1. #1581
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusco86 View Post
    ZvP
    My best matchup by far. I'm currently always going 15pool/16hatch/22hatch. I get 4 queens and 4 lings at the start. at 6:00 min i put down double extractors in main. 6:30 I put roach warren down. Lair tech then mass roaches. If i scout a immortal all in i cut droning early and get hydras with speed FIRST.
    You still recon a 11 roach max is viable then? I used to use it in WoL but it doesn't seem as strong in HoTS for some reason. Always get stomped on before I can get enough roaches out or they just scout and go Immortal/Skytoss.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Pro tip: 1 base +1 roach nydus wins games.
    I might try this actually. What sort of build order are you using just a 7RR opening hold ramp into nydus?
    Last edited by mmoc6d00db7716; 2013-04-09 at 03:44 AM.

  2. #1582
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    I might try this actually. What sort of build order are you using just a 7RR opening hold ramp into nydus?
    15 pool
    Late 15 gas (as you approach 100 minerals, a larvae should spawn shortly after you put it down)
    Roach Warren + Queen as soon as pool finishes.
    If OL's see lings coming put a spine down by your pool
    When RW finishes, 3 roaches send them to block the ramp and drone to saturation (16 on minerals, 3 on each gas eventually)
    Evo chamber + 2nd gas when they are out
    Start +1 ASAP
    Then lair
    When lair is like halfway done stop making roaches to save gas for nydus, make OL's though because you will need them anyway (at least up to 66 supply)
    Nydus should pop in their base right as +1 finishes. Enjoy 2 shotting lings and having an upgrade advantage if they went roaches themselves.

    It is very all in and you will have to figure out what to attack and when you should pull back and try to salvage the game. But, it is also simple and easy to do.

    Oh, and make sure you have at least 3 OL's positioned around their base. Ideally 2 spots visible in their main and 1 near the front of their natural.

    EDIT: Reason why it works in most cases:
    If they went for a quick expand their economy lead doesnt kick in until right as the attack happens. You are both on equal economy almost the entire time. If they made drones, they lose. If they made lings, they lose. If they got +1 carapace or lots of spines, you might be in trouble.

    This build is a result of me hating zvz and ling/bling wars and my inability to micro as well as other zergs in masters.
    Last edited by TheRabidDeer; 2013-04-09 at 04:06 AM.

  3. #1583
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Ok, this is what I was meaning when I said it looks like a 2 rax FE except it really wasn't an FE and he'll just stream units into my base. This one was a bit slower than some that I've had but he massed a few more units, but I stuck to the getting some sentries just to hold it back and did for a nice while. We seemed to expand at the same times too, and although I handled drops absolutely appaulingly as I'm not used to seeing repeated ones, usually I get one then they give up, because I'm playing bad people. So, because I had to do some economic recovery and was trying to macro up ready for an attack, I foolishly neglected a cannon at mineral lines just to deter a bit.

    If I'd remembered the MSC existence (hmrph) then it might have been a bit less painful, same with if I'd got the forge as soon as I saw the medivacs. To be honest if I hadn't made such an appauling engagement off the back of what I saw with my observer, I might well have won. If I'd stayed back we coulda fought on the ramp where I'd have instant reinforcements, my zealots might not have got trapped and be useless, and I think I was building a colossus... 1 giraffe and even in the middle that battle woulda been mine. Grrr, threw it away.

    http://drop.sc/320921
    You should micro your immortals better, at 10 minute you've lost a lot of them, and many shots was fired at marines, which is bad if there is still alive marauders, you lose like, 29 damage if you let your immortals fire at marines.
    After you managed to win this fight, you should make: zealot charge / forge upgrades / colossi / high templars into archons (pick whatever you like) but not more stalkers, you had too many of them. If you was scared by widow mine drops, you could make 1-3 canons on your mineral line and you would be fine.
    And at ~20 minute, you just walked in with your blink-less 1/0/0 stalkers against 1/1 M&M&M. If you would swap amount of stalkers and zealots you would win with proper micro (immortals on marauders, stalkers on medevacs), but again, your immortals wasted too much time on shooting marines and on walking around because they was blocked by stalkers. 1/1 Zealots with charge and archons could easily destroy M&M&M, even stalkers with colossi could do the trick, even blocking part of his army by FFs and shooting it down by stalkers could help you, but you can't win like this (A+click) without 3/3/3, and handful amount of zealots
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  4. #1584
    Oh btw, Kakazam... the new 11 min roach is with hydras instead. Quick 3 base hydra is generally quite effective. Just get speed first. If you dont kill him and he gets colossus be sure to tech to vipers quickly though.

