Tanking, healing, and DPS are all just as hard.

[Sesshou]

True but not for casters.
The only DPS they do IS casting spells, sure they can spam one spell, but that amount of dps would recieve a kick before you reach the first boss.

Uh, I'm sorry but thats entirely false. I would be willing to bet that our top dps mage spamming nothing but fireball beats the majority of dps you get que'd into randoms with (meaning you don't join together as a group). You can't make an absolute statement like that. Depending on other things, you can in fact perform well enough using the 1 button that not only isn't it a problem, but you are out performing people using more than 1 button.

[Crashdummy]

This is so not true. For most dps, their priority lists contain at least 10-15 steps of logical judgements, whereas tanks, if not having a rotation (bear), most likely only have 4 or 5 steps. And tbh, tanking is even easier als dps'ing because you're less punished for an empty gcd or not mashing the keys hard enough.

10-15 logical judgements? I disagree with you on this one, they have, besides the common things that all roles has to do like getting out of fire and such, to know which target to kill and their rotation.

[K1LLLTH3N00B]

Its not the tanking or healing that is hard.

Its dealing with dps.

QFT.

But seriously, DPSing requires no real awareness. You only have to worry about yourself. Tanks only have to worry about managing CDs and the other tanks' stacks, etc. Healers have the roughest route. We have to know when people are about to take spike damage, what cooldowns to use, look for morons taking avoidable damage, manage mana, cast the right heal at the right time (DPS have a set priority for DPS, it almost never changes), make sure if we use a slow heal it will be cast before the target takes fatal damage, etc. Healing > Tanking > DPSing. I've done all three, I've raid-led as all three, and Healing is the hardest.

[yjmark]

I think all 3 roles present their own and unique challenges. It's difficult to say if one is harder than the other because they are so different, and each encoutner weighs heavier on one than the other. Apples to oranges to pears. They can't really be compared objectively.

[Varyk]

Nearly eveything you have said is opinion based. Just because you think hitting a few buttons in a order every 5 seconds is as difficult as keeping everyone in a group alive or keeping agro on a boss and avoiding damage and performing maneuvers to counter boss abilities does not make it true.

so...you're saying what he said was opinion based and you said:

dpsing is "hitting a button every 5 seconds" and tanking/healing is "keeping everyone in the group alive and/or keeping aggro on a boss and avoiding damage and performing maneuvers to counter boss abilities"

LOLOLOLOL.

As a good dps, you probably hit more buttons than any other role. I'm not saying this is difficult, but it's not even close to what you're suggesting. Mediocrity will always be easy, no matter what role you're performing. If playing well was so easy, there would be more than 500k people experiencing end game progression and the rest of the mindless sheep (such as yourself) arguing about semantics on forums while queued for your last random to finally get your 2 piece.

[Sesshou]

QFT.

But seriously, DPSing requires no real awareness. You only have to worry about yourself. Tanks only have to worry about managing CDs and the other tanks' stacks, etc.

Not gonna disagree with the healer part, but I do disagree with the things you mention tanks must do (implying dps don't need to). Any dps that doesn't manage cd's (including defensive ones, as pretty much everyone has something) is second rate. There are plenty of fights where dps need to manage some kind of stacking thing and switch off (baleroc and domo come to mind). Sure it probably is that tanks deal with that specific kind of mechanic more, but dps do deal with it so you can't say its not required for dps. There certainly are some things tanks do that dps don't need to, but you didn't mention any.

Edit: Also the "no real awareness" part... anyone in your raid that doesn't know where all the "fire" is or is about to spawn, where the adds are about to come from, etc regardless of their role isn't doing a "good" job. That is something everyone in the raid needs to be keeping track of in order to do any role properly. That line seems to want to say "its more acceptable for dps to slack off and get hit by crap" but thats already assuming a crap level of play and therefore is irrelevant to the OP's post.

[Deleted]

Its not the tanking or healing that is hard.

Its dealing with dps.

I have to quote this since it's so true. I'm a healer myself and all the toons I've played on highest levels have been main specced healers. It's easy to see if you don't have DPS who are aware of stuff since it makes your job a hell-of-a-lot harder. If you can't do something simple like move from fire/poison puddles/ice on the floor you're not paying attention (e.g. The fellows at Throne of the Tides who toss poison pools under players. A whole lot of people don't move from the,). Same thing if you don't move when a boss is doing, let's say, a breath (e.g. the first boss in ZG comes to mind. A lot of melee DPS just stand there when the boss spews poison at them.) or some other special move. Or when you're not dealing with other mechanics that require some attention from DPS (e.g. the white bird that picks up people during the first boss in ZA. Some DPS ignore the bird completely and I've even seen tanks coming after it because of that).

