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  1. #1

    [Official] The Occupy Movement

    So I perused the forums (and by that I mean the first page) and noticed that there isn't a thread specifically discussing the OWS movement. I think that is a significant movement going on as of now, and does deserve our opinions. As usual keep all conversation polite and respectful, keeps trolls and flames to a minimum (unless it's really funny or the person is rather dense).

    I can understand their plight, knowing that it's our money mostly that was bailing out the banks and they still act fiscally irresponsible. Also knowing that the owners of said banks own more money than all of us combined, and squared (citation needed). The average person has had a decreasing quality of life for the past 30 years, while the select few have had a an exponentially increasing quality. I'm not too good at just starting off debates like this, so I'll let you guys take the floor.

  2. #2
    This is the "Democratic Socialists of America" group? If so, I certainly wouldn't put my stock into a group with "Democratic Socialists" in the name as holding the answer to government being in bed with big businesses. As the answer certainly isn't more regulation and larger government.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
    http://occupywallst.org/forum/propos...all-st-moveme/

    Sorry to say, but they're nutjobs. I would break down every one of their demands, but they're so insane there really isn't a point...

    Since people keep taking this link as official, editing this to clarify it's not an official list, but rather "fan fiction"
    Last edited by Maharishi; 2011-10-27 at 07:00 PM.

  5. #5
    They are just the Democratic Tea Party. At least it'll help the Democrats sort out the true members and the insane nutjobs, I suppose.

  6. #6
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    There are so many groups at these protests, libertarians, socialists, communists and anarchists. The problem is, the media is concentrating on the little issues, that of peoples political preferences, rather than the big issue of a private bank (US Federal Reserve)that dictates to the American people, who controls the wealth and is destroying the country in favour of saving some banks, its a joke!
    Once we get past the trivial things such as political preference, then we as a human race will succeed, otherwise it will be a constant path we go down, from conquering fascism to becoming fascist (The US is currently becoming a fascist state).
    Plus this is happening in many other countries, so its not just to do with the Fed, its awaken by the people who are sick of the corrupt elite who only have self interests...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
    http://occupywallst.org/forum/propos...all-st-moveme/

    Sorry to say, but they're nutjobs. I would break down every one of their demands, but they're so insane there really isn't a point...
    I think going to the first website you see and expecting it to reflect the views of an entire movement is absurd. The entire point is that they don't have an official organization, website, or set of beliefs. That's just some guy capitalizing on the media attention.
    Thank you dubbelbasse for the excellent sig!

  8. #8
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy View Post
    They are just the Democratic Tea Party. At least it'll help the Democrats sort out the true members and the insane nutjobs, I suppose.
    no you are wrong, they are many political preferences, dont be naive...

  9. #9
    Investing money is a big time hobby of mine, so I view politics through a passionless prism. I view both the left and right as conniving and attempting to brainwash the masses to achieve power. Its critical to observe it that way for the purposes of my hobby, otherwise I hurt my chances of making money.

    Strictly from an investors point of view, I am interested in how OWS could affect future politics. OWS is a leftist protest movement. The first question I ask is "what affects on politics did the leftist protests movements in the 1960s and 1970s have?"

    Looking at election results and shifts in party affiliation, the leftist protest movement in the 60s and 70s GREATLY DAMAGED the democratic party. Here is a graph of party ID in the US from 1939-2009:



    The early 1960s saw the democratic party reach its zenith in power and support, with 51% of voters identifying as democrat. Leftist protests began around 1964 and lasted through the 1970s. This coincided with the resurrection of the GOP and fall of the democrats. The 1968 election is very interesting to observe, as it saw the democratic party torn in half between moderates and a radical protest wing. Nixon in 1968 ran on a platform of "law and order" which in itself positioned him in the center with the democrats on the extreme left. Nixon won in a landslide. Fortunes reversed after Watergate, but then people got really sick of the protests and gave Reagan a landslide victory and abandoned the democratic party in droves.

    The damage of the leftist protest era was severe and apparently permanent. The democratic party lost about 20% of the electorate forever-after.

    I would expect similar results if OWS catches fire. Democrats seem to understand that extremism = bad when the right-wing does it, but they apparently forget that lesson when their own side engages in it. OWS represents the democratic party vacating the political center, which the republican party WILL fill. This will mean a shift to the RIGHT in US politics, just as it did when the protests started in the 1960s. US voters are only interested in measured, thoughtful leadership and decision making, not angry mobs.

    I'm raising the odds of a republican landslide in 2012, and expecting larger majorities in congress for the GOP in 2013 because of these protests. As an investor, this means regulation cuts, tax cuts, a more business-friendly Washington, and repeal of Obamacare. I think we will see increased oil drilling as environmental protection laws get rolled back to tap into the oil bull market, so oil industry stocks will be a great play.

  10. #10
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantumall View Post
    I think going to the first website you see and expecting it to reflect the views of an entire movement is absurd. The entire point is that they don't have an official organization, website, or set of beliefs. That's just some guy capitalizing on the media attention.
    This exactly ^^ One persons views do not represent an entire group of people...

  11. #11
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantumall View Post
    I think going to the first website you see and expecting it to reflect the views of an entire movement is absurd. The entire point is that they don't have an official organization, website, or set of beliefs. That's just some guy capitalizing on the media attention.
    OK, fine. Let's go to where it started: http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet Oh, and look where they link to: http://occupywallst.org/ I rest my case.

    Or even better, you could say they don't have an real demands and that they're nothing more than a flash mob. Hell, they keep yelling democracy when we don't live in one.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Zantumall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
    OK, fine. Let's go to where it started: http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet Oh, and look where they link to: http://occupywallst.org/ I rest my case.

