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  1. #1
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Advanced Classes Mandatory?

    From the looks of things, you are required to choose an advanced class. But it seems like some people discuss their future toons as if they are not choosing an advanced class. So is it mandatory? Or is there essentially going to be 24 playable classes?

  2. #2
    It's mandatory when you hit level 10.

    24 classes? Technically there will be 16 classes, but they are mirrors, so really, it's only 8 unique classes.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
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  3. #3
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    At level 10, you can choose an advanced class. Without choosing an advance class, you can't spend skill points (think talents). You also are very limited on what abilities you'd learn. I'm also not sure if the storyline would let you get away with not picking one. There's essentially no reason to not pick an advanced class.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
    At level 10, you can choose an advanced class. Without choosing an advance class, you can't spend skill points (think talents). You also are very limited on what abilities you'd learn. I'm also not sure if the storyline would let you get away with not picking one. There's essentially no reason to not pick an advanced class.
    They'll most likely not let you progress with the story if you don't pick an AC. Which means you'll be stuck on the lowbie planet until you do. So it'll basically make it mandatory. You might be able to grind to level 15 or something before the mobs stop giving XP, but I don't see the point.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus of Nazareth

  5. #5
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    They'll most likely not let you progress with the story if you don't pick an AC. Which means you'll be stuck on the lowbie planet until you do. So it'll basically make it mandatory. You might be able to grind to level 15 or something before the mobs stop giving XP, but I don't see the point.
    Yeah, I hadn't tried to not pick one, since the thought never came to me. I also don't remember if it was part of the main class story quests or a side quest. I'd probably call that specific of information NDA-breaking anyway.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    From the looks of things, you are required to choose an advanced class. But it seems like some people discuss their future toons as if they are not choosing an advanced class. So is it mandatory? Or is there essentially going to be 24 playable classes?
    That is because people don't research the game enough so they don't know very much about it, choosing an AC is required I would assume.

  7. #7
    It's not required to choose an AC to advance the story. I actually ran into someone on a planet who was 18 and had not chosen an AC. The only thing not choosing an AC does is restrict what abilities you learn and not being able to spend talent points.

  8. #8
    not choosing advance class would be like not choosing spec in WOW: time consuming and boring
    Thanks a bunch for the Signature, Cthulhu Ftagn.

  9. #9
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadow View Post
    not choosing advance class would be like not choosing spec in WOW: time consuming and boring
    It wasnt a question of "do I want to gimp my character". I was wondering if the starting classes are essentially their own class with its own trees and skills equal to AC's.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    It wasnt a question of "do I want to gimp my character". I was wondering if the starting classes are essentially their own class with its own trees and skills equal to AC's.
    Oh, in that case, no they are not their own class. It's just what you are before you pick an AC. Once you hit level 10 then the ACs are your class. Every character gets some abilities from being a specific class and then more abilities from their AC, and then even more from their talents. If you don't pick an AC you won't be able to pick talents either so you will be stuck with just the abilities that all characters of that class share.
    To compare it to wow, it is like saying your class is a caster, your advanced class is warlock, and your talent tree is affliction. As a caster you get to use a wand, then when you pick warlock you get to use shadowbolt, then when you pick affliction you get UA.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord Adeodatus's Avatar
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    This thought hadn't even occured to me, and it seems like it would just be a trial in self punishment. Go for an advanced class!
    "I'll tell you something, my Tenchi, you know the carnival comes and goes. But if you wait for a while, it'll always come back to you, Tenchi."~Ryoko TENCHIxRYOKO FTW!

    "The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force.
    The Force is the blade of the heart. All are intertwined. The crystal, the blade, the Jedi. You are one.

  12. #12
    I now desire a level 50 consular with no AC.

    I shall make it happen.

  13. #13
    I also wish that you couldnt change AC once picked, i dont care how expensive its gonna be i dont want the ability to switch AC. Its stupid, like changing classes in WoW would be. People saying that the classes that couldnt perform multiple roles would be less played than other classes...how so? is there a lack of hunters/rogues/warlocks in WoW? not at all, its a bad decision by BW to let this happen.

    Im all for spec changes within a AC mind but im sure if you pick a AC that can only DPS then its reasonable to assume that that is what the player wants to do!

  14. #14
    When you pick your advanced class, you're not Jedi Knight(Guardian) or Trooper(Commando); You're Jedi Guardian or Commando. The Class is what defines your character's design and basic personality. The Advanced class dictates your role in combat and fighting style.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Dalagrath's Avatar
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    At level 10 you select an advanced class. You are VERY limited if you don't.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    When you pick your advanced class, you're not Jedi Knight(Guardian) or Trooper(Commando); You're Jedi Guardian or Commando. The Class is what defines your character's design and basic personality. The Advanced class dictates your role in combat and fighting style.
    Yep, the only thing that would represent just your starting class would be the shared talent tree. And I think it's a forced decision at lvl10. You make a choice one way or the other. You can change it later(with a cost), but you can't refrain or unmake it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    When you pick your advanced class, you're not Jedi Knight(Guardian) or Trooper(Commando); You're Jedi Guardian or Commando. The Class is what defines your character's design and basic personality. The Advanced class dictates your role in combat and fighting style.
    That's 100% correct. The main class gives you a path that leads to a specific road you choose. (DnD example) It's like being a rogue and then decide if you gonna be an assassin or a bard. The classes are 8 for each faction. Advance Classes are mandatory

  18. #18
    Georg had a really good post on their design philosophy and the break down of what Class, AC, and roles mean in TOR yesterday:
    http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...71#edit9672671
    General Discussion -> Class Design Philosophy (Georg re-post)

    Hey guys,

    Because the Dev Tracker is a bit wonky again and doesn't show my post, and because translating my English post to German and then back to English isn't producing the most reliable results (Oh god, they did what???), here's the Class Design Philosophy post again, in original source:

    "Just to chime in about our class design philosophy here. We've explained this a number of times already during development, but now that we've been running large scale testing for a while and have solidified a lot of the design, I think it's time to explain what we're doing and why.