  5. #1585
    Deleted
    Cool I'll give it a play around, need to learn some more timing attacks so I remember to actually attack rather than gain a economic advantage with no units to back it up ha.

    Yeah I've been going for sort of <12 min hydra/swarmhost/bling and finding it quite effective against Protoss. I tend to just get out corruptors when I see a robo or colossus since by that point they can only have a couple max.
    Last edited by mmoc6d00db7716; 2013-04-09 at 04:38 AM.

  6. #1586
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    Cool I'll give it a play around, need to learn some more timing attacks so I remember to actually attack rather than gain a economic advantage with no units to back it up ha.

    Yeah I've been going for sort of <12 min hydra/swarmhost/bling and finding it quite effective against Protoss. I tend to just get out corruptors when I see a robo or colossus since by that point they can only have a couple max.
    If you already have infestation pit for swarmhosts remember that hive and spire have the same build time and you can get vipers out with just hive.

  7. #1587
    Deleted
    Yeah still not even tried Vipers really (hate spell-casters). Managed to max out on just hydra's for 13 min with +1+1 using Stephano's roach build, hopefully cut that down with some earlier gas timings.

  8. #1588
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    TvP is so weird in diamond, protoss go for random 1/2 base all-ins if they get held protoss just dont seem to know what to do, I've had several games when they kill like 20-30 workers and I still win...
    its kinda confusing how they cant play macro even with such a big advantage

  9. #1589
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    ^ This so much

    Their midgame gets shit, but you have to hit them before they go super-lategame. I'm naturally at a disadvantage in lategame engages vs protoss. I'm still not good enough as to control everything like I'm supposed to in a lategame engagement situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyra View Post
    Because what they are atm are plait tugging, sniffing, glaring, prissy, clothes obsessed bitches who I would quite cheerfully drown.
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  10. #1590
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    Im not even having any problems in the lategame, feels like protoss (atleast in eu diamond, cant speak for higher leagues) relies 100% on all-ins not a single protoss i've played so far in hots has spread out their high templars against emps and such

    Speedivacs messed up the protosses who cant multitask it seems

  11. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You should micro your immortals better, at 10 minute you've lost a lot of them, and many shots was fired at marines, which is bad if there is still alive marauders, you lose like, 29 damage if you let your immortals fire at marines.
    After you managed to win this fight, you should make: zealot charge / forge upgrades / colossi / high templars into archons (pick whatever you like) but not more stalkers, you had too many of them. If you was scared by widow mine drops, you could make 1-3 canons on your mineral line and you would be fine.
    And at ~20 minute, you just walked in with your blink-less 1/0/0 stalkers against 1/1 M&M&M. If you would swap amount of stalkers and zealots you would win with proper micro (immortals on marauders, stalkers on medevacs), but again, your immortals wasted too much time on shooting marines and on walking around because they was blocked by stalkers. 1/1 Zealots with charge and archons could easily destroy M&M&M, even stalkers with colossi could do the trick, even blocking part of his army by FFs and shooting it down by stalkers could help you, but you can't win like this (A+click) without 3/3/3, and handful amount of zealots
    Yeah, I know all this - tbh that was the first game I'd actually managed to get that far when the terran goes for that build because before, I was learning how to do it having never seen it before. I know what I'm doing for next time but really I shoulda stomped him Thank you for the comments thought, I was definitely slow on some really fundamental things.
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  12. #1592
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    Ah yeah, speedivacs are really good against those kind of protoss who can't multitask. That's very true.

    The whole emp business is srs. You need a spread army. If it aint properly spread you can't even take one storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyra View Post
    Because what they are atm are plait tugging, sniffing, glaring, prissy, clothes obsessed bitches who I would quite cheerfully drown.
    I often post from my mobile device, typos in my posts are 99% likely to be because of that.
    All I would ever want and need is a hug.

  13. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Yeah, I know all this - tbh that was the first game I'd actually managed to get that far when the terran goes for that build because before, I was learning how to do it having never seen it before. I know what I'm doing for next time but really I shoulda stomped him Thank you for the comments thought, I was definitely slow on some really fundamental things.
    Personally, PvT is my easiest match, i win most of PvZ but i fail in PvP. Usually because i can't manage to make more units than my enemy or i fail to time expansions.
    I think it is because i am more RA2 or WC3 player, where you don't spend too much time on your economy, i focus more on micro and on army-setup.

