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  1. #1

    Demo, hardest opener of all specs/class ?

    i have a 85 of each and i must say... i think it is...

    hoping i have everything in the right order, but geez... (correct me if i'm wrong)

    prepot, SB 1 sec before the pull, CoE, quick immolate to make stuff proc (optional), demon soul, chalice, meta, immo aura if in melee, felstorm, track procs, BoD, Doomguard, refresh immo with HoG, Corruption, soulburn/instant pup, shadowflame, thennnn start some kind of rotation... and refresh BoD after teh 30 sec tick before meta expires...

    i find myself visualising the pull in my head just to make sure i dont f... things up... got a couple macros to help, but still..

    anyone things that another class/spec'S opener is more complicated than this ?

  2. #2
    Deleted
    I have an entire tiny bar with 12 buttons that I start clicking before a pull in order to spare myself the thinging. It doesn't inclue potion, doomguard and shadowflame which I click after I'm done with the bar. Oh, and it includes macros. Chalice, petattack, Felstorm and engineering gloves are, for example, merged into some other buttons. Can't remember what else is, but I click every single one of them oe-by-one every pull. Couldn't do it right before I put a bar there. Not in time for instant-Felpuppy from a shard burnt before pull :P

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrioception View Post
    I have an entire tiny bar with 12 buttons that I start clicking before a pull in order to spare myself the thinging.
    hmm, you make me wonder if i could make a super "pull" macro with all that stuff in it... :P

    would be something like that :


    /castsequence reset=30 Volcanic Potion, Shadow Bolt, Curse of the Elements, Immolate, Moonwell Chalice, Demon Soul, Metamorphosis, Immolation Aura(Metamorphosis), Bane of Doom, Hand of Gul'dan, Corruption, Felstorm,


    for some reasons, if i put felstorm before in the macro, the macro just stops there (i used to want to put it right before BoD, is it because of the () of immo aura?)




    -----

    looks like its working, any tips/comments ?
    volcanic still has 7-8 sec left at the end there if i want to pop doomguard while the buff is up. DMC-V seems to be up most of the time at the end there also, so OP doomguard ! all that's left if to manually instant summon my felpup after felstorm is over
    Last edited by Morggane; 2011-10-03 at 05:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    I do something similar and works really good. Allthough your not swapping pets. Mine looks like:

    /castsequence reset=30 Curse or the Elements, Shadow Bolt, Moonwell Chalice, Demon Soul, Metamorphosis, Immolate, Hand of Gul'dan, Immolation Aura, Bane of Doom, Soulburn, Summon Felhunter, Corruption, Felstorm, Shadow Bolt
    /petattack

    I got powa aura's that show me what I need to cast and also checks when I should pop Doomguard (Check if And Lightweave, and Power Torrent , And Volcanic Destruction are all active.)

    I don't have potion in there, I click that one manually, Also Felstorm I manually click (cause the macro bugs with it). I think the /Petattack speaks for itself.

    Nice to try as well is a midfight macro, 1 button is easier then 7 in a row, fe:

    /castsequence reset=30 Summon Felguard, Demon Soul, Soulburn, Summon Felhunter, Moonwell Chalice, Metamorphosis, Immolation Aura, Shadow Bolt, Shadow Bolt)

    The Shadow bolt at the end is so you don't accidently cast a hard felguard or a new Curse. (Which happened to me a lot ) My second potion I always cast after the summon Felguard in the above macro (manually)

    Try it and tweak as you please. I at least get very very good results with these.

  5. #5
    It's really not that much and if you think about it, what do you do after that? sbolt x a million.
    Lock -- My Main
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Morggane View Post
    hmm, you make me wonder if i could make a super "pull" macro with all that stuff in it... :P

    would be something like that :


    /castsequence reset=30 Volcanic Potion, Shadow Bolt, Curse of the Elements, Immolate, Moonwell Chalice, Demon Soul, Metamorphosis, Immolation Aura(Metamorphosis), Bane of Doom, Hand of Gul'dan, Corruption, Felstorm,


    for some reasons, if i put felstorm before in the macro, the macro just stops there (i used to want to put it right before BoD, is it because of the () of immo aura?)




    -----

    looks like its working, any tips/comments ?
    volcanic still has 7-8 sec left at the end there if i want to pop doomguard while the buff is up. DMC-V seems to be up most of the time at the end there also, so OP doomguard ! all that's left if to manually instant summon my felpup after felstorm is over
    Shoudnt Immolate be casted after Meta+demon soul?