I can just basically talk from a healer PoV though I have tried DPSing and tanking as well. To me DPS was the easiest by far, especially if I had "backup" covering any mistakes I made. After that I found tanking to be harder but healing has been hardest by far. You can't take your eyes off of people for even a few seconds or someone will get their fingers or butts hurt because they can't be bothered to see where they're standing or what they're doing. You always have to be at least a step ahead of everyone else so you'll know who to heal next.

EDIT: And the "bad" people I'm talking about are merely people I meet in PuGs now and then or trials who have just started raiding. From what I see in tactics the DPS usually have most stuff to be aware of. A good DPS who's aware of their stuff and things around them is a valuable thing just as much as a skilled tank or a skilled healer. They make my job easier too!

[Serrick6066]

I find my rogue far easier than tanking on my warrior, never healed aside from low level dungeons so I cant comment on that. It could just be the fact Ive played my rogue for almost 5 years now.

[Seegtease]

I gave an example. No need to take thing sso literally. From what I can see you shut down other peoples opinions to enforce your own. There is no point arguing since you will only listen to yourself. Why make a thread if you are not going to listen to anyone and stick to your own point of view....

So this is how a debate works in your head: OP makes a post, someone else makes a counter post, and if OP doesn't agree then he's just being obstinate? Debate is all about countering other ideas with your own. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm not listening.

People have made some good points in this thread, and good to see no hostilities around yet.

This is so not true. For most dps, their priority lists contain at least 10-15 steps of logical judgements, whereas tanks, if not having a rotation (bear), most likely only have 4 or 5 steps. And tbh, tanking is even easier als dps'ing because you're less punished for an empty gcd or not mashing the keys hard enough.

I like this, and it's how I feel. As most DPS, I have to constantly think "if X is procced, use ability. Otherwise, use Y unless Z is up and A is up" and so on. You only use certain things under certain circumstances, provided certain other cooldowns aren't up. And if you mess up on any of those complex things, you get hit hard. Like at elitist jerks, check out the assassination guide. It tells you exactly how much damage you will lose if you mess up on any number of things (energy capped for x seconds, mutilate over CP cap, etc). You get hit hard.

As a tank, if you miss a GCD or just don't use anything for a few seconds, it's probably not the end of the world (unless it's the very start of the fight). In all likelihood, you'll still have aggro if you make even several mistakes.

I have played all 3 roles. You cant compare healing/tanking to dps. If you make a mistake as a healer/tank it can easily lead to a wipe. If a tank dies and it was clearly his fault for standing in x, not moving, not having the right defensive buff up, etc. the blame is still quickly placed on the healer. If you make a mistake in your dps rotation it will hurt your dps a little but it probably wont cause a wipe. I still easily pull 20-25k dps in heroics on bosses while watching tv with ~360 gear but when I tank or heal I actually have to watch what I'm doing to some extent. There's significantly less responsibility placed on dps unless they have to interrupt something and even then so many people can interrupt these days including some healers if needed so that its usually not an issue.

That's the problem - you're saying because the penalty for failure is higher that it's more difficult. But I disagree. What matters is how hard it is to make a big mistake. It's a lot easier to make a big mistake as DPS than it is as a tank. And healing really depends on the quality of the rest of the party, it can be less or more forgiving. But honestly, it's not too tough to keep tabs on health.

My point is not about what has worse consequence, but which role is more likely to have to make the errors to begin with.

You say that there's a higher minimum threshold of competence for healers and tanks over DPS...that's already a fundamental disparity in their respective difficulties. I'm afraid you're wrong.

No, because difficulty would refer to how hard it is to maintain that threshold, not where it's located. Just because they have to maintain more doesn't mean it's more difficult, it just means that bad players won't be completing dungeons as tank or heals. But for a mediocre/good player, all three roles should be pretty close in difficulty as long as you're trying your best.

10-15 logical judgements? I disagree with you on this one, they have, besides the common things that all roles has to do like getting out of fire and such, to know which target to kill and their rotation.