    I love protoss because they have two defensive upgrades (in late game your zealots have 3/3/3 which brings them to -7 damage from anything) and that's what saves me against late zerg and any terran (marines do like, 4 damage to zealots, and some players in gold still makes them, they just ignore thors and battleships. Zerg ultra+infestors can't cleave through zealot wall and ultras die too fast against void rays).
    Protoss is very strong race with high skill cap (but still, i think that playing zerg requires much more attention and management that protoss, i.e. requires more skill to play at same level) because if you will manage to survive and withstand all enemy attacks and control his expansions (i.e. if enemy expands, you expand too because he will not attack you), if you don't fall back you will win because of your late game units (1 carrier can destroy enemy protoss mass stalker, because without micro he will attack interceptors instead of actual units).
    The shit i learned from playing as protoss: as long as you survive enough to make 3/3/3, you win the game. So don't bee too hasty with attacks, harass with little groups of zealots from proxy pylons (if map allows to) and respond correctly to his army setup and you will be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
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  14. #1594
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Yeah, I know all this - tbh that was the first game I'd actually managed to get that far when the terran goes for that build because before, I was learning how to do it having never seen it before. I know what I'm doing for next time but really I shoulda stomped him Thank you for the comments thought, I was definitely slow on some really fundamental things.
    Just watched the replay. That really was an unnecessaray loss. Your hotkeys seem to be a bit lacking, Forges too late, only one upgrade out of two Forges, you never build the MSC and the last fight was taken in a really bad spot for you too (Also did you A-move?). The part about the overused stalkers and lack of T3 tech (Templar/Colossus) was already covered.

    You really should try to always have some Pylons over the map and warp in counterattacks (DTs, Zealots), you never really set one foot on the enemy halve of the map.

  15. #1595
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fryya View Post
    (Also did you A-move?).
    Uhhhh.... D:

    Also.... all of my wut, goes into this game.

    http://drop.sc/321286

    I thought people stopped doing this? Reminded me of NaNiwa and his infamous version of this. Same with the building a new command center and floating it to the corner of the map and having 6 SCV sitting there as if you never started.

    Just had a 3rd guy in as many days link some random korean to me as soon as we joined a game. This time however I had some korean copy pasted as me and my girlfriend just finished a korean lesson if you can call it that on facebook So just pasted that, added a question mark and tada... he absolutely shit the bed and then shit on the floor and then slipped on said shit and faceplanted in it.

    Need some of you guys to start linking silly replays or if there's a problem at least you're gona get a lot of quick replies here from all corners of ability - idk what TL forums are like and the official ones are shite.
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  16. #1596
    Deleted
    So i just decided to see what unranked was like. Played some zerg, was vs a toss so i thought i'd open standard and flood lings and follow it up with muta. Was expecting to do damage, wasn't expecting to win..

    People get so unhappy when they lose apparently..

    http://i.imgur.com/96bGMVu.jpg

    Wont let me embed the image properly, dunno why, have to use the link. Apologies for my fucking awful name blocking out skills.

  17. #1597
    Quote Originally Posted by Jess Day View Post
    So i just decided to see what unranked was like. Played some zerg, was vs a toss so i thought i'd open standard and flood lings and follow it up with muta. Was expecting to do damage, wasn't expecting to win..

    People get so unhappy when they lose apparently..

    http://i.imgur.com/96bGMVu.jpg

    Wont let me embed the image properly, dunno why, have to use the link. Apologies for my fucking awful name blocking out skills.
    Unranked plays with ranked people too. It isnt unranked vs unranked only.

  18. #1598
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Unranked plays with ranked people too. It isnt unranked vs unranked only.
    But those people don't gain/lose points right? I was under the impression it was just completely free of any ladder influence, had it's own mmr system etc.

  19. #1599
    Quote Originally Posted by Jess Day View Post
    But those people don't gain/lose points right? I was under the impression it was just completely free of any ladder influence, had it's own mmr system etc.
    Those people do gain/lose points (it is a normal ladder game for them), but you dont. The MMR used for each is separate for your own purposes.
    You have a ranked MMR and an unranked MMR. The starting point for unranked is based on your ranked MMR.

  20. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Those people do gain/lose points (it is a normal ladder game for them), but you dont. The MMR used for each is separate for your own purposes.
    You have a ranked MMR and an unranked MMR. The starting point for unranked is based on your ranked MMR.
    I also thought unranked was completely separate for everyone and only mirrored your MMR based on your ranked performance. What ever league I'm in is generally the same guys I get in ranked/unranked.

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