Ragnaros 10man HC help

[Novodk]

We are slowly working on Ragnaros 10 man heroic, i tbh don't know if we can improve somewhere.

Our setup is:

Feral Tank
Warrior Tank

Disc Healer
Pala Healer

Arcane Mage
Hunter
Boomkin
Shadowpriest
Elemental Shaman (He is not that good geared since he normally heals)
Enhancement Shaman or Frost DK depends on who shows up.

We are struggling to reach p4 with only 1 meteor, can we do somthing to improve our dps?

- dmg stop at 40,6% and wait for the next world in flames to pop up , then during the world in flames push ragnaros under 40% (he will finnish his world in flames before he starts the transition), by using this strategy we managed to push rag to 36% before he submerged.
- let your healers kick the 1 Meteor
- Tanks can use the firelands reputation trinkets (mastery + agi/str use) or let them wear as much dps gear as possible (our tanks did around 22k dps in p3)
- healing priests can go disc for extra dps in p3 (our disc. priest did about 10k dps + power infusion)
- as already stated demonology warlocks just rock in p3 (trinkets of choice: moonwell chalice + sorrowsong/necromantik focus/dmc)

We are doing that but it's like it's not enough every time, is it really THAT hard to push it? Or are we making some obvious mistakes?

Here are our logs from tonights raid, and as you can see it only gets worse and worse, but thats just our raiders I'm afraid :S
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zgvczhulnh8jvh9j/

Hope someone can give some advices

[munkeymagic]

We only recently got H Rags (last night), and for a while we were having the exact same problem. But once we changed a few things we started getting it every time.

-Make sure every1 pots there
-Get your feral druid to go cat for the whole of phase 3, with the warrior tanking and extra heals being put on him. (we found with this strat it was way too hard for a pally to hit meteors and nuke heals on the solo tank, so we had a dps do that sides meteor) Just paid proper attention to your logs looks like this is already happening
-Warlocks... just simpy if you can get a demo lock it will help amazingly
-Make sure your doing the final transition correctly IE keeping one son of flame up and killing the lava scions and the killing the son of flame just as transition phase ends.
-Gear will help alot here aswell, even if that means a couple more weeks till the kill.

And if all this fails, its not like you cant do it with 2 meteors. Maybe it might be worth it just practicing with 2 meteors for the mean time.

Here are some of your phase 3 dps pushs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=420&e=533
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2824&e=2908
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9012&e=9102

And heres our kill attempt phase 3 log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3858&e=3938

[Deleted]

Make sure you kill the last remaining Son of Flame as late as possible - for us that seemed to be the deciding factor as to whether we would get 1 or 2 meteors.

[Deleted]

Tips:
-Get to the middle doing the engulfing flames,
-Use <2min cds (if you think it will be beneficial, I usually PI our mage) right before he hits 40%. You have 10 seconds to burn before he goes away and u have to kill the sons of flames.
-Make sure one sons of flames is kept alive as long as possible.
-Kill the scions as quickly as possible (cleaving them down in p3 takes forever) and you'll have people running around with the debuff = suck dps
-Let your priest nuke full time, also consider telling your paladin to nuke a bit as the healing is VERY low.
-Pray for good engulfing, if your dps is weak, he will not cast the 2nd meteor if he is doing engulfing.

Even if you do not make the 1 meteor strat you should keep going. It has been killed with 2 before, so it is very doable, it's just a bit harder and more confusing.

Timing is like this when he hits 40%:
10 seconds of animation, full burn mode.
60 seconds of transition.
96 seconds of p3 before he casts the 2nd meteor.

[Wilderness]

We have our feral tank spend as much time as possible that phase as cat, with our warrior being on the side with the paladin since he's the strongest tank healer (our 2nd healer was a feral).

Your Arcane mage should be doing more damage that phase; full burn phase with CDs/Lust, and then he should burn all the way down again until you hit P4. Yes, that will hurt his dps in P4 but its not important then because he'll be regenning in the transition and movement parts of that phase anyway. And if he's the one doing dreadflame it really doesn't matter since he won't be dps'ing much anyway.

Your SPriest was also pretty low on the couple attempts I looked at for that phase too. I don't know what he can do to improve but he absolutely needs to be higher.

How close are you to getting 1 meteor? Your overall raid dps during that phase is a good bit lower than ours, and we would push 1 meteor with maybe 5 seconds left on the timer on average (good pulls it could be closer to 10, but bad pulls and it was 1/2 secs away or we got 2). Make sure everyone is minimizing their movement during world in flames as much as possible, but other than that I don't know what you need to do to pump out higher dps. Just as an example, here is one our our logs during P3: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=6326&e=6412

One thing that you need to do is make sure you are killing the scions right as the transition ends or within 1 or 2 seconds after. If you are spending time in P3 killing the scions then you will not be able to push it. Make sure you are on the ball getting those sons down and always leave one up so you can kill the scions.

Edit: Missed munkey's post but his raid was at about 250k dps as was ours, which is still 25k dps above your best P3 that I saw, and sometimes 50k+ off. Keep working on maximizing your dps that phase, but at this time you should prepare yourself for getting 2 meteors and learning the fight that way. All the guilds who killed it pre-nerf had to learn it that way, so while that makes P4 more difficult its absolutely doable.

[Jinto]

Not sure the exact number but from my alt raid's logs and the logs here it seems like you need 240k+ to beat the second meteor. You are like 30k off and your tanks are doing pretty good dps already. The good news is that your actual dps number will be higher as you will have higher BL uptime if you push 1 meteor. The bad news is that you are probably still at least 20k off. Your mage can certainly do more. Your spriest can do a LOT more considering that it is the execute phase. The elemental shaman can do at least 30k even in his gear. If you swap the enh for a dk the dk should easily do 35k if his gear is any decent. That will go a long way towards that 20k difference.

