Avenging Wrath

[Deleted]

hi everyone,
as everyone knows retribution paladins can do competitive damage in pvp when they use the ability named "Avenging Wrath", this is a basilar ability becouse with the appropriate talent (sanctified wrath) allows you to use "hammer of wrath" without the enemy has less than 20% of life untill "Avenging Wrath" is active.Ok this is a burst damage but when the paladins fight against the mage, they can steal it. I think that this is not balanced, because there are classes that the copy(dk) or cancel it and becomes very difficle for the paladin to win the duel. so I suggest you put a talent(perhaps in an already existing) that prevents you to delete or steal "Avenging Wrath". but it can be copied, if it would be stolen just copied.
thanks for the answer and sorry for my bad english.

[Soisoisoi]

I think that this is not balanced, because there are classes that the copy(dk) or cancel it and becomes very difficle for the paladin to win the duel.

1v1 is balanced? Saaywhaaaaat?!


On a more serious note, I think they tried to make it un-dispellable (could of been a mistake, but at one point on the PTR it wasn't dispellable) and it got reverted. Plus, Pallies have enough burst, what they need is some up-time and less RNG. Making HoF un-dispellable again and fix the class is a better option.

[Deleted]

Just remove the talent (so stupidly op anyway) and buff paladin dmg over all.

[Eon Drache]

Avenging Wrath being un-dispellable was a myth as a blue posted and never actually happened on the 4.2 ptr. Some people just wanted to QQ about what didn't exist.

[yswrox]

I love Avenging Wrath in PvE, but in PvP it's just too easily dispelled. One of the key problems of ret in PvP right now...Something definitely needs to be done about it.

[Ascend]

Always seems to work well in ret/rogue 2s teams. I know 2s doesn't mean too much, but the synergy with rogue control and ret burst makes it hard to dispel and heal.

[Deleted]

Just remove the talent (so stupidly op anyway) and buff paladin dmg over all.

Why remove it? if a ret uses it just purge/disarm him...job done, not that overpowered if you look at it that way

[Manstallion]

I hear a lot of people talk about Ret's "burst." I'm struggling to figure out where this supposed burst is. Maybe if a paladin gets lucky and gets an AoW proc off his very first attack, and gets off a quick TV with Avenging Wrath up. But then it just gets dispelled or stolen and that's that. Paladin's are pretty much built around long fights right now, I don't see how they are very bursty unless you are a big boss monster standing still letting them wail on you.

[Ascend]

I hear a lot of people talk about Ret's "burst." I'm struggling to figure out where this supposed burst is. Maybe if a paladin gets lucky and gets an AoW proc off his very first attack, and gets off a quick TV with Avenging Wrath up. But then it just gets dispelled or stolen and that's that. Paladin's are pretty much built around long fights right now, I don't see how they are very bursty unless you are a big boss monster standing still letting them wail on you.

I'm going by what I've seen. Short 2s matches, with ret/rogue teams, the ret normally tops a his rogue partner, and my feral druid partner.

[Doombringer]

I hear a lot of people talk about Ret's "burst." I'm struggling to figure out where this supposed burst is. Maybe if a paladin gets lucky and gets an AoW proc off his very first attack, and gets off a quick TV with Avenging Wrath up. But then it just gets dispelled or stolen and that's that. Paladin's are pretty much built around long fights right now, I don't see how they are very bursty unless you are a big boss monster standing still letting them wail on you.

'Burst' meaning that the stars have to align (as do cooldowns). If you go 3 HoPo and pop AW, GoAK, and a Golemsblood potion, then Zealotry, and go to town with a TV, CS, TV, CS, TV, etc. + HoW (available during AW), you can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

But it's a gimmick, and it is hurting us in PVE. We become DPS all-stars when we pop cooldowns, but at other times in the fight we are 'meh.'

[blazto]

First if a pally lets his wings get stolen, then it's not a game issue. That's a player not knowing how to counter another classes ability. There's too many classes and scenarios to list.

