1. #1581
    Brewmaster Wass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Also, within leagues there are different divisions and some divisions are higher than others. There will be some which house the worse players in that league and others with some better players. Depends on what division you're in as well because if you're at the top of a good one then fine, promotion - but top of a bad one and you've gota keep working, prove you're good enough.
    This I have no idea of. Do you have any source for this claim? I kinda need some proof to believe this.
    All I would ever want and need is a hug.

  2. #1582
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wass View Post
    This I have no idea of. Do you have any source for this claim? I kinda need some proof to believe this.
    I'll try find some I'm pretty sure I read it back when I was first playing SC but I can't remember if it was last year when I played a bit or the year before that (I played, took a looong break, played again, loong break). I might be wrong but that's what I was believeing, that some divisions were harder than others - I mean there's the chance that could happen naturally but I was under the impression it was designed said way too. Otherwise, especially in a league like gold (32%) you can't assume that everyones going to have the same ability seeing as it's such a huge number of players, gota be a subdivide in there.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  3. #1583
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I'll try find some I'm pretty sure I read it back when I was first playing SC but I can't remember if it was last year when I played a bit or the year before that (I played, took a looong break, played again, loong break). I might be wrong but that's what I was believeing, that some divisions were harder than others - I mean there's the chance that could happen naturally but I was under the impression it was designed said way too.
    You are right, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169830 is a good source for it.

  4. #1584
    Hey guys, high Diamond league zerg player here, (currently rank 5) I'll be around monitoring this thread if anyone has any questions of sorts I'll try and help.

    If anyone's curious how I've gotten to this point I'll summarize what I try to do in each of my match-ups real quickly.

    I always scout after 9 overlord, regardless of match-up.

    ZvZ
    A lot of early game aggression with lings and blings. Usually can end the game early there, but if not, and I scout mutas I'll go early 3rd with infestor/roach/hydra and spores at all bases to defend. Usually will make the opponent ragequit due to chain fungals on a big pack of their mutas.

    ZvP
    My best matchup by far. I'm currently always going 15pool/16hatch/22hatch. I get 4 queens and 4 lings at the start. at 6:00 min i put down double extractors in main. 6:30 I put roach warren down. Lair tech then mass roaches. If i scout a immortal all in i cut droning early and get hydras with speed FIRST.

    ZvT
    A lot of lings/blings/mutas with a couple roaches around the 6:30mark to stop helions/firebats from wrecking my... everything. I try to push around 15min with a LOT of lings/blings/mutas. If he has a big biomine army i try and do my best to micro around all the mines and do some damage while teching to ultras.

    Hopefully this helps someone, as I said before I'll be around monitoring this thread and seeing whaddup.

    EDIT: My Twitch stream is here>>> http://www.twitch.tv/brewsko I usually stream when i play for my friends on skype but if you have any questions or just want to see me play stop by.
    Last edited by Brusco86; 2013-04-08 at 10:32 PM.
    i have no signature, because carrots.

  5. #1585
    Quote Originally Posted by Wass View Post
    Schalde, since you have a positive W-L ratio you're on your way there, but your mmr is going up slowly. It's not a matter of how many wins you actually have, but what kind of wins. Just keep fighting. That's all you need to do. It's about improving anyway - your rank on the ladder is not really all the glory in the world.



    I'll take a look at this tomorrow. Heading to bed now.
    It is and isn't. When that end of season comes rolling about, you want to place high in your division. All these little divisions matter. I probably max out as a diamond league player. Probably will never get higher. So to me it's about getting a good position in diamond.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  6. #1586
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Also, within leagues there are different divisions and some divisions are higher than others. There will be some which house the worse players in that league and others with some better players. Depends on what division you're in as well because if you're at the top of a good one then fine, promotion - but top of a bad one and you've gota keep working, prove you're good enough.
    They stopped doing this like 8 months ago.
    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=366727
    http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/715...eason-9_6_2012

    EDIT: Masters zerg on NA, dont feel I belong there but you can get there with standard openings and good macro and reasonable responses. My micro is probably sub par and responses are meh because my scouting sucks. But my mechanics with injects, creep tumors, drones and overlords are good which lets me win games.

    ZvP: 14 pool into earliest hatch possible
    ZvT: Hatch first into 4 queens
    ZvZ: Either hatch first and keep an eye on his drone count at his natural if he FE'd or cheese. Pro tip: 1 base +1 roach nydus wins games.
    Last edited by TheRabidDeer; 2013-04-09 at 01:36 AM.

  7. #1587
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusco86 View Post
    ZvP
    My best matchup by far. I'm currently always going 15pool/16hatch/22hatch. I get 4 queens and 4 lings at the start. at 6:00 min i put down double extractors in main. 6:30 I put roach warren down. Lair tech then mass roaches. If i scout a immortal all in i cut droning early and get hydras with speed FIRST.
    You still recon a 11 roach max is viable then? I used to use it in WoL but it doesn't seem as strong in HoTS for some reason. Always get stomped on before I can get enough roaches out or they just scout and go Immortal/Skytoss.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Pro tip: 1 base +1 roach nydus wins games.
    I might try this actually. What sort of build order are you using just a 7RR opening hold ramp into nydus?
    Last edited by Kakazam; 2013-04-09 at 03:44 AM.

