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  1. #1

    what classes are affected by bleed damage?

    was going over raid comp after we changed up the roster a little bit in my 10 man guild and noticed that we are now missing the bleed damage debuff provided by arms warrs/ feral druid/ hunter pets/sub rogues and i was just wondering how much that would impact our raids output
    so what classes are affected by not having this debuff on the boss and by how much does it affect them?

  2. #2
    Feral Druids
    Rogues
    Warriors Arms or Fury, both have deep wounds.
    MM hunter.

    They are the only ones that have bleeds, or are affected by bleeds.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2011-10-03 at 07:44 AM.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Feard View Post
    was going over raid comp after we changed up the roster a little bit in my 10 man guild and noticed that we are now missing the bleed damage debuff provided by arms warrs/ feral druid/ hunter pets/sub rogues and i was just wondering how much that would impact our raids output
    so what classes are affected by not having this debuff on the boss and by how much does it affect them?
    If you have a rogue, Fdruid or dps Warrior it would be smart to get that debuff up :P

  4. #4
    Warriors - Arms have their owns, so that's no worries. Fury does not depend so much on it but I should be a 3-5% dps increase
    Ferals - have their own, dps depends on it
    Rogues - damage on rapture goes up, somewhere about 3% dps increase perhaps?
    MM hunters - Piercing shot (30% of crits damage over time) 5% ish dps increase I would guess-
    Last edited by eErike; 2011-10-03 at 07:46 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    Feral Druids
    Rogues
    Warriors Arms or Fury, both have deep wounds.
    This + MM Hunters with Piercing Shots.

  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    for rogues it's a very small difference for combat they just don't use rupture if the debuff isn't up, sub can put the debuff up themselves and rupture itself deals little damage for assassination.
    arms warriors put up the debuff themselves, it's a sizable increase for fury.
    feral druids put up the debuff themselves.
    MM hunters benefit too through piercing shots (unless this has been changed?)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    If you have a rogue, Fdruid or dps Warrior it would be smart to get that debuff up :P
    Cant all three put the deuff up themselves?

    Hemo - rogue
    and whatever the other two have...
    so if they have the classes they should have the debuff no? o.O

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
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  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeirAdish View Post
    Hemo - rogue
    Only sub rogues have hemo

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Rixis's Avatar
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    arms warriors can with trauma, not furies

    ferals can too with mangle, assassin and wombat rogues can't

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    Only sub rogues have hemo
    Crap, I forgot that...
    which is really bad since I'm leveling a sub rogue... -.-

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by KeirAdish View Post
    Cant all three put the deuff up themselves?

    Hemo - rogue
    and whatever the other two have...
    so if they have the classes they should have the debuff no? o.O
    xcept that rogues doesnt play sub, and warriors are mostly fury, and hunters will not use a pet with bleed debuff as it's dps loss.

    having feral tank/dps or arms warrior is most optional but bleeds arnt really big deal in 10m. The only class that dps is really affected by bleeds is feral and arms warrior. and they both have it

  12. #12
    Assassination rogues dont really care for it either... rupture does insanely low damage, the only reason they use it is for venemous wounds and the extra energy. Pretty much any spec that needs it has its own bleed debuff, except fury. Even MM hunters have it with a hyena.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


    My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

  13. #13
    It matters a lot for classes that use bleeds. So it looks like the only one(s) who can't apply it themselves are fury warriors, non-sub rogues and hunters who have to use a better pet (bleed is 2nd worst). As said, it'll be 5% more dps at best for those who can't apply it themselves.

    *MM -can- apply it through hyena, yes, but I have to use a wolf (5% crit) or ravager (4% phys damage) most of the time, which are a lot more important. The sunder one is even more important, and as I said bleed is last on the extra damage for a hunters petbuff choice, so I wouldn't count on that.

  14. #14
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    I just realized you asked for actual numbers.
    For the classes that do not provide the debuff themselves it's something like this:
    Assassination: <1%
    Combat: ~1%
    MM hunter: ~3%
    Fury Warrior: ~5%

    Very ballparky figures but should be somewhat reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkster View Post
    xcept that rogues doesnt play sub
    Say what?
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ubtlety_Rogue/


    Sub is on par with/better than Assassination on most FL fight.
    Last edited by Lohe; 2011-10-03 at 07:56 AM.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral WaitingforSWTOR's Avatar
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    shortest thread ever

    <Infracted>
    Last edited by Aciaedius; 2011-10-03 at 08:27 AM.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkster View Post
    xcept that rogues doesnt play sub, and warriors are mostly fury, and hunters will not use a pet with bleed debuff as it's dps loss.
    Hyena's are ferocity pets.... only dps loss if they need another buff/debuff, but then that goes to a whole different discussion :P
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


    My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

  17. #17
    I recall it boosts dps for bears and prot warriors (with deep wounds). Not as much as if it was true dps, but it's still a boost nevertheless.

  18. #18
    Classes that can provide the bleed damage buff:

    Sub Rogues
    Arms Warriors
    Feral Druids (DPS or tank, doesn't matter)
    Hunters with the correct pet

    Classes that benefit from the buff:

    Rogues
    Warriors
    Feral Druids
    MM Hunters

    So USUALLY (not always), if a class needs the bleed damage buff they should bring it themselves. Might not be the case however, so it's worth keeping an eye on. Ferals are probably your best bet for bringing the buff, since they do excellent DPS and can also tank. A Hunter may be able to provide it, depending on whether they need to bring a better buff or not (str/agi buff, 5% crit, those sorts of things). It's unlikely that the Rogue will provide it since Subtlety is apparently a super difficult DPS spec and it does less DPS than other specs anyway, so unless they really like the spec they probably won't use it. Warriors... I could be wrong, but apparently Arms isn't do as well as Fury, so chances are they won't bring the buff. It's probably more likely than a Rogue bringing it tho.

    So in other words, in order of who's most likely to bring the buff, most to least:

    Feral Druids
    Hunters
    Warriors
    Rogues

    One last thing... Even though Ferals can bring it (and will always have it no matter what spec), if they're DPS then they'd rather not bother with putting up the debuff. It's linked to Mangle, which does less DPS than Shred. If they can be Shredding instead of Mangling they'll see a DPS increase, provided someone else is providing the debuff. So your Ferals will thank you if you can find someone else to provide the debuff (without losing raid DPS). But if you can't, no biggie. Best solution is to use a Feral tank, as they WILL be putting up the debuff 100% of the time. Mangle for bears is super good threat, yo.
    Last edited by Kisho; 2011-10-03 at 07:57 AM.

  19. #19
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    It's unlikely that the Rogue will provide it since Subtlety is apparently a super difficult DPS spec and it does less DPS than other specs anyway
    It does less than combat, it does more than assassination. (looking at actual FL fights, not theory)

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Vynistra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    assassin and wombat rogues can't
    I know nothing of these classes or what bleeds do (aside from kill me in PVP) but...

    Wombat Rogues
    *giggle*

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