I disagree. Check out elitist jerks guide for ret paladin. In addition to the 8 moves just listed in priority, you have several other conditions added to those. Then you have the interrupting, positioning (side or rear), and avoiding damage. Prot can literally just spam a few moves (whichever are up), use the shield proc, spend holy power, and pop a few cooldowns if needed. You'll hold aggro just fine.

I find ret to be insanely more taxing to perform good DPS than to hold aggro and mitigate some damage as prot.

[Lancer]

Generally if you fuck up and die as a tank chances are the raid is going to wipe.

[insmek]

The thing is, your statement cannot be true. If that was true, then the inverse should be true as well: "Tanking, healing, and DPS are all just as easy." That's not the case, however. At the lowest level, as you state, DPS is significantly easier than either of the other two roles. Tanking and healing aren't necessarily difficult, but there's much more that's needed out of the player to perform even the most basic functions of those roles than there is for DPS.

[dexx]

Are we talking 5mans? If so, tank is usually expected to lead. Thats a responsibility DPS doesnt have. If DPS die or slack off the run usually goes ok. If tank or heals slack off and die, its usually a wipe. This is the whole reason why there are many more people wanting to play dps rather than tank/heal. They want tetris.

[Seegtease]

The thing is, your statement cannot be true. If that was true, then the inverse should be true as well: "Tanking, healing, and DPS are all just as easy." That's not the case, however. At the lowest level, as you state, DPS is significantly easier than either of the other two roles. Tanking and healing aren't necessarily difficult, but there's much more that's needed out of the player to perform even the most basic functions of those roles than there is for DPS.

It depends on how you define DPS. If somebody goes into a Zandalari doing 1k dps, do you think they are performing the basic roles of DPS?

[Peyj]

Lol. I love threads like this one. I have toons that play all three roles. Overall in my opinion, Healing is hardest, then tanking then dps.

In your opinion, exactly. Everyone will feel a different role is more difficult.

Healing requires judgement, but the level of difficulty in healing is almost entirely dependent on the raid around you. Are people standing in fire? Do you have to snap dispel the lava wave DoT because people are bad? Are your other healers as on top of healing as you are? Those things can make healing either the easiest spot in the raid or the hardest.

This is spot on for many, many encounters. Also impacts the entire raid in the same way.

The hardest part about being a tank, is dealing with self-righteous DPS, that still manage to do less DPS than you. As a tank, if you lose 1 mob when tanking a pack of 12, the dps it hits says "HURR FUCKING DURRR LEARN TO AGGRO BAD" and you pretty much just look the other way, yet if you tell a DPS to pick up their DPS, they act as if you just gave their grandmother a dirty sanchez and bitch and moan and be complete asses the rest of the run.

that is the difference between the 2 difficulties.

And one of the most annoying/difficult things about playing DPS (or healer) for that matter, is putting up with arrogant, rude tanks who assume they're champions of the world for tanking. I'm by no means referring to you when I say this, but just pointing out that it's definitely not only tanks who have to put up with horrible attitudes. One of my motivations for tanking on an alt was that I was sick of seeing how blatantly rude tanks were for absolutely no reason.

QFT.

But seriously, DPSing requires no real awareness. You only have to worry about yourself. Tanks only have to worry about managing CDs and the other tanks' stacks, etc. Healers have the roughest route. We have to know when people are about to take spike damage, what cooldowns to use, look for morons taking avoidable damage, manage mana, cast the right heal at the right time (DPS have a set priority for DPS, it almost never changes), make sure if we use a slow heal it will be cast before the target takes fatal damage, etc. Healing > Tanking > DPSing. I've done all three, I've raid-led as all three, and Healing is the hardest.

lol @ the bold part of your post. Completely false for any DPS player who is playing well.
Believe it or not, I'm sure every poster here can dismiss what the roles they consider the easiest have to do as simply as you have for DPS and Tanks, while elaborating the difficulty of the role they agree with being the hardest. Doesn't make any of us right, just means that's our (heavily biased) opinion.

Are we talking 5mans? If so, tank is usually expected to lead. Thats a responsibility DPS doesnt have. If DPS die or slack off the run usually goes ok. If tank or heals slack off and die, its usually a wipe. This is the whole reason why there are many more people wanting to play dps rather than tank/heal. They want tetris.