[Manstallion]

'Burst' meaning that the stars have to align (as do cooldowns). If you go 3 HoPo and pop AW, GoAK, and a Golemsblood potion, then Zealotry, and go to town with a TV, CS, TV, CS, TV, etc. + HoW (available during AW), you can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

But it's a gimmick, and it is hurting us in PVE. We become DPS all-stars when we pop cooldowns, but at other times in the fight we are 'meh.'

That's what I mean, lucky procs and perfect scenarios do not mean reliable burst damage. And it absolutely does hurt PvE.

First if a pally lets his wings get stolen, then it's not a game issue. That's a player not knowing how to counter another classes ability. There's too many classes and scenarios to list.

So a paladin just not being able to do any damage because one of the many classes with a dispel was able to astutely pick out the huge glowing wings coming off of him is working as intended? Oh right, that's why I don't PvP.

[blazto]

That's what I mean, lucky procs and perfect scenarios do not mean reliable burst damage. And it absolutely does hurt PvE.



So a paladin just not being able to do any damage because one of the many classes with a dispel was able to astutely pick out the huge glowing wings coming off of him is working as intended? Oh right, that's why I don't PvP.

That's what stuns are for. I know about trinkets. Like I said too many scenarios to list. A smart pally will use wings at the right time to get the most out of it. You might not PVP because you open up with everything and end up with nothing. Think of WoW more along the lines of a chess match than Halo or CoD.

[Malthanis]

First if a pally lets his wings get stolen, then it's not a game issue. That's a player not knowing how to counter another classes ability. There's too many classes and scenarios to list.

It most certainly is a game issue, considering that such a major damage CD can and is negated by minor abilities. This is the exact reason that we can't use Turn Evil on Demonology warlocks that are under the effects of Metamorphosis. Why this same measure of protection isn't extended to paladins is beyond me.

[Manstallion]

That's what stuns are for. I know about trinkets. Like I said too many scenarios to list. A smart pally will use wings at the right time to get the most out of it. You might not PVP because you open up with everything and end up with nothing. Think of WoW more along the lines of a chess match than Halo or CoD.

Let's see.

Hunter: Tranq Shot, 6 sec cooldown.
Mage: Spellsteal, no cooldown.
Priest: Dispel Magic, no cooldown. Mass Dispel, no cooldown.
Shaman: Purge, no cooldown
Warlock: Felhunter Devour Magic, 8 sec cooldown. Doomguard Dispel, no cooldown.

So you mean to tell me I'm supposed to wait until NONE of those abilities can hit me for a stretch of 20-30 seconds to pop wings? Do you understand how insane that is?

[Against the Modern World]

Why remove it? if a ret uses it just purge/disarm him...job done, not that overpowered if you look at it that way

After purge nerf (removes one buff only instead of two) it takes a lot of time to dispel AW, especially if there's a healer like Disc of Resto druid on Ret's side, ever tried to get to AW through several HoTs/shields?

[Volitar]

I do kind of agree that wings being stolen is stupid.

[Deleted]

After purge nerf (removes one buff only instead of two) it takes a lot of time to dispel AW, especially if there's a healer like Disc of Resto druid on Ret's side, ever tried to get to AW through several HoTs/shields?

Indeed. I always end up getting AW when there is 2 seconds left of the buff.

[blazto]

Let's see.

Hunter: Tranq Shot, 6 sec cooldown.
Mage: Spellsteal, no cooldown.
Priest: Dispel Magic, no cooldown. Mass Dispel, no cooldown.
Shaman: Purge, no cooldown
Warlock: Felhunter Devour Magic, 8 sec cooldown. Doomguard Dispel, no cooldown.

So you mean to tell me I'm supposed to wait until NONE of those abilities can hit me for a stretch of 20-30 seconds to pop wings? Do you understand how insane that is?

Never said it was easy or black and white. For every example you gave it's really easy to counter. To say you don't pvp because another class can counter you just shows laziness or skill. There's other major problems with Ret than wings getting dispelled or stolen.

[Deleted]

with a AW being stolen if for example a rogue mage in 2v2 i nuke the mage with guardian and zelorty once he dead i got AW on rogue. If it against 2 classes that cansteal just pop everything stun them after you popped and nuke get as much damage in thats all we can do really. but it is silly that it can get stolen. (i dont pve so i dunno how reti is in pve