    In regards to class roles, we do things differently than some other games which people might be used to. That creates some anxiety and questions, so let me explain.

    Of Class, Advanced Class, Roles.

    Unlike other games where you pick a class and that defines your role, class in Star Wars: The Old Republic defines your overall story, your possible roles and your visual style / gameplay style (e.g. Force user vs. Tech user).

    Due to the nature of the Advanced Class system, every character starts out in a DPS role at the start of the game, and they're about equally good at it.

    By the time you reach level 10, you get to make your choice for Advanced Class, which narrows down which roles you could play, and yes, some Advanced Classes (Gunslinger / Sniper / Marauder / Sentinel) only have damage type roles available, while other Advanced Classes have access to two roles (e.g damage or healing).

    What actually defines your role in our game, in terms of traditional MMO gaming, is how you distribute points in your skill trees. Specialize in the 'Combat Medic' tree and become a healer, specialize in the 'Vengeance tree' and become a DPS character.

    By spending that first skill point at level 10, you start developing your character into whatever role you want them to play in the long term. Since it's your skill choices that define your role, it is a gradual process. You don't become a healer at level 10 or 11, you're growing into becoming a healer over many levels.

    Our content is designed around that. The first Flashpoint assumes the group has only DPS roles. Even if you bring a healer, he'll have only a single heal available at that level as he has just begun his journey into his role, so there isn't too much of a spread in balance.

    Over time, the game becomes more firm in the roles it requires for content like Flashpoints, but additional tools like companions still make it more flexible than many other MMOs in regards to what group mix can run group content.

    That progression is quite different from how your characters work in other games, and we've certainly seen our share of people being surprised by it in testing ("I just took the Sage Advanced Class, but I don't feel like I'm a great healer").

    Hybrids

    Ultimately we don't do hybrid roles. You can do them (by mixing different skill trees), but by design, all our classes are meant to be fully capable in the roles they fill. The 'hybrid' tax would be the fact that you won't be able to get the top tier talents in one skill tree if you spread yourself too thin into others.

    At high level, all roles have the same capabilities, in our game all healers are 'main healers' provided they are specced accordingly, etc.

    Common Questions

    So, what's the point of playing an AC that has only DPS options available?

    That is a question you have to answer for yourself.

    In a traditional fantasy MMO, if you play a thief or a wizard, you're locked to one role as well, so it's the added role flexibility that SWTOR brings to the table that is giving you second thoughts. I would look at it like this:

    If you really like the flexibility of non DPS roles and feel comfortable with taking on other roles, you might want to play an AC that has that option available.

    If you know you only enjoy DPS roles in a game (and based on our research, a sizable faction of players falls under that umbrella), a DPS only AC means you will get a three different styles of dps gameplay to select from.

    So why do we do this? Why not go for a 'this Advanced Class only can DPS and therefore they are the best at it' approach?

    Because we want people to pick the class they want to play and reduce the likelihood of them getting told 'sorry, can't participate in this group because we want only the best DPS in game - that is a Gunslinger'.
    Likewise, we don't want the fact that a specific tank or healer AC is not available at a time from becoming a stopping point for getting on with your group content.

    The truth is, not everyone is comfortable playing every role and shouldn't be expected to.

    Players, as they get more familiar with the game, will no doubt find interesting ways of proving the superiority of a specific specialization in a specific situation, that's expected. With different gameplay styles and utility come different strength and weaknesses.

    Should things outside our comfort zone be discovered in testing or after launch (e.g. Operations ending up requiring that one specific healer AC because they are deemed 'the absolute best and a must'), we will adjust the game accordingly. We want player skill to be deciding factor in your choices, not which class they picked hundreds of hours ago. That's pretty standard for MMOs.

    TL;DR

    Q: 'Why would I play a DPS only Advanced Class if I can play an Advanced Class that can respec to fill other roles?'
    A: If that is your main concern, you shouldn't play that Advanced Class, because you are going to be unhappy about the fact that you cannot switch roles.

    Q: Since I can only fill a DPS role, I should do the absolute best damage in the game!
    A: Not in SWTOR. We give you get more variety in your DPS gameplay. We maintain balance between all ACs that can fill a role.

    Q: What ever happened to being 5% better thing for pure DPS classes?
    A: Given class utility and other considerations of why you might want to have someone in your group, 5% is not considered 'significant' for the purpose of this conversation.

    I hope this clears things up a bit. I'm sure there'll be plenty of different and, of course, dissenting opinions on this topic, but at least everyone will be on the same page as what our design goals are in this situation and how we approach balancing classes."

  19. #19
    I always assumed that Advanced Classes = Talent Trees. To not pick one would just be silly.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    I always assumed that Advanced Classes = Talent Trees. To not pick one would just be silly.
    Naw, the advanced classes have the talent trees.

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