  8. #1588
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    I might try this actually. What sort of build order are you using just a 7RR opening hold ramp into nydus?
    15 pool
    Late 15 gas (as you approach 100 minerals, a larvae should spawn shortly after you put it down)
    Roach Warren + Queen as soon as pool finishes.
    If OL's see lings coming put a spine down by your pool
    When RW finishes, 3 roaches send them to block the ramp and drone to saturation (16 on minerals, 3 on each gas eventually)
    Evo chamber + 2nd gas when they are out
    Start +1 ASAP
    Then lair
    When lair is like halfway done stop making roaches to save gas for nydus, make OL's though because you will need them anyway (at least up to 66 supply)
    Nydus should pop in their base right as +1 finishes. Enjoy 2 shotting lings and having an upgrade advantage if they went roaches themselves.

    It is very all in and you will have to figure out what to attack and when you should pull back and try to salvage the game. But, it is also simple and easy to do.

    Oh, and make sure you have at least 3 OL's positioned around their base. Ideally 2 spots visible in their main and 1 near the front of their natural.

    EDIT: Reason why it works in most cases:
    If they went for a quick expand their economy lead doesnt kick in until right as the attack happens. You are both on equal economy almost the entire time. If they made drones, they lose. If they made lings, they lose. If they got +1 carapace or lots of spines, you might be in trouble.

    This build is a result of me hating zvz and ling/bling wars and my inability to micro as well as other zergs in masters.
    Last edited by TheRabidDeer; 2013-04-09 at 04:06 AM.

  9. #1589
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Ok, this is what I was meaning when I said it looks like a 2 rax FE except it really wasn't an FE and he'll just stream units into my base. This one was a bit slower than some that I've had but he massed a few more units, but I stuck to the getting some sentries just to hold it back and did for a nice while. We seemed to expand at the same times too, and although I handled drops absolutely appaulingly as I'm not used to seeing repeated ones, usually I get one then they give up, because I'm playing bad people. So, because I had to do some economic recovery and was trying to macro up ready for an attack, I foolishly neglected a cannon at mineral lines just to deter a bit.

    If I'd remembered the MSC existence (hmrph) then it might have been a bit less painful, same with if I'd got the forge as soon as I saw the medivacs. To be honest if I hadn't made such an appauling engagement off the back of what I saw with my observer, I might well have won. If I'd stayed back we coulda fought on the ramp where I'd have instant reinforcements, my zealots might not have got trapped and be useless, and I think I was building a colossus... 1 giraffe and even in the middle that battle woulda been mine. Grrr, threw it away.

    http://drop.sc/320921
    You should micro your immortals better, at 10 minute you've lost a lot of them, and many shots was fired at marines, which is bad if there is still alive marauders, you lose like, 29 damage if you let your immortals fire at marines.
    After you managed to win this fight, you should make: zealot charge / forge upgrades / colossi / high templars into archons (pick whatever you like) but not more stalkers, you had too many of them. If you was scared by widow mine drops, you could make 1-3 canons on your mineral line and you would be fine.
    And at ~20 minute, you just walked in with your blink-less 1/0/0 stalkers against 1/1 M&M&M. If you would swap amount of stalkers and zealots you would win with proper micro (immortals on marauders, stalkers on medevacs), but again, your immortals wasted too much time on shooting marines and on walking around because they was blocked by stalkers. 1/1 Zealots with charge and archons could easily destroy M&M&M, even stalkers with colossi could do the trick, even blocking part of his army by FFs and shooting it down by stalkers could help you, but you can't win like this (A+click) without 3/3/3, and handful amount of zealots
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  10. #1590
    Oh btw, Kakazam... the new 11 min roach is with hydras instead. Quick 3 base hydra is generally quite effective. Just get speed first. If you dont kill him and he gets colossus be sure to tech to vipers quickly though.

  11. #1591
    Cool I'll give it a play around, need to learn some more timing attacks so I remember to actually attack rather than gain a economic advantage with no units to back it up ha.

    Yeah I've been going for sort of <12 min hydra/swarmhost/bling and finding it quite effective against Protoss. I tend to just get out corruptors when I see a robo or colossus since by that point they can only have a couple max.
    Last edited by Kakazam; 2013-04-09 at 04:38 AM.

  12. #1592
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    Cool I'll give it a play around, need to learn some more timing attacks so I remember to actually attack rather than gain a economic advantage with no units to back it up ha.

    Yeah I've been going for sort of <12 min hydra/swarmhost/bling and finding it quite effective against Protoss. I tend to just get out corruptors when I see a robo or colossus since by that point they can only have a couple max.
    If you already have infestation pit for swarmhosts remember that hive and spire have the same build time and you can get vipers out with just hive.

