Thread: Mob Tagging

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  1. #1

    Mob Tagging

    I understand how dynamic events work, but what about individual mobs/monsters? Last time I heard, there is no "mob tagging" in GW2. Does anyone have a reference or source for that? I've looked a bit but couldn't find any.

    In my mind, getting rid of mob tagging is great, and promotes group-play. It's pretty much common sense. But then why do other games - still coming out in 2011-2012 - still have mob tagging at all? Why don't other games get rid of it? There must be reasons for it, right?

    Opinions?

  2. #2
    Yes, this is correct. I don't know where the source for it is (I lose track of everything nowadays since there is SO much information), but I'm sure somebody else is going to jump on it for you.

    Honestly, there really isn't a logical reason for mob tagging that I can think of. I guess it's to prevent people from attacking a mob that somebody else is fighting once and then just sit back and wait for it to die so they get the experience, but we know that your participation matters in GW2 so that kind of nullifies that.

  3. #3
    same thing as Dynamic events exp will be shared with those that help kill it. Most mobs are linked to dynamic events tho, and killing wild creatures doesnt give as much rewards as killing them for a Dynamic Event. So i dont think many people will be killing wild mobs that are not dynamic event linked.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wynnyelle View Post
    Honestly, there really isn't a logical reason for mob tagging that I can think of. I guess it's to prevent people from attacking a mob that somebody else is fighting once and then just sit back and wait for it to die so they get the experience, but we know that your participation matters in GW2 so that kind of nullifies that.
    I can't imagine why someone would hit a mob I'm attacking, and then sit back and do nothing. Wouldn't it be faster if they actually attacked? What's the benefit of of him doing that, and then just waiting around beside me, for me to kill it? How does that help him at all?

  5. #5
    Deleted
    I believe you need to reach a threshold of around 20% to also be awarded (separate but the same) loot/exp. To the question of why other games still have mob tagging I don't really know an answer tbh. I guess because they didn't think of it or because they don't want to change their (existing) game to dramatically without people asking for it. Perhaps afraid of people abusing the system and 'stealing' 20% from other players all the time for exp. Though that doesn't really matter in GW2.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    I can't imagine why someone would hit a mob I'm attacking, and then sit back and do nothing. Wouldn't it be faster if they actually attacked? What's the benefit of of him doing that, and then just waiting around beside me, for me to kill it? How does that help him at all?
    You need to do a certain amount of damage or help in events in order to get the exp for it. You can't just hit it once and get the rewards. And the more people in events there are, the more workk you gotta do.
    - Guild Wars 2 Characters -
    Senari of the Woad | Riven Lightsbane | Cain the Mystic


  7. #7
    Because no one except ANet is intuitive and original, the same boring mechanics MUST be used in every mmo released for the next billion years, except that's not true because GW2 lol

  8. #8
    Deleted
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loot
    Loot refers to materials, items and equipment which can be taken from the body of an enemy you helped to defeat. It also refers to the act of looting, the taking of items from the body.

    When a body has loot the body remains in the world, rather than disappearing after a short time, and it is marked with an animated sparkle graphic. The player can move their character to the corpse and a prompt will appear to Loot (default key [F]). When the body is looted a window is opened with the loot which can be transferred to the inventory.

    Each character who participates in killing a monster will have the opportunity to loot the body. Each monster has a damage table and a threshold value of damage done to it by the player before it will give full credit for the kill. This value is about 5% to 10% of the monster's health. Each player will have their own loot 'roll' which determines what they get, which doesn't diminish the loot others might get from the body, the one monster might drop the same rare item multiple times. In this way there is no possibility of stealing another player's loot as their drops are only for them and they cannot see or know what has been given to another character.
    Was the only thing I could find about mob-tagging. As long as you help kill it, you will get loot.

    So if someone else attacks an enemy when you aren't there, but you then show up and help to kill that enemy, you will still get loot.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    I believe you need to reach a threshold of around 20% to also be awarded (separate but the same) loot/exp. To the question of why other games still have mob tagging I don't really know an answer tbh. I guess because they didn't think of it or because they don't want to change their (existing) game to dramatically without people asking for it. Perhaps afraid of people abusing the system and 'stealing' 20% from other players all the time for exp. Though that doesn't really matter in GW2.
    But if everyone gets full XP/loot, you can't 'steal' anything from anyone, and you can't grief anyone either. I can understand why old games aren't modified... but there's been brand new games that just came out that still have this mechanic (not naming names ). Has no developer ever sat down and asked themselves "... but why?"

  10. #10
    The only reason I can think of would be to promote solo-leveling in terms of EXP. Without mob tagging (or any other restrictions, such as one node per person), group-leveling is vastly superior to solo-leveling, which is how I feel it should be in a multiplayer game. With mob tagging and everything else, solo-leveling is able to, roughly, equal group-leveling, as you will be able to get nodes faster by yourself, but you will be able to kill mobs faster in a group. Equal rights, etc.


