a huge problem for your raid group I think your dps would theoreticaly be enugh to kill the boss eventualy, but not if the healers go OOM first. But of course working on both would be best

Sorry, I dont know much about hunters, so I can not comment on your DPS.

[Ecmelt]

This seems really easy to fix.

1st: Tell people to at least know their dps rotations/openings via 1 page of reading..its easy for casuals too.
2nd: Try to make progress like: *Okey guys we avoid all dmg we can dont bother dpsing.* So people focus to avoiding shit instead of dpsing till they understand it and can do it on reflex
3rd: Now with that reflex we dps as well

Works everytime. All i can see is you guys do it all in a chaotic way.

[Cakka]

I may need to just make a new thread or troll google a bit to figure this out but...

It was mentioned more than a few times that our DPS needs to suck less. That's great but I've been elitist jerks, maxdps, femaledwarfhunterdpsthing, and noxxic for light reading, and I haven't managed much of a dps increase outside getting around 13%(i think the exact was 12.97%) haste for SS to be better or something. About hardcasting aimshots, I thought you were supposed to only cast it when the boss was over 90% hp and/or it was a 1.2 or 1.4ish second cast. 3 does seem very low however with the two RFs at the beginning I'm probably just failing to remember that aimshot rules for the first 10% of the fight.
I've looked up state weights and have been pretty confident that I had a decent grasp on what was what for gemming and reforging.
Gear I cannot do much about, aside from dailies and maybe going back to the bear shoulders, but fuck both of those options.

If anyone can help me figure out WHY my DPS is so low compared to other hunters of my gear that would be awesome. I don't really like to suck.

Since you are logging, which is good, you should take a look at your own logs. Compare them to those that have top ranked DPS for spec, check for things like DOT uptimes, cast amounts, damage percentages of different abilities, etc. That will help you identify whats going wrong with yourself. It's not just about stat weights, reforges, etc. The main thing is actually be able to DPS in fights that require you to actually move around. Eg. your mages active times are around 70% which basically means 30% of time they aren't DPSing. I just checked our last raids logs, and every single dps had over 95% active time. Though in defence of yours DPS I have to point out that your healers are pretty much just as bad.

Anyway what I think you should do is not try to teach people how to play their classes because thats not gonna happen before 4.3 if ever. What I think you guys should concentrate is not standing in fires. Eg. the smash should NEVER hit anyone its incredibly easy to avoid because there is VERY long time between the firepatch appearing on the ground and the hammer actually landing, but most importantly as soon as you see the fire patch you know exactly what way to flamewalls will be moving from it. They always move like this:
Raggy
one firewall will be going this way <<<<<<< Hammer >>>>> one firewall be going this way
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx VVV
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx one firewall this way
Since that ability gives huge lead time, and is completely predictable, DONT GET HIT BY IT.

[Tharkkun]

Looking at the compare logs everyone needs to be using their survivability cooldowns and dodge lava waves. Our 1st kill, no lava waves hit and it made a difference.

Hunter: make a /cast deterrence /cancelaura deterrence macro so you can pop it 1 second before seeds explode, then hit it again to remove. You can get the 1st and 3rd set of seeds. Same with the mages. Iceblock before they hit. Shamans should have glyph of stoneclaw totem. Same deal.

Lastly, you should all be pre-potting if you aren't already. If it's content you don't have on farm, pre-pot and pot again during lust phase. Do a 5 second pull countdown and pot on 1 or 2.

We also assign all our DPS to a son. Stunners, melee and knockbacks are the closest. We wiped pre-nerf too many times to count and got him to 5% before the nerf and nearly every wipe was due to personal mistakes. Motivate them to step up their gameplay!

[deathlink]

Hey all,

Posting here since our raid group is having a bit of a problem. The group in the WOL log is generally the same. It's a casual guild with a few very strong players - and we have a few ideas who weak ones are, but we would rather let someone outside the raid group take a look and give an unbiased opinion.

