Sinestra Difficulty

[Deleted]

On 10 man this fight is quite a faceroll right now. You can go with 3 healers, one full focus on dispelling and still not have any trouble dps wise. The buff will run out around 10 %, BL the rest and its done.

On 25 man the last time ive done it is months ago, in t11 gear. The fight wasnt so hard but just very unforgiving, so I dont think it can be outgeared on 25 man as much as on 10 man.

[Jeffari]

Killed it in 25 man last tier pre nerf and I can say with competent players, its not hard. The biggest thing to be vocal about is wrack dispelling and CD usage. Giving wrack targets blessing sac, pain supression, guardian angel etc to prolong the wrack debuff is huge. Cutters are so simple, people just need to wake up. If an orb spawns near you, you start moving, simple. Run into the open area and cross paths with your partner kiting the other orb, get back into position and win. Death grip, gouge, repentance, blind all work to interrupt the add in the back. I'm sure there are plenty more CC's but I just forget.

I could hardly call council harder, especially these days with gear. People just seem to have a hard time paying attention to debuffs it seems.

[DraconusIX]

In 25 man right now, difficulty likely goes:
heroic Ragnaros> heroic ascendant council>heroic sinestra > Heroic Baelroc (al'akir in there somewhere)

In 10 man
Heroic ragnaros>heroic sinestra>heroic ascendant council

While the dps and gear requirements are a lot easier for sinestra and ascendant council....they are not very derp unfriendly and one mistake by ANY player can wipe the raid.

I would also probably argue heroic halion 25 is harder then some of the firelands heroics at this point for the "average" guild.

[Rau]

She's still a challenge, we found her harder than all the heroics in Firelands pre-nerf bar HC Rag. So if you want to go for her you'd better make sure people know what they're doing and what they're in for. We're a 10m guild with very strong DPS so for us the healing and dispelling of Wrack was the biggest problem. I'd say healers really need to know what they're doing for that encounter and they should probably get Sinestra Wrack Helper to simplify it.

HC Rag > Sinestra > HC AC

[Sulf]

You can't outgear people being retards while kiting orbs.

Thanks for the enlightening post.

[Deleted]

There we go again...fighting about difficulties. Hope one size will come and end all this...

Tier 11 wasn't harder at 10 mode. Certain fights were. On the other hand, fights like Ascendant Council and Al Akir were harder on 25.
If you take 20 bosses, 39 if you count the difficulty levels and try to figure out a single fight with the perfect balance, you would come to the following result:

NONE!

What a crappy idea they had to even attempt to do this one lock/same loot/same achivements experiment in the first place!

1 raid with different everything for X' sizes
1 raid 1 lock one size, or
Certan size 1 lock for the given raid. Like in TBC.

This system we have now is C**P!!!

[TyrianFC]

I can sum up most of this thread by saying. If you are 6/7 Heroic, wondering what it'll be like to go back and do Sinestra, and how hard she'll be:

- Wrack needs to be handled well, irrespective of recent gear upgrades
- Orbs needs to be handled well, irrespective of recent gear upgrades
- Healers need to learn how to correctly prioritise healing in Phase 3, irrespective of recent gear upgrades
- While the fight has been made easier in various ways due to said gear upgrades, she's not a pushover. She's still below Heroic Ragnaros difficulty level, somewhere around Heroic Ascendant Council level, but still above everything else in T11/12 currently.
- Dont expect that because you hit 6/7 Heroic in Firelands, that you have a Sinestra kill in the bag.
- It's very EASY to wipe to Sinestra if you don't have thorough experience doing the fight, due to the multitude of split-second decisions needed in Phase 3 (Wrack management, dispell management, orb management, when to heal who etc)

And most of all...

- If you want to go back and do Sinestra, take her seriously. Dont expect that 'because shes tier 11' she will just fall over. Put aside some proper hours/raid nights, and learn+study the nuances of the strats guilds use to kill her.

/thread

[nadrii]

Let's put it this way. We one shot every boss in firelands on heroic this week and finished in 1h 40m. We then proceeded to wipe to sinestra a few times.

Not that it's harder but people tend to lighten up when they think the "real" raiding is done and things can still go very wrong very quickly on this fight.

[Yaney]

From personal exp, Sinestra was doable after 2-3 weeks of FL simply by outgearing (talking about 10man ofc), we killed her while still having Calen buff and hpally and disco priest and 6 dps.

[Deleted]

Killing her after 3 nights of wiping was very satisfying... I'd say HC Rag > Sinestra > HC AC. Baleroc/Al'Akir don't even come close in the amount of tries needed to kill these 3. Gear helps but doesn't help that much with wrack/orbs as said by most here.