[henkish]

Have your resto druid go tree and wrath spam during P3. Nothing should be taking damage anyway except tanks and paladin can handle that alone. Our resto durid does 10k during P3

[Novodk]

Thanks for all your suggestions, i think we are dong things the way we are supposed to, i'm the low dps shadow priest shame on me, but we were so unlucky with meteors and the raid was terrible in setup and performance. We will try to go with boomkin, spriest, frost DK, mage, hunter and elemental or enhance shaman next time. I think that the info on having the mage using all he's mana in p3 will help a lot. So if the RNG gods is on our side with engulfing it will be no problem
1 question about WOL, what do i have to do to see p3 damage only? as the links you guys provided?

---------- Post added 2011-10-04 at 04:27 PM ----------

Have your resto druid go tree and wrath spam during P3. Nothing should be taking damage anyway except tanks and paladin can handle that alone. Our resto durid does 10k during P3

No resto druid m8, he is boomkin

[Tojara]

Let your Warrior tank all of P3 and stick your feral on the opposite side. We single tank P3 so that our Feral contributes pretty much maximum damage during that burn. It works out great because our main tank does amazing damage as vengeance never falls off, and burning wound increases damage the more stacks you get. Meanwhile our Feral does pretty much the same damage as a normal DPS class because Ferals typically aren't far off their optimal cat setup while performing normal tanking duties.

There ARE a lot of tricks to getting 1 meteor but the most important is having a clean transition into P3. Ideally both Scions should be dead, or at the very least one should be at critically low health. Having a Scion require 10-15 seconds more of your DPS completely destroys your goal of 1 meteor.

If going for the 1 meteor burn people need to have their CDs ready to optimize DPS for that 90 second period. Not having critical CDs up during that period is very bad. Essentially if you can consistently get to P3, the only real DPS requirement at the point is that burn from ~36% to 10%. Nothing else matters in the fight because the P4 DPS requirement is very easy as long as you don't mess up breadths.

Sorrowsong is great on some casters as it's pretty much available for the entirety of P3 and a lot of P4.

Healers CAN DPS. Wrath spamming Druids (talented), Exo spamming Paladins (talented), Disc Priests (Shadow Fiend + the regular), Shaman with LB spam (great way to get mana back). Our Resto Shaman for example wears 2 piece elemental for the fight as he finds the chain heal 4 piece rather redundant, this allows him to maintain a Fire Elemental for the entire encounter, and most importantly P3.

Meteor strategy is also key. If you have great timing you can keep that single meteor in the lava bath the entire time. Other guilds will split evenly on the very east and west side of the room, this means the meteor has a high chance of just having huge travel time from one end to the other, which is more DPS. Healers knocking back meteors is the least amount of DPS loss, but also things like DK DG are excellent (no GCD and you can spam it).

GL but like most things it comes down to practice. The true key is optimizing the second intermission though. Nail that and you should be in pretty good shape. Once we got that we beat the second meteor by 8-15 seconds consistently.

[Wilderness]

1 question about WOL, what do i have to do to see p3 damage only? as the links you guys provided?[COLOR="red"]

Pull up a damage report in WoL. You can then left click on the graph and drag it to one side to select a specific area of that report, then right click that area and select "set page to selection".

[Durbi]

I didn't wanna create whole new topic for this question so gonna ask it here

so our alt run is at Ragnaros hc atm, we sorted p1 and transition pretty easily, had some small problems on Seeds but we didn't have one of our main ranged dps then so i don't see problem with them this week, my question is did anyone managed to finish phase 3 with 1 meteor using 3 healers?

i did same math and required dps over 90 secs is 222k raid dps, meaning 44k per dps player, we would also have smite speced priest, ofc 2 tanks and a resto shaman spaming LB during p3

so just wondering if anyone did it with 3 healers? thx

[alemaite]

It's doable with 2-3 meteors, you just really want to get p4 down because once everyone gets it its not that hard. We cleared all of FL in less than 2 hours and 1 shotted rag even though we had only killed him once before on heroic. It's just getting the people organized in p4 thats difficult once everyone is kiting meteors properly, fires are being dealt with and people are walking into breadths properly and a bit of luck hes not that that hard ( i know i know hes been nerfed).

Just make sure people use pots and are doing good dps. EVERYONE needs to pop cooldowns.

[Novodk]

Pull up a damage report in WoL. You can then left click on the graph and drag it to one side to select a specific area of that report, then right click that area and select "set page to selection".

Thanks for the info, is there a way to see when p3 begins and ends?

[Wilderness]

I didn't wanna create whole new topic for this question so gonna ask it here

so our alt run is at Ragnaros hc atm, we sorted p1 and transition pretty easily, had some small problems on Seeds but we didn't have one of our main ranged dps then so i don't see problem with them this week, my question is did anyone managed to finish phase 3 with 1 meteor using 3 healers?

i did same math and required dps over 90 secs is 222k raid dps, meaning 44k per dps player, we would also have smite speced priest, ofc 2 tanks and a resto shaman spaming LB during p3

so just wondering if anyone did it with 3 healers? thx

I highly doubt its been done with 3 healers, not do I really see a benefit to that 3rd healer. Healing isn't that bad for most of the fight, and we rarely ever had any wipes due a tank death but rather to other mechanics. The extra dps is more useful than another healer. Also, I'm not sure your math is right as we were very close to 250k raid dps and were still not pushing it much before the 2nd meteor.

Thanks for the info, is there a way to see when p3 begins and ends?

You can see when the sons die on the log, so you can look at that, or basically lust should be popped right at the start of that phase. When it ends is when everyone's dps dips down to 0.