The group was 9/12 normal pre-nerf t11 (got Al'akir to 15%), and was only 2/7 pre nerf normal Firelands. So if possible, we'd like to shore up any weaknesses going into t13, even if it means benching certain people. The best attempts on Rag got him to P4, but nothing past that.

Without Further Commenting - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ow8gyse1vws19nsy/ . Constructive Criticism would be greatly appreciated.

right off the bat.. your carrying people with 11k dps? Wtf? people did that at 80 in basic gear. Replace them

[andr0id]

I feel your pain. My guild is 6/7 on regular also and it looks like we have similar problems.

A few people can't stay out of stuff or be in the right place at the right time. Then a few other people try to "fix" the situation with a brez or long heal and they get nuked as well.

We're going to focus on our weakest links and also tell the healers to let stupid die, it's the only way to learn. We'll get it, but I think it's still a week or two away.

[Rhianne]

If you're going to continue to three heal it, have your disc priest set off the magma traps instead of one of the mages/SP. The priest, as a healer, should be watching health bars, and can bubble someone that's low before triggering. This will help eliminate unnecessary death and help with the mage dps, which is really low atm.

If they're not already, your two tanks should be staying fairly close to each other. Not close enough to get hit by splash damage, but close enough for Prayer of Mending to bounce between them. Tell your disc priest to pop it on cooldown on the tanks. The stacking dot/debuff that they get means that it will be constantly bouncing. This alone will up your disc priests hps. Tell your disc priest that bubble should be cast on the tanks as soon as weakened soul wears off. The Disc priest should be able to solo one of the sons on the first transition (second one might be a bit trickier if they get the dot on them). Phase 2. Your disc priest should bubble/PoM the tank, then get their five stacks of AA. (dodging hammer is important). As soon as seeds come out, and you're grouped up pop the AA for the 15% heals and spam PoH on the groups. Remember to get PoM up and bouncing if it's not already. Spread out and repeat. Transition 2. The Disc priest should be soloing a son, or not dying to the fire. Towards the end of the phase they'll be healing of course. There's more damage coming out during this transition than the first one. Phase 3. No real advice for your priest other than, keep PoM and Bubble up on the tanks, and don't die to the meteors or engulfing flames. Mostly focus on living during this phase, heal as you're able. As has been mentioned, Smite doesn't heal when cast on Rag because of the size of his hit box. Make sure your priest knows this and only smites when he's intentionally building AA stacks (phase 2 it's important). I play a disc priest for this fight, and I love it.

One last piece of general advice. My guild goes right side first, then moves over to the left when the first seeds come out. Because of this, every time we stack up on the right side, there is a hammer within seconds of us grouping up. Make sure your raid knows this is about to happen, and groups up on the very edge so they don't get hit by it. When we stack on the left side, there's an engulfing flame shortly after we group up. Make sure the group knows this and is NOT on the very edge so they can avoid the flame if it's on the center ring.

[andr0id]

http://raidbots.com/comparebot/4e867...6900065b#buffs

Nobody in your raid uses potions LOL. Also one pally got hit by engulfing flames nearly every attempt. Also your dps is bad. This isn't a matter of what you guys are doing wrong, its more a matter of what AREN'T you doing wrong.

It's pointless to waste potions if you can't make it into stage 3 with 10 people alive. If you can do that and still can't kill him, then burn the potions, but as much as he is nerfed and as much as everyone is OP, I hardly think it should be necessary.

As a tank, there is no potion I can drink that can keep other players out of waves or seeds. That's our problem right now, not either tanks health.

[Tharkkun]

Also make 3 macros. When you have people assigned to each number, hit the macro based on whether the transition phase hammer is left, center or right. Hold people accountable for their sons but make sure you don't tunnel vision and only do your own.

12(hammer)345678
5612(hammer)3478
567812(hammer)34

---------- Post added 2011-10-04 at 04:41 PM ----------

If you're going to continue to three heal it, have your disc priest set off the magma traps instead of one of the mages/SP. The priest, as a healer, should be watching health bars, and can bubble someone that's low before triggering. This will help eliminate unnecessary death and help with the mage dps, which is really low atm.