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Shoudnt Immolate be casted after Meta+demon soul?
    not so important now, as dots update every tick- any buffs like meta will apply to any dots (except BoD?? someone correct me on that?) already applied.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ensipid View Post
    It's really not that much and if you think about it, what do you do after that? sbolt x a million.
    I want to say you don't play a demo lock. It is easily the most difficult opener and even after the opener quite likely the most difficult spec to play in the game. I don't have all 10 classes myself but I know someone who does, he insists feral druid dps is harder to perform effectively on and I can't disprove it since one of the classes I don't have is Druid, but he agrees fully the demo lock comes in second.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtaroth View Post
    not so important now, as dots update every tick- any buffs like meta will apply to any dots (except BoD?? someone correct me on that?) already applied.
    I'm not the most informed nor am I the best player out there by quite some distance, but I do not believe that dots update every tick, they update each time they get refreshed. When Hand of Gul'dan hits and refreshes your immolate, it would then start get bonuses from your Metamorphosis. The reason OP said he refreshes Bane of Doom after the 30 second tick before Metamorphosis falls is because that entire BoD will have the Meta bonus damage in that case. Same applies to all dots.
    Last edited by Aethilus; 2011-10-03 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Addition

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post
    I want to say you don't play a demo lock. It is easily the most difficult opener and even after the opener quite likely the most difficult spec to play in the game. I don't have all 10 classes myself but I know someone who does, he insists feral druid dps is harder to perform effectively on and I can't disprove it since one of the classes I don't have is Druid, but he agrees fully the demo lock comes in second.
    I've always found affliction to be a bit more difficult, personally- Demo, to me, doesn't seem to flow very well after the first 20 seconds or so. Plus it irks me that i have to stagger cooldowns, as meta's CD is dependant on RNG. I can see where you're coming from though- compared to most classes, demo is considerably more complicated, and between demo and affliction is more of a playstyle choice than anything else

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtaroth View Post
    I've always found affliction to be a bit more difficult, personally- Demo, to me, doesn't seem to flow very well after the first 20 seconds or so. Plus it irks me that i have to stagger cooldowns, as meta's CD is dependant on RNG. I can see where you're coming from though- compared to most classes, demo is considerably more complicated, and between demo and affliction is more of a playstyle choice than anything else
    I'm confused, You say Affliction is more difficult then you list off facts that make Demo more difficult. It is a playstyle choice entirely unless you really need the theoretical 1-3% increase that Affliction might provide, at the cost of lesser aoe, no felguard stun, etc.

    I wasn't saying all locks should be Demo because it is challenging, I'm just saying that Demo is challenging, I play it because I love the challenge.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post
    I'm confused, You say Affliction is more difficult then you list off facts that make Demo more difficult. It is a playstyle choice entirely unless you really need the theoretical 1-3% increase that Affliction might provide, at the cost of lesser aoe, no felguard stun, etc.
    I'd hardly call staggering cooldowns, which is the only thing really listed as being difficult. Demo just feels clunky and broken atm to me, if they fixed the felguard to be superior to the felhunter and tuned mastery scaling a bit I'd go back to playing it, but as it stands I can live without it, though heroic ragnaros is rapidly pushing me in the direction of playing demo just for that fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post
    I wasn't saying all locks should be Demo because it is challenging, I'm just saying that Demo is challenging, I play it because I love the challenge.
    I play affliction for the same reason, demo bores me (Please note; I'm not saying demo is easy - just that I don't find what makes it tricky interest, I prefer the plate balancing act that is affliction to the cooldown timing / pet swapping of demo), but I think affliction, demo and feral druids are easily the three hardest dps classes to play.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Hey! Funny enough, I am playing a cat as my main and a demo/affli Warlock as my alt. I honestly do not find anything difficult about feral dps, the only thing that takes a bit of practice in the beginning, is the opener. Affliction in general is a LOT easier than demo, although the latter I find only really difficult in heavy movement situations. Affliction only tends to be demanding when you need to keep dots at 2-3 targets, because of the debuff you need to keep up on all targets.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ensipid View Post
    It's really not that much and if you think about it, what do you do after that? sbolt x a million.
    If it was only pushing SB you would see SB as being at a solid 40% of the damage done in your recount/skada which is clearly not the case.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtaroth View Post
    not so important now, as dots update every tick- any buffs like meta will apply to any dots (except BoD?? someone correct me on that?) already applied.
    This is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post
    I'm not the most informed nor am I the best player out there by quite some distance, but I do not believe that dots update every tick, they update each time they get refreshed. When Hand of Gul'dan hits and refreshes your immolate, it would then start get bonuses from your Metamorphosis. The reason OP said he refreshes Bane of Doom after the 30 second tick before Metamorphosis falls is because that entire BoD will have the Meta bonus damage in that case. Same applies to all dots.
    This is right.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I'd hardly call staggering cooldowns, which is the only thing really listed as being difficult. Demo just feels clunky and broken atm to me, if they fixed the felguard to be superior to the felhunter and tuned mastery scaling a bit I'd go back to playing it, but as it stands I can live without it, though heroic ragnaros is rapidly pushing me in the direction of playing demo just for that fight.
    To me demo feels more difficult by quite some distance, I agree that it can feel clunky and broken due to staggering cooldowns, and pet swapping. I'm not hugely into lore or specifically class-lore, but I never post on but I do silently curse IRL when Warlocks want to name their Demons and become friends with them, which is the hunter class-lore. To me the pet swapping is a excellent feel and one of the reasons I play the spec, my demon is a tool that I use to accomplish a goal, when it is done with its job, I'm done with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I play affliction for the same reason, demo bores me (Please note; I'm not saying demo is easy - just that I don't find what makes it tricky interest, I prefer the plate balancing act that is affliction to the cooldown timing / pet swapping of demo), but I think affliction, demo and feral druids are easily the three hardest dps classes to play.
    I have no trouble whatsoever with playing affliction. It doesn't seem difficult at all. My only other dps level 85 is an elemental shaman and it is a complete faceroll for me. I set up one power aura which tracks how many lightning shield charges I have and otherwise there are 5 buttons total, 6 if you count elemental mastery but since its an alt I just macroed it in with lava burst and called it a day.