    Of course, I'm probably wrong, but /shrug.

    Slightly off topic, but personally, I think all of these group-promoting aspects ANet is adding to the "Leveling" experience are going to have a larger impact than the Dynamic nature of DE's.

  11. #11
    The original of mob tagging was due to the systems in the earlier MMO. For example I will use Ragnarok Online (the game I played when I was in teenage). In RO, people can hit the mob that another person is fighting. Doing so will make the person who attacked latter shares the experience gained with the other person, like 50/50 exp. With the mobs spawn slowly and give already not so large exp, doing so will make the person who attacked first at disadvantage, because the mob will continue to attack that person, while the other person gain exp without being at risk of death or even using item. This situation was frown upon and the term is used to described the person who would attack mob that is already occupied as jammer or mob stealer.

    Another thing was that drops from mobs can be looted by only a person so the loot might got stolen by the jammer too.

    So tagging when it was introduce was quite a relieve back then because it guarantee that the person who attack first will gain the full experience from the mob and don't have to worry that someone will steal your loot. GW2 system is another step of development of the current system.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Some games don't have mob tagging(i take as an example Lineage2).
    There mobs give xp in proportion to the damage done to the mob and you get quest credit if you last hit the mob which is dumb.
    If you get in a crowded area with a lot of ppl competing for the same mob doing quests can be hell.
    I like the Guild Wars system because it removes the need for mob tagging pretty simple and it promotes large numbers of ppl which is fitting for an MMO.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldril View Post
    The original of mob tagging was due to the systems in the earlier MMO. For example I will use Ragnarok Online (the game I played when I was in teenage). In RO, people can hit the mob that another person is fighting. Doing so will make the person who attacked latter shares the experience gained with the other person, like 50/50 exp. With the mobs spawn slowly and give already not so large exp, doing so will make the person who attacked first at disadvantage, because the mob will continue to attack that person, while the other person gain exp without being at risk of death or even using item. This situation was frown upon and the term is used to described the person who would attack mob that is already occupied as jammer or mob stealer.

    Another thing was that drops from mobs can be looted by only a person so the loot might got stolen by the jammer too.

    So tagging when it was introduce was quite a relieve back then because it guarantee that the person who attack first will gain the full experience from the mob and don't have to worry that someone will steal your loot. GW2 system is another step of development of the current system.
    I wonder why the XP was split 50-50 between the 2 players... Why couldn't both get 100% each? Did these old-school designers ever give a reason?

  14. #14
    Why aren't recent MMOs implementing overflow servers ? Why aren't recent MMOs pushing systems that make all content always relevant no matter how many expansions are published or what level you are ? Why aren't more MMOs clearly separating between PvE and PvP so as to not hinder PvP players with such annoyances as gear before skill ?

    Because instead of going back to the drawing board and imagining an MMORPG as it should be today after all those years of experience, they are just iterating on the same old formulas with gimmicks thrown here and there that do nothing to resolve the core problems of the genre. That's why most people are in fact excited about this game : even if it utterly fails commercialy it would have still helped the industry make a giant leap forward. But seeing how even competing studios have nothing but admiration for ArenaNet's work, I think they'll do well

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    I wonder why the XP was split 50-50 between the 2 players... Why couldn't both get 100% each? Did these old-school designers ever give a reason?
    Took it down twice as fast, so you got half the EXP. Back then it sounded like a good smart idea, but ideas and opinions change.
    - Guild Wars 2 Characters -
    Senari of the Woad | Riven Lightsbane | Cain the Mystic


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Why aren't recent MMOs implementing overflow servers ? Why aren't recent MMOs pushing systems that make all content always relevant no matter how many expansions are published or what level you are ? Why aren't more MMOs clearly separating between PvE and PvP so as to not hinder PvP players with such annoyances as gear before skill ?

    Because instead of going back to the drawing board and imagining an MMORPG as it should be today after all those years of experience, they are just iterating on the same old formulas with gimmicks thrown here and there that do nothing to resolve the core problems of the genre. That's why most people are in fact excited about this game : even if it utterly fails commercialy it would have still helped the industry make a giant leap forward. But seeing how even competing studios have nothing but admiration for ArenaNet's work, I think they'll do well
    *Applauds*

    Bravo good sir!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Why aren't recent MMOs implementing overflow servers ? Why aren't recent MMOs pushing systems that make all content always relevant no matter how many expansions are published or what level you are ? Why aren't more MMOs clearly separating between PvE and PvP so as to not hinder PvP players with such annoyances as gear before skill ?