[KaPe]

I do have to ask about this "Council was a joke" - this is about 10 man, right? I still consider this fight worst T11 heroic by far - even worse than Al'akir. Al'akir you could always combat res and it was only single person dying at times. Council was usually instant wipe if you messed up orbs, lightning rods, aoe and sometimes Harden Skin. Unless 'joke' part involves zerging P2 and dealing with longer P3 using superior gear.

Not to mention those effing bugs. Yeah, fire patch staying there for hours, we had that one too. Or CL going off *after* P3 bubbles appeared. Good times.

Compared to this, Sinestra was much easier. And I suppose I had (have) "hard" role as Wrack dispeler, which turned out to be quite easy, especially with good GS usage.

[Tarox]

There's still some execution to be done on the fight, but it's a much easier fight now than it was before. My guild is just going to farm it every week because the gear from there is still nice. The only thing of real concern are the cutter beams which has a learning curve if you've never done them before, but other than that it's pretty easy.

You can see how my guild does it from our videos @ http://www.youtube.com/nodonkeys1

[Exhorder]

Fireland heroic gear trivializes her to some extent, but she's still a much bigger challenge than 6/7 HM FL.
You basically kill her before the haste buff wears off nowadays. Cutters are still deadly though.

[Chronnos]

but if you have a mage, it's a really good idea to get them the Shard of Woe. It should be BiS for the rest of the expansion (for arcane).

I wouldn't count on it, i think it was already nerfed on the PTR. And if not it should be nerfed just as they did with the DMC Hurricane which would have also been BiS for enhancers and SV hunters till the end of the x-pack.

[Saegno]

No.
My guild was 6/7H 25m pre-nerf and we go back in weekly to farm for shard of woes among other items. She is a 2 shot on a bad night but most times a 1 shot.
As long as no one screws up cutters or kills whelps early then it's gg.

---------- Post added 2011-10-06 at 11:49 AM ----------

I wouldn't count on it, i think it was already nerfed on the PTR. And if not it should be nerfed just as they did with the DMC Hurricane which would have also been BiS for enhancers and SV hunters till the end of the x-pack.

The nerf to shard of woe was a healing nerf, not one for arcane. Arcane was always the 205 mana reduction or whatever it was, holy and nature spells were the 400ish. The nerf will have no affect on how it performs for arcane and should still be either BiS or second BiS for 4.3.

[Seriss]

My experience is mostly 25-man, so I will comment from this angle.

When T11 was current content, the most difficult thing with Sinestra was to get past Cho'gall at all. Seriously, Cho'gall gave my guild such a lot of trouble, it's unbelievable. Compared to him, Sinestra seemed like a piece of cake. You need a decent dispeller/healer for the Wracks. And you need to handle the orbs. And you have a few little dragons here and there to take care of. That's it. Depending on which role you have, you don't have to pay attention to anything but the orbs.

Sinestra doesn't have many abilities. This is what made her feel so easy after the brickwall that Cho'gall was for my guild for some reason.

We were still farming her up until 2 or 3 weeks ago for Shards and the one or the other special piece that people still wanted. With better gear, the fight wasn't much different. Actually, the only real difference that was obvious was that you killed her while the haste buff was still up. Previously, you'd still have about 20% to go without a haste buff (less than that the better your gear got from farming all those heroic bosses in T11 week after week).

[Wilderness]

If you killed Sinestra in T11 then its pretty much the same difficulty as the nerfed 6/7 - pretty easy. If you didn't kill her in T11 then its going to be harder than nerfed H 6/7 because they murdered those fights and Sinestra mechanics will be all new to you. With T12 gear Sinestra was definitely easier than 6/7 pre-nerf. The only reason people think its more difficult is because they didn't kill it in T11. As it was a heroic only boss its an entirely new fight to learn whereas T12 heroics were challenging but you knew what to expect or what you had to do. That's all.

Besides P2 orbs, Council can be outgeared. Sinestra P3 can't really be outgeared.

You can't outgear people being retards while kiting orbs.

Both Council and Sinestra can be outgeared, and both face a retard check with kiting orbs. You outgear Sinestra by pushing transition with 1 set of whelps and 1 wrack, which means you have lust for P3 when the buff runs out - which it will mostly be dead by then anyway due to better dps in T12 gear. People who don't know the fight have to learn the positioning and how to handle wrack, but its absolutely easier due to gear.

For arcane the trinket is very much BiS, not so for other casters. It's practically legendary for them.

but if you have a mage, it's a really good idea to get them the Shard of Woe. It should be BiS for the rest of the expansion (for arcane).

The H Rag trinket already beats out SoW so unless Blizzard completely drops the ball on caster trinkets in T13 at least one of them will surpass it as well. With the nerf to SoW for healers coming in 4.3 I don't think it will stay as their BiS either - which is fine, a trinket from the first tier, even on the heroic only boss, shouldn't last the rest of an expansion.