1. #1

    Archangel 'rotation' seems to waste a lot of mana here

    I'm only 40 to 50 so I wonder if it's temporary (all heirloom pieces that give rep plus some blues, little spirit).



    It appears that if only shield and HOT and lightly heal I can get away with it most of the time. Is it normal?

    Should Archangel be used on 5 stacks only and not prolong it?

  2. #2
    Archangel is not actually used for the mana it returns. This is true at any level. You use archangel simply to heal "harder" when you need to, as if you were popping a +Intellect (or +spellpower) trinket effect.

    Casting five heals, and then casting Archangel, costs more mana than you actually get back.
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  3. #3
    Yeah the problem is I read it's a "conservation" rotation, which does waste mana but it goes on and on until one needs to use the cooldown. But it appears if I keep on it on and on and on I waste lots of mana. I guess the wording of that I read is wrong. Spirit becomes useless since there is a lot of casting. Unless I miss something.

    I wonder if one could use it only as an 'opener' and later again if needed.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    I guess the wording of that I read is wrong. Spirit becomes useless since there is a lot of casting. Unless I miss something.
    The 5 second rule is gone. Now you have one regen out of combat, and one in combat. Casting makes no difference.

  5. #5
    I've healed entire fights w/ mostly atonement. You don't hit archangel at 5 stacks, just if you end up actually needing it. It's like casting the generic heal if you're not atonement spec'd, but more fun. What you're also missing is the portion of Evangelism is "reduces the mana cost of those spells by 6%." so 30% off of those spells while you have 5 stacks.

    You're still going to use mana doing holy fire/atonement; but you're not going to be blowing massive amounts of it, nor just standing there doing nothing. There's no wasted mana if you're using it to a) kill stuff faster; b) healing up the minor wounds of the group.
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  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Its slightly more mana then spamming heal, close to mana neutral at higher gear levels. As has been stated previously, Archangel is for a slow buildup for a 15% throughput boost for a short while, and there is no Mp5 rule anymore, only slight regen reduction in combat.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-02 at 03:10 AM ----------

    At your level, OP, I would strongly suggest Attonement healing. At higher levels, holy fire can be used to gradually build up/maintain Evangalism stacks, as it is extremely cheap, cheaper then heal, I believe.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dawilord View Post
    The 5 second rule is gone. Now you have one regen out of combat, and one in combat. Casting makes no difference.
    But I read in spirit's tooltip "when not casting" explicitly.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-02 at 09:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sinisterwyvern View Post
    I've healed entire fights w/ mostly atonement. You don't hit archangel at 5 stacks, just if you end up actually needing it. It's like casting the generic heal if you're not atonement spec'd, but more fun. What you're also missing is the portion of Evangelism is "reduces the mana cost of those spells by 6%." so 30% off of those spells while you have 5 stacks.

    You're still going to use mana doing holy fire/atonement; but you're not going to be blowing massive amounts of it, nor just standing there doing nothing. There's no wasted mana if you're using it to a) kill stuff faster; b) healing up the minor wounds of the group.
    Then it might be something with the level (40-50) since doing it a lot goes to half mana or less in 15-30 seconds

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinisterwyvern View Post
    It's like casting the generic heal if you're not atonement spec'd, but more fun.
    This right here. The entire mechanic of Archangel is to have an HPS boost for when you need it.

    In all other wise, HF/Smite spam just replaces Heal spam, for those low-damage scenarios.
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  9. #9
    I guess what I missed is that it is not destined to be spammable [when no healing is required].

    Because I had a guild mate trying to compete on DPS with the DPSes but I guess that's not what it is meant to be in fights you are not overgeared since at the end of the day it will oom.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Archangel is not actually used for the mana it returns. This is true at any level. You use archangel simply to heal "harder" when you need to, as if you were popping a +Intellect (or +spellpower) trinket effect.

    Casting five heals, and then casting Archangel, costs more mana than you actually get back.
    What Kelesti is saying is generally accepted as the right answer, but I have an alternative point of view to consider.

    During low damage phases, you should almost always be using Penance and Holy Fire on cooldown while you're stacking evangelism.

    Stacking evangelism lowers the mana cost of Penance by up to 30%.

    Popping wings gives you a little bit of mana back, but also boosts the efficiency of all subsequent heals by 15%.

