[Balance] Sunfyre's "Fix my Balance DPS!" thread.

[Deleted]

At some point, with the GCD cap easily reached and the SS procs being too many, yes. Maybe Blizz will be wise enough to itemize a bit according to that for next tier. But Council is hardly fair for measure SS proc waste
I am truly sorry to see you using Valor trinket still, I suppose some people dodge all the luck. Unable to find anything amiss with your logs, sorry.
.

Haha, yeah, I guess I can not complain. Got back 6 weeks ago from a 3month research project abroad. The fact that im already able to help my guild kill new bosses and being this geared so soon is already a blessing I guess. But the trinket does suck haha. Can't force bliz unfortunately

You are right it is not best fight, but in general I notice I can never press it enough since it always seems to proc when you just started hardcasting
Anyone have any numbers, at which point crit devalues because of it?

[Slippykins]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nsaii/advanced

Time to switch to the 10k breakpoint?

Also I'll post logs, any advice always welcome. I wanna be the very best, like noone ever was.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xu3cisjzzkoqw44a/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ta1ln09de0r8806k/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ny0wcuewnxk30cj4/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1rhl6vcoul75lyww/

Keep in mind I didn't have my cloak when those were logged.

Like Zareth said, I'd advocate going for the 10289 haste breakpoint with your wealth of gear. You should see a good improvement with your DPS.

Logs:

• Jin'rokh: I had a look over a couple of your Jin'rokh kills and I saw a pattern with low NG uptime and relatively low damage for your gear. One log showed very low DPS(e) meaning you spent a good amount of time not doing anything at all - could this be during the Lightning Storm phase? If so, you have plenty of time to dodge and hard cast during that transition. Movement, a.k.a. periods of no damage, are hugely detrimental to our DPS and should be avoided at all times. 57% uptime on NG with your gear means almost 53 second cycle times - you should be doing more like 32 second cycles with the meta gem and the slight movement required for Jin'rokh. I can guarantee your lower DPS on that fight is due to slow cycling - you need to focus on hard casting and your rotation a lot more, for Jin'rokh at least.
• Council: see, you had 70% uptime for NG on a fight with ~2.5 targets on average, compared to 57% single-target. You cycled pretty well for Council, but your DoT uptime could've been a little better. Since Council is all about rolling DoTs and using your SS procs efficiently, it can be a little RNG and become a tradeoff between higher DoT uptime or higher SS proc waste. You featured ~93% uptime for your DoTs, and 46% SS proc waste. Your wastage is a little high for a 2.5 target average fight - for maximal DPS you'll need to react faster to your SS procs becoming available, but also managing your DoTs so that they're rolling 95%+ of the time. With higher DoT uptime comes more SS procs, so it feeds into each other very well.

Hey guys,

I am an avid reader, and regular contributor to the MMO forum. Although I am not struggeling with dps in my guild, I would like to know what the knowledgeable moonkins on this forum have to suggest for improvements on my character.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Despite/simple

Here is a log of council hc, mageara hc, unfortunately not more, because when our mage switches to his lock he stops logging :
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-84qp0z7hpv7zfuc5/

Also I would like to know what you guys think about the SS proc wastage, because as you can see on my council try, I was only able to cast little above 50% of the procs, thats how many we are getting. At some point, isn't it gonna be more valuable to get some more mastery?

Cheers,
Despite

50% is very high for a 2.5 average target fight. For Council you really want to aim for ~30-35% SS proc waste, but often it's very difficult to attain that and relies a bit on RNG spacing out procs. DoT uptime and SS proc waste are the key factors to high Council DPS, so 50% waste wont help. The general idea at the moment is that if you get a proc immediately after starting a hard cast, you cancel the hard cast and use the SS proc, since there's a high chance you'd get another proc during that hard cast period. A general priority system would be eclipsed DoT > SS proc > uneclipsed DoT - the reason eclipsed DoT is first is simply because you can't get any SS procs without any form of DoT rolling, and also because an eclipsed DoT does more DPET than a SS proc. Following that priority will net you lower DoT uptime by a few percent, but should vastly decrease your SS proc waste.

You are right it is not best fight, but in general I notice I can never press it enough since it always seems to proc when you just started hardcasting
Anyone have any numbers, at which point crit devalues because of it?