The newest DBM has a monitor that comes up that will show if someone will die when a trap is popped. If you use a mage they can blink immediately upon going up in the air which will dump them back on the ground for a minimal dps loss.

[Stealthedbear]

2 heal it, have your priest go shadow.
This will help a lot, especially in the DPS department. The only thing raid healing needs to go out for is trap damage and the molten seeds+adds. Everything else is avoidable damage. That is the MOST IMPORTANT THING about most of these boss fights, is taking the least amt of dmg that you need to. Having higher raid awareness will help immensely in future raiding.
The only thing I can think of is try to improve raid awareness one way or another. Look at everyone's UI see if it's cluttered. Utilize Vent. Whatever it takes.

[Kurzior]

In case it hasn't been mentioned before, 2 recommendations for healing. Firstly, your disc priest should drop atonement spec for this fight. Until the fix in 4.3 which will give it a 100yd range, it actually doesn't work on ragnaros because of a bug with his hit box. If your priest is smiting at all on this fight, he isn't getting any healing from it, which I suspect is the reason his healing is much lower than your shammy/druid.

Secondly, if at all possible, you should try to got to a 2 heal setup on this fight. The extra dps in transition phases makes life much easier, and the damage, especially post-nerf is more than manageable. Any combination of 2 of your 3 healers should work reasonably well, so don't worry about optimizing that setup too much.

In general, go in, make sure your raiders know what they should be focusing on for an attempt. Spend an attempt or 2 just working on avoiding lava waves. After that, move on to positioning for the sons of flame on the transitions. Typically what works best is assigning everyone a position relative to the hammer, i.e. 1st to the left, 1st to the right and so on. Take the fight 1 phase at a time. If you continue to progress through the fight, everyone will be more motivated to keep working rather than getting discouraged when someone misses a mechanic early on and you have to start all over again.

Lastly, remember, its a long fight with a bunch of mechanics to keep track of. When someone makes a mistake, make sure they know how to fix it, but don't spend 5 minutes detailing all the ways they failed. Deal with the mistake, but make sure no one is being chewed out for it, no matter how big/small it may seem.

Edit: On a more technical side, make sure everyone is using personal defensive cd's. I noticed that your dk tank isn't using AMS more than once per attempt as well as a few others. Mages should be using Mage Ward on magma trap detonations and magma seeds (also a dps buff for them), etc. These are all relatively small things, but they add up, especially if you go to 2-healing.

[Aoyi]

Raid awareness really is the most important part of this fight. There are 2 safe zones for the flame walls that you raid needs to stand in. They aren't safe in that you won't take damage if you stand still, but safe in that it only takes one step forward or back to be safe. Also giving people their assignments for each of the 3 possible hammer locations before the fight begins really helps. Phase 3 seems to have a lot going on and some people panic, but once you get the flow of the meteors down, it becomes quite easy. Make sure to keep people spread out slightly in that phase and leave the outermost part of the platform for meteor kiting. Be sure to call out whenever a meteor is about to switch targets.

[Stealthedbear]

For comparison, our first rag kill was the first week he got nerfed. I feel like this is a good parse, only because we had six living meteors up, a seventh about to be up, and all but the hunter dead (This mainly happened because one or two of our DPS died early to a meteor). We 3 healed it.
The next week, when we got to p3 with everyone alive, it was cake.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fb...?s=1908&e=2570
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fb...?s=1908&e=2570

As far as transition phases, make sure people use their stuns, deathgrips. And after a sons of flame hits 50% to move onto the next one.

[Deleted]

a few tricks:

If your healers can do it, then go with only 2 healers. That will speed you up alot.
On the last transition phase, leave 1 add up, so that you can nuke one of the big adds but remember to kill the small one just before raggy comes up.
Potions on every role in your raid is good thing aswell

[Toxigen]

Honestly...that is raid-wide bad right there. You guys have a lot of reading / practice / planning to do.

It amazes me how easy this game has become. This guild is seeing an end boss and they aren't even using potions?

le sigh...

Infracted - Wilderness