    Or even better, you could say they don't have an real demands and that they're nothing more than a flash mob. Hell, they keep yelling democracy when we don't live in one.
    I'm not sure you can claim that that's "where it started", and even if you could, just because it started there doesn't mean it stayed there. And besides, my point was simply that the list of demands you posted was created by a single person or a very small group. The vast majority of the protesters don't believe a word of that crap.

    In case you didn't notice, many of those people actually went to the trouble of printing their beliefs on large signs and holding them up in visible locations; I think the intent was that you could read the signs to find out what they believe, instead of just using Google and jumping on whatever you can use to insult them.
    Thank you dubbelbasse for the excellent sig!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
    they keep yelling democracy when we don't live in one.
    I completely agree with that. Our President, the head of government, is nothing more than a figure-head. The top 1% of the people own 99% of the wealth, and those same people are the essentially the same ones who run this country. The police, the people sworn in to protect and serve us, are more commonly seen brutalizing the very same people. I'm not saying that all of them are like that, but they slowly seem to be headed that way.

    But about what Poodles said, from the outside looking in, this would seem as if it is veering closer to a dictatorship or something. It's been a while since I had a class over government types.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantumall View Post
    I'm not sure you can claim that that's "where it started", and even if you could, just because it started there doesn't mean it stayed there. And besides, my point was simply that the list of demands you posted was created by a single person or a very small group. The vast majority of the protesters don't believe a word of that crap.

    In case you didn't notice, many of those people actually went to the trouble of printing their beliefs on large signs and holding them up in visible locations; I think the intent was that you could read the signs to find out what they believe, instead of just using Google and jumping on whatever you can use to insult them.
    Don't have to claim anything, go read the news about where it started and how they organised.

    I'm not going to read all their signs, though I have listened to a few interviews of the protesters and they're just as batshit crazy as that first link I posted. These people are misguided at best, insane and dangerous at their worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slammin Shaman View Post
    I completely agree with that. Our President, the head of government, is nothing more than a figure-head. The top 1% of the people own 99% of the wealth, and those same people are the essentially the same ones who run this country. The police, the people sworn in to protect and serve us, are more commonly seen brutalizing the very same people. I'm not saying that all of them are like that, but they slowly seem to be headed that way.

    But about what Poodles said, from the outside looking in, this would seem as if it is veering closer to a dictatorship or something. It's been a while since I had a class over government types.
    Was speaking more to the fact that we live in a Constitutional Republic. It's the rule of law, not mob rule that a democracy is.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
    I'm not going to read all their signs, though I have listened to a few interviews of the protesters and they're just as batshit crazy as that first link I posted. These people are misguided at best, insane and dangerous at their worst.
    I think you have that a little mixed up. Obviously people are only going to put up interviews of the craziest people, because they get the most hits on the site or the most views on their show. From what I can understand, a good majority of them are rather civil and smart about the situation, only a few of them are misguided and even fewer are insane/dangerous. Also I've read their demands, they seem reasonable and obtainable http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstree...l-demands-2009

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Slammin Shaman View Post
    I think you have that a little mixed up. Obviously people are only going to put up interviews of the craziest people, because they get the most hits on the site or the most views on their show. From what I can understand, a good majority of them are rather civil and smart about the situation, only a few of them are misguided and even fewer are insane/dangerous. Also I've read their demands, they seem reasonable and obtainable http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstree...l-demands-2009
    I've already posted where it started, your link isn't it. Not to mention it's 2 years old. Also, several of their demands contradict eachother, and some aren't reasonable at all.

  18. #18
    Purple Glow: According to that graph, it doesn't look like the resurrection of the Republican Party occurred until after the leftist protests began to subside. The uprising itself doesn't seem to correlate with the rise of the Republicans. Rather, it seems to correlate with a rise of the Independents... who still sadly feel forced to choose between just red or blue with no third choice.

    But all of this is still moot, considering the logical fallacy your entire argument is based upon. Correlation does not equal causation.

    If those protests actually did cause that drop in the Democratic Party, I still would not imagine that to directly cause landslides for the Republican Party. Remember, they have their new extreme group, too, and this will be the first election with a major Tea Party movement. Both sides are being weakened. If anything causes a Republican victory in 2012, it will be due to the economy still being terrible (2nd terms rarely occur in a bad economy) and the Democrats being sorely disappointed by Obama.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravents View Post
    Remember, they have their new extreme group, too, and this will be the first election with a major Tea Party movement. Both sides are being weakened. If anything causes a Republican victory in 2012, it will be due to the economy still being terrible (2nd terms rarely occur in a bad economy) and the Democrats being sorely disappointed by Obama.
    I wouldn't call the Tea Party extreme. At least not the original Tea Party before the GOP tried to pull them under their wing. Considering several of the people that won office with Tea Party backing were democrats. Tea Party was behind fiscal conservatism and responsability. Now it's more of an original GOP and not the neo-conservative GOP (i.e. nationbuilding, big governement types)

    The comment about Obama is sound though. I have several family members that are diehard democrats and they're annoyed the democrats aren't putting up any other candidates since they believe Obama sucks.

  20. #20
    I love what they are doing, I hate that they seem misguided and are being duped. They are actually protesting FOR obamas tax agenda, which if you look at the fine print, actually hurts the middle class. They are protesting and getting on Warren Buffetts side, which is idiotic. Buffett is the enemy. he is rich, he cares not for anyone that isn't at least a multi-millionaire. The corporations and unchecked greed are absolutely destroying America.

    Occupy needs to get their shit together, kick out the big name, big money phonies like Soros that claim to be helping them, and get a real message across. They need leadership that actually stands for 'the little man'.

    read this and more stuff at that website for more info:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=26912

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