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  1. #1

    Are druids nerfs really that bad?

    So with upcoming WG nerf 20% reduce healing and increased CD by 2 secs with Glyph. Does this make druids TOTALLY WORTHLESS? A friend is having a heart attack about this and claiming druids are garbage now? I tried healing a new 5 man heroic on the PTR and it was mindless rejuv everyone, LBx3 tank and spam WG every CD. Regrowth or Swiftmend if they hit less then 50%. Never druid healed but it seemed to be a no brainer. I never ran out of mana and I could hot every person in the group up even if they were full. It was almost like a little game Rejuv,WG,Regrowth and keep 3LB's on the tank all at once.

    Nerf seemed small to me druids need to do something other than instant casts. Buff RG,Nourish or Healing touch where they have some value I guess. But yet again my question is are druids viable after patch?

  2. #2
    viable yes, optimal no.

    odds are they will be sat out of world first kills due to lack of raid cooldown

    tranquility is the ONLY saving grace we have left

  3. #3
    Yes it makes druids now completely and totally worthless, delete your druid's now.

    Sarcasm off... No it doesn't make them worthless, druid's will still probably be the best throughput healer's although holy priest's will be close if not a bit better. Any good guild want's a mix of healers to compliment each other, a druid alone is pretty weak since the majority of the heals are HoT's, put a resto druid and a holy priest together and it's very strong. Every healer doesn't need a mitigation raid CD, plus with the addition of t13 4pc tank bonus's, raid CD's will not be in short supply.


  4. #4
    Why would blizzard make a healer even close to useless? There really is no reason to be worried. At all. There never is, and there never will be.There will be further changes.

    Even then. I welcome anything that makes my class tougher to compete with. It adds a little elbow grease to the gameplay.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by reverendball View Post
    viable yes, optimal no.

    odds are they will be sat out of world first kills due to lack of raid cooldown

    tranquility is the ONLY saving grace we have left
    And now that Holy priests are getting buffed with their cooldowns...i'm scared

  6. #6
    Given that T13 will be a CD-driven tier (from what we all can tell from the tank tier bonuses), I only feel better for not being a shaman. We still have Tranquility and ToL, but how much of H T13 can we go through by "healing harder"?

    They're bringing our hps in line with the other healers, except that higher hps is all we can bring. Just like shamans, if shit hits the fan all we can do is heal more, while priests bring decent CDs for both specs and paladins literally have more CDs than healing spells.

    Druids might even have their spot unchanged on 25s since you can bring one of each healer if you want, but I'm curious to see how a shaman/druid comp will work on 10-mans.

    And I doubt we'll see drastic changes before 4.3 hits. They wanted to reduce our hps and they did, they didn't mention anything else on that balance blog post.

  7. #7
    ummm have you SEEN how much WG heals??

    Usually on my recount it's close to 40% of my healing. 20% will be noticeable but still wont kick druids out of the top spot.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokuto View Post
    Given that T13 will be a CD-driven tier (from what we all can tell from the tank tier bonuses), I only feel better for not being a shaman. We still have Tranquility and ToL, but how much of H T13 can we go through by "healing harder"?

    They're bringing our hps in line with the other healers, except that higher hps is all we can bring. Just like shamans, if shit hits the fan all we can do is heal more, while priests bring decent CDs for both specs and paladins literally have more CDs than healing spells.

    Druids might even have their spot unchanged on 25s since you can bring one of each healer if you want, but I'm curious to see how a shaman/druid comp will work on 10-mans.

    And I doubt we'll see drastic changes before 4.3 hits. They wanted to reduce our hps and they did, they didn't mention anything else on that balance blog post.
    You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's a bit depressing, honestly. Have you never heard of ancestral healing? Of spirit link totem? Please, don't talk about topics you don't even remotely understand. All it does is spread misinformation and dilute the conversation with absolute nonsense. Of course shamans bring a lot more than just HPS. Every single one of their spell crits reduces the damage the player takes. That's huge.

    This is the tooltip for ancestral healing: Reduces your target's physical damage taken by 10% for 15 sec after receiving a critical effect from one of your healing spells. On a tank, that's up pretty much all the time.

    Paladins don't have more cooldowns than healing spells btw. Have you ever played a paladin healer?