Tank is usually expected to lead, yes, but I've noticed that in LFD lately that simply doesn't happen. Most Tanks I've gotten haven't even known the basics of a fight from any viewpoint. Last heroic I did on my alt, it was myself and another DPS explaining everything, marking the CC (trust me, it was needed), and so on.

In summary, most people here are confusing the stress felt in a role with the difficulty of a role. You might feel more STRESSED playing one of the three roles, that doesn't mean it's harder. As someone who healed from pre-BC through to the end of Wrath, was healing more stressful? (I also tanked for a Tier during BC.) Quite often, yes. Was it more difficult? No, I'm still playing my character to the best of my ability even now that my character is primarily DPS. I may have felt more pressure and stress playing the healer at times, but I still need to pay the same amount of attention and care. I still have moments of pressure and stress playing DPS. Whether that be due to tight interrupting mechanics, enrage timers, or simply avoiding damage and so on.

There is no answer to what is more difficult. That depends on everything from raid size, to content, to the other players. It is, however, safe to say that anyone playing to the best of their ability and potential is paying just as much attention and care regardless of their role.

[Firecrest]

If you play them to the best of your ability.

DPS is only perceived as less difficult because you can get away with less than your best effort. You can auto-attack, hit a few abilities, and most people won't notice how awful you're doing. Yeah, that's pretty easy. Sometimes you'll get someone who is paying attention to meters and stuff and you'll get kicked.

This is just one reason why DPS is "preceived" as less difficult. DPS also has less to do. Besides paying attention to their rotation and boss mechanics, what else do they have to do? As a Healer or Tank, you have to do that plus pay attention to what everyone else in the entire raid is doing.

[Tanker]

But then you have to debate why when you mark a skull, X, and moon in a group with a mage, and they CC the skull with the ret pally, sheep the X with the mage, and trap the moon with the hunter, then DPS the only unmarked mob, you just have to admit to yourself that DPS are morons. It is not about DPS or pushing numbers. It has come to can you walk between pull X and pull Y and not aggro an entire zone. Walking is the new raid boss. DPS have worked VERY hard to drive off any decent tank and gain that 45 minute Q. Any effort to explain to them why they have a 45 minute Q yields cuss-storms to the tank. They want to play like that. They demand to play like that. And they love their frost PVP geared DK tanks, cause thats all that wants to tank for them. Good day DPS, cause you never work with the tank. Enjoy the Q.

[Bombkirby]

You guys have to stop saying "X isn't hard." Difficulty is 100% subjective. The right way to go about this is to think of which role requires more responsibility, awareness, and etc. So which role requires more of those things? Which role is more demanding? You be the judge!

[Deleted]

It depends on the encounter.

Generally, tanking is the easiest, followed by healing, and dpsing is the hardest task.

[Morgomir]

a good DPS is hard to find these days it seems
apparently using a self heal is unheard of from what you guys have experienced
am i seriously the only person who will run over and bandage the healer if they are hurting or help other people at the price of my DPS? i stun mobs if they are stunnable to reduce incoming damage i will cc loose mobs or adds i do pay attention to what other people are doing as that is a requirement for any half decent raider

[Tanker]

a good DPS is hard to find these days it seems
apparently using a self heal is unheard of from what you guys have experienced
am i seriously the only person who will run over and bandage the healer if they are hurting or help other people at the price of my DPS? i stun mobs if they are stunnable to reduce incoming damage i will cc loose mobs or adds i do pay attention to what other people are doing as that is a requirement for any half decent raider

Yes, yes you are very right. The reason you get lumped into fail is that you are outnumbered by 95% with people that cant help but facepull the boss while healer has typed "afk pls" or is at 20% mana. They earn the rank of baddie, over and over again, and they diminish you as a player. They diminish the entire game. When other DPS start to rag on poor DPS instead of gang supporting them, it might change. When I am 75% thru a dungeon and link recount interrupts, and I am at 100% and they are 0, do I see DPS say sorry, I will try harder? No, I get shut up meatshield and pull. Any effort to talk to them reasonably yields a kick. When players like you start to ride them, and healers stop healing them, it might change. Until then, healers will have to heal them thru fire, tanks will have to pickup the 3 addded groups, or do what I do: quit party and leave them to wipe.

Do you think they ever figure out that doing these things ensures they have crap tanks, long Qs, and horrible runs?