    Because instead of going back to the drawing board and imagining an MMORPG as it should be today after all those years of experience, they are just iterating on the same old formulas with gimmicks thrown here and there that do nothing to resolve the core problems of the genre. That's why most people are in fact excited about this game : even if it utterly fails commercialy it would have still helped the industry make a giant leap forward. But seeing how even competing studios have nothing but admiration for ArenaNet's work, I think they'll do well
    I know these are rhetorical questions in a sense... but I wish I knew the answers. I mean these companies are sinking in millions of dollars, sometimes even hundreds of millions of dollars, into their games. What are the real answers to these questions.... ? How is it that investors are willing to voluntarily part with their money for these games.... it's puzzling. It makes no economic sense, for one thing.

  18. #18
    Well, in a classical MMOs, where the level really matters, it makes sense to prevent the player from leveling too quickly. Rangarok was already mentioned as an example in this thread. If everyone would get the full amount of XP from killing a mob, what prevents you from organizing groups of 200 people who would just steamroll the map killig all monsters and leveling extremely quickly? Thus, XP awarded by the mob is treated as an resource, and if multiple people are involved, they must share that resource. Mob tagging was introduced to prevent abuse (ninja experience and loot stealing). WoW took this system even further, limiting the XP you would get when grouped with a high-level character in order to avoid power-leveling.

    So, in a classical MMO, players have to compete for resources such as loot, experience, farming spots, crafting materials which is one of the main reasons why the MMO community is usually so messed up. This is a system that actually promotes being unfair, secretive and taking advantage of other people. I really love how ANet tries to break this "circle of hatred" by implementing a system free of player conflict. The reason why they can do this, of course, is because the "level" in this game is a purely cosmetic thing, so its really irrelevant how long it will take you to 80. In WoW, once you are max level, there is absolutely no reason to go back to a low-level zone (or to a previous expansion zone). In GW2, you can still get back and enjoy the content, and maybe even get new, better loot.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-03 at 08:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    I know these are rhetorical questions in a sense... but I wish I knew the answers. I mean these companies are sinking in millions of dollars, sometimes even hundreds of millions of dollars, into their games. What are the real answers to these questions.... ? How is it that investors are willing to voluntarily part with their money for these games.... it's puzzling. It makes no economic sense, for one thing.
    The answer is rather obvious: because people are afraid to do something new! If you present your totally new, awesome idea to the investors, they will be very skeptical. If you tell them: "A, B and C did that and had great financial success, so I propose we do the same thing, bu wrap it up in a prettier package", you will immediately get support. This is the way computer games, movies, music and even books work. A great example of this are Microsoft with its "Divide and Conquer" strategy and Samsung releasing smartphones which blatantly copies their competition. Only a handful of companies really try to do something new (there are of course exceptions, e.g. car industry is usually rather innovative)...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mafao View Post
    Well, in a classical MMOs, where the level really matters, it makes sense to prevent the player from leveling too quickly. Rangarok was already mentioned as an example in this thread. If everyone would get the full amount of XP from killing a mob, what prevents you from organizing groups of 200 people who would just steamroll the map killig all monsters and leveling extremely quickly? Thus, XP awarded by the mob is treated as an resource, and if multiple people are involved, they must share that resource. Mob tagging was introduced to prevent abuse (ninja experience and loot stealing). WoW took this system even further, limiting the XP you would get when grouped with a high-level character in order to avoid power-leveling.

    So, in a classical MMO, players have to compete for resources such as loot, experience, farming spots, crafting materials which is one of the main reasons why the MMO community is usually so messed up. This is a system that actually promotes being unfair, secretive and taking advantage of other people. I really love how ANet tries to break this "circle of hatred" by implementing a system free of player conflict. The reason why they can do this, of course, is because the "level" in this game is a purely cosmetic thing, so its really irrelevant how long it will take you to 80. In WoW, once you are max level, there is absolutely no reason to go back to a low-level zone (or to a previous expansion zone). In GW2, you can still get back and enjoy the content, and maybe even get new, better loot.
    I would totally support getting 200 people together and steamrolling through a zone. It would be beyond epic! Even if the XP was shared to some extent, it would be tremendous fun. Granted 200 is a lot, but I'm still good with 10-15 too.

    But even if mob XP is shared, I'm not sure why that would require mob-tagging? If XP is shared, how can you steal it? The XP sharing part I get, but the mob-tagging part... not so much.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Why aren't recent MMOs implementing overflow servers ? Why aren't recent MMOs pushing systems that make all content always relevant no matter how many expansions are published or what level you are ? Why aren't more MMOs clearly separating between PvE and PvP so as to not hinder PvP players with such annoyances as gear before skill ?

    Because instead of going back to the drawing board and imagining an MMORPG as it should be today after all those years of experience, they are just iterating on the same old formulas with gimmicks thrown here and there that do nothing to resolve the core problems of the genre. That's why most people are in fact excited about this game : even if it utterly fails commercialy it would have still helped the industry make a giant leap forward. But seeing how even competing studios have nothing but admiration for ArenaNet's work, I think they'll do well
    Most of that stuff isn't a "problem" or at least is merely a personal POV. For most developers it's a simple matter of cost why MMOs tend to be conservative.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-03-03 at 04:23 PM.

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