  9. #9
    It's not that WG is getting nerfed for me, its the glyph change. There aren't really any other options to use in its place, and I imagine rolling without a 3rd major in a pve setup.

  10. #10
    The glyph change is really annoying. I'm probably going to swap it out, but that's a much easier decision for me to make, being in a 10m guild. I imagine it'll take a bit more thought for 25m players.

    The WG nerf is very puzzling. Blizzard spent the entire expac buffing it in order to allow Druids to catch up to the other healers and to make up for their lack of burst healing. Then they decide to undo all those buffs in one go. It's strange. Druids were getting to the point where the higher HPS potential was eyebrow-raising, though.
    Last edited by PHsname; 2011-10-05 at 09:53 PM.

  11. #11
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkforCalde View Post
    Paladins don't have more cooldowns than healing spells btw. Have you ever played a paladin healer?
    Sitting on my pala alt atm and counting cds and I get it to 6 without mana cooldowns

    (HoS, Avenging Wrath, GoAK, Divine Favor, AM, LoH)

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer
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    Lay on Hands is a healing spell, so that's 5.

  13. #13
    No, LoH is a cooldown. By your standard, then, Tranq, Divine Hymn, and even Spirit-Link and Guardian are healing spells, just with long cooldowns. Really?

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer
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    LoH isn't a very good cooldown. I just use it to get the mana return on most fights.

    Tree of Life form is about as good as 3 H Pal cooldowns put together.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkforCalde View Post
    LoH isn't a very good cooldown. I just use it to get the mana return on most fights.

    Tree of Life form is about as good as 3 H Pal cooldowns put together.
    Ya a free heal that heals for ~150k and gives 10% mana back, ya its a terrible cd.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Tybudd33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHsname View Post
    No, LoH is a cooldown. By your standard, then, Tranq, Divine Hymn, and even Spirit-Link and Guardian are healing spells, just with long cooldowns. Really?


    I love when bro-science gets smashed in the face by real logic

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by reverendball View Post
    viable yes, optimal no.

    odds are they will be sat out of world first kills due to lack of raid cooldown

    tranquility is the ONLY saving grace we have left
    And exactly how does the wg nerf make us have less raid CDs then before?

  18. #18
    with the new gear druids will hit the next set of Haste breaks and WG/reg/eff with but freaking retarded also its not a 20% nerf at all because unless theres another fight like domo we dont actually need WG 2 sec sooner most fights that 2nd WG after the big AOE damage is 75%+ overhealing. so instead of spamming WG on CD we might actually have to think about it a bit. but really 6 rej ticks GG.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkforCalde View Post
    You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    *snip*

    Of course shamans bring a lot more than just HPS. Every single one of their spell crits reduces the damage the player takes. That's huge.

    This is the tooltip for ancestral healing: Reduces your target's physical damage taken by 10% for 15 sec after receiving a critical effect from one of your healing spells. On a tank, that's up pretty much all the time.

    Paladins don't have more cooldowns than healing spells btw. Have you ever played a paladin healer?
    Yep, shamans bring such a lot of useful things to a raid that shamans are the first to warm the bench as soon as content gets challenging in Cataclysm. Do I really have to list all the shaman issues? Believe me, a shaman will NEVER steal your raid spot. Never. Never. N.E.V.E.R. We simply can't compete with a druid. Not in a thousand years. Not with a million buffs for us and a million nerfs for you - if both classes should remain playable and halfway balanced in the grander scheme of things.

    Seriously, I think it's you who has no idea what they're talking about.

    Ancestral Healing = Inspiration. A disc priest is a better healer all around than a shaman, brings more CDs and utility and can keep up -10% physical damage taken just as easily. On anybody else but a tank, this buff is absolutely useless. So I think that you're praising it a tad too much with your wording of "every single one of their crits reduces damage taken!" If only that were as good as you're making it sound on paper. And I'm leaving aside the issue with many bosses doing a lot of magic-based attacks that Inspiration will do nothing for.

    Spirit Link is btw extremely useless when a raid is spread out, as is practically ALL the healing a shaman can do. Healing Rain isn't large enough for that kind of encounter, and chain heal's jump range makes effective raid-healing a gamble. So unless you're assigned to "Seriss, you'll take care of the melees because that's all you can do effectively anyway - btw, your class sucks and you're only here because we have no other healing class on the stand-by list", you're entirely out of options. And since I don't have a totemic trap launcher, I can use my spirit link totem as a toothpick most of the time.