    Holy Fire is both the highest throughput and most efficient single target healing spell in our entire spelbook.

    If you kept maximum uptime on AA (and I believe this to be the correct answer, but that makes me unusual) you'll average 1 smite per holy fire. If you use AA only for burst you can stack evangelism with Holy Fire only, which means you're not actually losing ANY mana on archangel. You'd be using a spell you want to use regardless, so you couldn't consider it a mana loss.

    Smite isn't that great but it actually has better efficiency than Heal in all situations (something I didn't realize for a long time - infact I used to say the opposite).

    Any single one of these points could be used as evidence for evangelism/AA NOT being a mana loss, but a pretty significant mana gain. In fact, if you analyze a max-throughput AoE healing situation for both SoS and AA/A, the AA/A priest gets about 50% more healing overall before going OOM.

    If you want, I can give you better data.
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-10-02 at 10:46 PM.

  11. #11
    Oh right, I missed Penance is getting a boost.

    Also, I'd like to point out the whole thing is a 'smart' spell so it will not work correctly in panic situations. So another reason to be strictly conservation.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    But I read in spirit's tooltip "when not casting" explicitly.
    Which is kind of outdated (wrong) since it only applies to non-healers (and it should be "when not in combat").
    All healers get a portion of that regen even when in combat.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2011-10-03 at 12:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    I guess what I missed is that it is not destined to be spammable [when no healing is required].

    Because I had a guild mate trying to compete on DPS with the DPSes but I guess that's not what it is meant to be in fights you are not overgeared since at the end of the day it will oom.
    It is definitely spammable and you shouldn't run OOM doing it.

  14. #14
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    For leveling (in dungeons) I would suggest completely ditching Archangel and Atonement. My boyfriend and I are leveling through dungeons (2nd priest lols) and I have yet to tell him to stop pulling because I need mana. Yeah it's very very boring, just standing around waiting for the tank to take damage, but it's really mana efficient. Besides also keep in mind, that if you have full heirloom it means your bubble is probs super strong; sometimes I bubble him and sit down to have a drink until the bubble pops. I'd forgotten just how (extra) easy discs are at low levels

  15. #15
    I specced my fledgling priest atonement/Archangel right from the start, and never went OOM either, except I'm always casting and thus never bored. In fact I keep telling tanks that if I'm above 80% mana then they're not pulling fast enough/enough packs at once. The runs usually end up with the tanks pulling everything in range and me never going under 80% mana still. If you OOM a heirloomed priest while healing, no matter what happens you're doing it wrong.

    Edit: Ok, so maybe I should add a small caveat that, it kind of assumes the tank isn't a complete tard wearing cloth and actually does hold some aggro, but that's hardly a challenge nowadays.
    Last edited by Mutsumi; 2011-10-03 at 06:57 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODDLAWL View Post
    For leveling (in dungeons) I would suggest completely ditching Archangel and Atonement. My boyfriend and I are leveling through dungeons (2nd priest lols) and I have yet to tell him to stop pulling because I need mana. Yeah it's very very boring, just standing around waiting for the tank to take damage, but it's really mana efficient. Besides also keep in mind, that if you have full heirloom it means your bubble is probs super strong; sometimes I bubble him and sit down to have a drink until the bubble pops. I'd forgotten just how (extra) easy discs are at low levels

    Or...you could spec AA/A and truly enjoy leveling in dungeons while you heal with Holy Fire and Smite. Most of the damage taken in reg dungeons is very low. (Unless you heal DPS that decides to pull)
    If you find yourself low on mana most likely you are shielding the tank too much and not getting the rapture proc. Most 5 man tanks can be healed with just Renew, Holy Fire HoTs and Smite. Keep in mind the key to using AA/A spec is to SAVE your wings till damage gets crazy, keeping a full stack of 5 saves a ton of mana when using HF, Smite and Penance.

    If you are looking to raid with AA/A spec learning to control when and when not to use your spells is key, reg dungeons are the best place to practice.

  17. #17
    I guess the balance is completely different in 85 because in levelling there is definitely oom issues if you spam spite and holy fire all the time unless you stop a lot (but that's not spamming), plus use archangel plus use other mana spells. Spamming them alone does not give unlimited mana for sure.

    [I have no mana+ trinkets]
    Last edited by FemaleGoblinMage; 2011-10-04 at 01:24 AM.

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