    Conclusion: I think affliction easily beats out elem shaman, but falls immensely short to demonology.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtaroth View Post
    not so important now, as dots update every tick- any buffs like meta will apply to any dots (except BoD?? someone correct me on that?) already applied.
    Why are people still saying this? SO many times people have made clear to others. DoTs DO NOT update every tick and need to be refreshed for BUFFS, but they DO update on a tick to tick basis for DEBUFFS (except SB Debuff *forgotten the name*)

    And from the classes I've played, Demo is particularly fiddly to start, IF you are interested in popping your doomguard and using your DoTs when you have all your buffs proc'd. I order to do this, I start with a Shadowflame if I can.
    Pre-pot > CoE > HoG> Shadowflame > *procs*, if not, the Immolate/Corruption > Chalice > Meta > Immolation Aura > Doomguard > Felstorm> BoD > Immolate > Corruption > HoG/Shadowflame > Soulburn > Summon Felguard > Filler/whatever needs refreshing.
    I won't use my Meta, Doomguard, Felstorm or BoD until I have atleast proc'd Volcanic Destruction.

    I have noticed, however, a lot of warlocks don't bother to check their buffs and just go for it, therefore allowing their Doom and Meta to be sub the standard they could be.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Morggane View Post
    anyone things that another class/spec'S opener is more complicated than this ?
    Well I do find my Frost Mage's Double DF opener to be kinda tricky. It goes like this:
    Icy Veins > Frostbolt to fish for procs > Frostfire Orb > Deep Freeze > Cold Snap > Deep Freeze > Frostfire Orb > Use the HUGE amount of procs generated without wasting any > Icy Veins as soon as the first ends.
    It's not as complicated as Demo's opener, but it's fun and tricky and does require good attention to maximize the burst from it.

  18. #18
    you doing slightly wrong, the correct opener would be ..... start fight with felguard, 5 sec before pull use soulburn, then soul harvest ... 1 sec before pull prepot, then use moonwell trinket, demon soul, meta, then pet whirlwind, then apply immolate, corruption, BoD, immolation aura, shadowflame, wait for DMC:V to proc(start rotation if have enough time), use doomguard, summon felhunter ( should be still instant cast from the soulburn that was used before pull). :P
    BETA CLUB

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonidze View Post
    you doing slightly wrong, the correct opener would be ..... start fight with felguard, 5 sec before pull use soulburn, then soul harvest ... 1 sec before pull prepot, then use moonwell trinket, demon soul, meta, then pet whirlwind, then apply immolate, corruption, BoD, immolation aura, shadowflame, wait for DMC:V to proc(start rotation if have enough time), use doomguard, summon felhunter ( should be still instant cast from the soulburn that was used before pull). :P
    You missed applying Shadow and Flame before your opener with a pre-cast Shadow Bolt. OP's opener is better than what you listed.

    edit: Nor did you apply CoE. Tisk tisk...

  20. #20
    yeah, i didnt not want to include instant summon felpup or doomguard in that macro just so i can use it very pull.

    on some fight, you want to keep the felguard, and on some pulls, the doomguard isnt up (and blocks the macro)

    ----

    DEmonididze mentioned soul harvest. you use that to make stuff proc before the pull is thast it ?

    also, i know i should felstorm earlier, but for some reasons, if i put it sooner in the macro, it jams at that point, i don't know why.

    also, yeah, the 1st immolate in that macro is just to help with the procs. i refresh it shortly after i pop meta + chalice + DS with HoG.



    nice tips everyone, ty
    Last edited by Morggane; 2011-10-03 at 07:25 PM.

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