    Sorry, but druids really have no reason at all to complain. Our druid gets praises upon praises for his high hps, and is never ever benched. And that won't change. Because if he loses 3k potential hps, he'll still be way ahead of the holy paladin and the disc priest who in turn will be ahead of any of our by now totally depressed and dutifully bench-warming shaman healers who only get to raid because our healing roster has diminished extremely badly (would you be motivated when the amount of healers in a heroic raid is rendered an utter and complete minimum, effectively only barely allowing half of your roster to participate? It's not surprising that so many people quit). Of course, since my guild has now downed Ragnaros on 10 man instead of our usual unsuccessful 25-man tries (if a raid took place at all, that is... for lack of attendance by various key classes), I have little faith that shamans will get their kill and title any time soon. I even suspect that alts will be preferred over mains when it comes to the healer setup. An alt druid is still more valuable than a main shaman. I firmly believe that alt druids, alt priests and alt holypaladins will rather find a spot on a 10-man heroic Ragnaros re-kill than a shaman. For the simple reason that it's simply less of a hassle. At least for the next month or two. And eventually someone will pity the darkblue guys that always sit in group 6 and try to get them into the line-up. It will be painful, it will involve a lot of flaming and bitching about why you can't do this and that as well as this and that other class and why it doesn't work out that well and where the heck did you blow all your mana. And when he finally keels over and dies, you'll only feel relief that you finally did it and can't even be really happy because you know that even though you gave it everything you could, it was just barely enough, and that you were basically carried the last few steps.

    I've been playing my shaman long enough to have seen very similar situations all throughout WotLK already. It's basically where shaman is constantly at when raids reach the vicinity of a challenging endboss of a tier.

    So I can't even whine when I'm benched, because sadly enough, I understand that I cannot heal as well as a druid, mitigate as well as a disc priest or last as long as a paladin.

    Shamans don't need cheering up by a druid who doesn't seem to know much about how a shaman integrates into a raid and tries to make shaman seem so much better than they are only so they get sympathy for getting nerfed. For as insignificant as my opinion on this matter is: I don't want to see you nerfed. Seriously. I don't want to see anybody getting nerfed. It just makes things harder for my raid when a class gets nerfed. The last thing I want is for a raid to have a harder time only because someone cried "Nerf this!!!" I would rather be thrown a few crumbs, a few minuscule tiny quality of life adjustments, so I'm not totally overshadowed by the popularity of the holy trinity that is holy paladin, disc priest and resto druid.

    Now, this post was definitely longer than the short correction that I actually wanted to write in order to correct that nonsense about shaman is a danger to druid raidspots because of all the stuff they bring to a raid.

    This is from a shaman to a druid: You'll always have a raid spot because you bring such a lot of utility, longevity and mobility to a raid. You are without competition. Not even a buffed holy priest will be able to touch you. Don't be scared. You'll not be walking in shaman's horseshoes anytime soon.
    Last edited by Seriss; 2011-10-06 at 11:04 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    This is from a shaman to a druid: You'll always have a raid spot because you bring such a lot of utility, longevity and mobility to a raid. You are without competition. Not even a buffed holy priest will be able to touch you. Don't be scared. You'll not be walking in shaman's horseshoes anytime soon.
    I'm just going to answer to that part.

    Were you there in t11? Because that nerf is pretty much making resto druids go back to their t11 status, which was to be benched on every fight that required even a little bit of burst healing (aoe or single target). And at the same time, every other healing class/spec is getting buffed.

    Now sure, wg should be nerfed a bit, and it's too easy to use for the healing it does. But then they should make it harder to use, or make it have some synergy with other spells so that, if you just smash your wg button on cd you won't get the full effect.

    I'm not personally affected by the nerf since I raid as moonkin, but I was resto for most of t11, and it would sadden me to see resto druid go back to this state. Because it really wasn't fun, and trying to quickly heal the raid after some big aoe damage was a nightmare...

    PS: your druid gets praised for his high hps because people in your raid have no clue how healing works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

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