  13. #1593
    Yeah still not even tried Vipers really (hate spell-casters). Managed to max out on just hydra's for 13 min with +1+1 using Stephano's roach build, hopefully cut that down with some earlier gas timings.

  14. #1594
    Mechagnome
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    TvP is so weird in diamond, protoss go for random 1/2 base all-ins if they get held protoss just dont seem to know what to do, I've had several games when they kill like 20-30 workers and I still win...
    its kinda confusing how they cant play macro even with such a big advantage

  15. #1595
    Brewmaster Wass's Avatar
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    ^ This so much

    Their midgame gets shit, but you have to hit them before they go super-lategame. I'm naturally at a disadvantage in lategame engages vs protoss. I'm still not good enough as to control everything like I'm supposed to in a lategame engagement situation.
    All I would ever want and need is a hug.

  16. #1596
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    Im not even having any problems in the lategame, feels like protoss (atleast in eu diamond, cant speak for higher leagues) relies 100% on all-ins not a single protoss i've played so far in hots has spread out their high templars against emps and such

    Speedivacs messed up the protosses who cant multitask it seems

  17. #1597
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You should micro your immortals better, at 10 minute you've lost a lot of them, and many shots was fired at marines, which is bad if there is still alive marauders, you lose like, 29 damage if you let your immortals fire at marines.
    After you managed to win this fight, you should make: zealot charge / forge upgrades / colossi / high templars into archons (pick whatever you like) but not more stalkers, you had too many of them. If you was scared by widow mine drops, you could make 1-3 canons on your mineral line and you would be fine.
    And at ~20 minute, you just walked in with your blink-less 1/0/0 stalkers against 1/1 M&M&M. If you would swap amount of stalkers and zealots you would win with proper micro (immortals on marauders, stalkers on medevacs), but again, your immortals wasted too much time on shooting marines and on walking around because they was blocked by stalkers. 1/1 Zealots with charge and archons could easily destroy M&M&M, even stalkers with colossi could do the trick, even blocking part of his army by FFs and shooting it down by stalkers could help you, but you can't win like this (A+click) without 3/3/3, and handful amount of zealots
    Yeah, I know all this - tbh that was the first game I'd actually managed to get that far when the terran goes for that build because before, I was learning how to do it having never seen it before. I know what I'm doing for next time but really I shoulda stomped him Thank you for the comments thought, I was definitely slow on some really fundamental things.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  18. #1598
    Brewmaster Wass's Avatar
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    Ah yeah, speedivacs are really good against those kind of protoss who can't multitask. That's very true.

    The whole emp business is srs. You need a spread army. If it aint properly spread you can't even take one storm.
    All I would ever want and need is a hug.

  19. #1599
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Yeah, I know all this - tbh that was the first game I'd actually managed to get that far when the terran goes for that build because before, I was learning how to do it having never seen it before. I know what I'm doing for next time but really I shoulda stomped him Thank you for the comments thought, I was definitely slow on some really fundamental things.
    Personally, PvT is my easiest match, i win most of PvZ but i fail in PvP. Usually because i can't manage to make more units than my enemy or i fail to time expansions.
    I think it is because i am more RA2 or WC3 player, where you don't spend too much time on your economy, i focus more on micro and on army-setup.

    I love protoss because they have two defensive upgrades (in late game your zealots have 3/3/3 which brings them to -7 damage from anything) and that's what saves me against late zerg and any terran (marines do like, 4 damage to zealots, and some players in gold still makes them, they just ignore thors and battleships. Zerg ultra+infestors can't cleave through zealot wall and ultras die too fast against void rays).
    Protoss is very strong race with high skill cap (but still, i think that playing zerg requires much more attention and management that protoss, i.e. requires more skill to play at same level) because if you will manage to survive and withstand all enemy attacks and control his expansions (i.e. if enemy expands, you expand too because he will not attack you), if you don't fall back you will win because of your late game units (1 carrier can destroy enemy protoss mass stalker, because without micro he will attack interceptors instead of actual units).
    The shit i learned from playing as protoss: as long as you survive enough to make 3/3/3, you win the game. So don't bee too hasty with attacks, harass with little groups of zealots from proxy pylons (if map allows to) and respond correctly to his army setup and you will be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  20. #1600
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Yeah, I know all this - tbh that was the first game I'd actually managed to get that far when the terran goes for that build because before, I was learning how to do it having never seen it before. I know what I'm doing for next time but really I shoulda stomped him Thank you for the comments thought, I was definitely slow on some really fundamental things.
    Just watched the replay. That really was an unnecessaray loss. Your hotkeys seem to be a bit lacking, Forges too late, only one upgrade out of two Forges, you never build the MSC and the last fight was taken in a really bad spot for you too (Also did you A-move?). The part about the overused stalkers and lack of T3 tech (Templar/Colossus) was already covered.

    You really should try to always have some Pylons over the map and warp in counterattacks (DTs, Zealots), you never really set one foot on the enemy halve of the map.
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