As I said, cancel your hard casts if it's early in the cast. Crit does get reduced each additional point you add due to a marginal increase in SS proc waste, but there's no mastery > crit for this tier. When we get a stable look at 5.4 gear additional crit will either go into mastery or int - from a preliminary look at SimCraft and boosting values, it looked like the secondary stats were pretty much even, but all above int.

[Bonsaii]

Definite yes about the haste breakpoint. I won't claim to be a log expert as such, but I've found one general thing that could improve your performance. Use Astral Communion prefight! It's awesome! Don't pop CA+INC first thing, do the proper opening with Lunar first and CA right after. It's a general theme from your logs that you dont get the entire Lunar+CA duration within Inc during your openings.

I'm using the RPPM opener. Where you start in solar eclipse, pop CA and inc, when CA runs out you power through to lunar. It benefits from RPPM trinkets and the full duration of your pre pot in CA.

- - - Updated - - -

Like Zareth said, I'd advocate going for the 10289 haste breakpoint with your wealth of gear. You should see a good improvement with your DPS.

Logs:

• Jin'rokh: I had a look over a couple of your Jin'rokh kills and I saw a pattern with low NG uptime and relatively low damage for your gear. One log showed very low DPS(e) meaning you spent a good amount of time not doing anything at all - could this be during the Lightning Storm phase? If so, you have plenty of time to dodge and hard cast during that transition. Movement, a.k.a. periods of no damage, are hugely detrimental to our DPS and should be avoided at all times. 57% uptime on NG with your gear means almost 53 second cycle times - you should be doing more like 32 second cycles with the meta gem and the slight movement required for Jin'rokh. I can guarantee your lower DPS on that fight is due to slow cycling - you need to focus on hard casting and your rotation a lot more, for Jin'rokh at least.
• Council: see, you had 70% uptime for NG on a fight with ~2.5 targets on average, compared to 57% single-target. You cycled pretty well for Council, but your DoT uptime could've been a little better. Since Council is all about rolling DoTs and using your SS procs efficiently, it can be a little RNG and become a tradeoff between higher DoT uptime or higher SS proc waste. You featured ~93% uptime for your DoTs, and 46% SS proc waste. Your wastage is a little high for a 2.5 target average fight - for maximal DPS you'll need to react faster to your SS procs becoming available, but also managing your DoTs so that they're rolling 95%+ of the time. With higher DoT uptime comes more SS procs, so it feeds into each other very well.

Thank you as always slippy. You're fuckin awesome. I might bug you sometime soon with more logs.

[Deleted]

Hello everyone, I am posting on behalf of a friend of mine who recently rerolled from Guardian to Moonkin, and he is having some issues with the transition, was wondering if you guys could take a look and find out what it is, if anything he is doing wrong.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...8peen/advanced

Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/103208/

Thanks in advance. I believe he knows the theory behind moonkin dps'ing but I am not quite sure what he is doing wrong myself, so I am passing it over to you guys who are likely better at finding irregularities in logs than myself.

[Slippykins]

Thank you as always slippy. You're fuckin awesome. I might bug you sometime soon with more logs.

You're welcome! Feel free to post logs here or send them to me via PM whenever, I get a few people who do that. I even had someone who PM'd me on Youtube with logs haha.

Hello everyone, I am posting on behalf of a friend of mine who recently rerolled from Guardian to Moonkin, and he is having some issues with the transition, was wondering if you guys could take a look and find out what it is, if anything he is doing wrong.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...8peen/advanced

Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/103208/

Thanks in advance. I believe he knows the theory behind moonkin dps'ing but I am not quite sure what he is doing wrong myself, so I am passing it over to you guys who are likely better at finding irregularities in logs than myself.

Gear:

• He'll want to get rid of that Shado-pan trinket as soon as he can - it's pretty terrible for Boomkins. The best replacement would be Cha-Ye's, then Breath, and last would be UVLS.
• Since he's new to boomkin, I'd suggest he switch some of his crit for haste. It'll increase his steady DPS and lower the RNG that comes with SS proc overwrites, not to mention haste is stronger than crit if you keep crit at 5k rating or higher.
• He shouldn't use Nature's Vigil. HotW is going to be better at all points this tier, except in actual healing done. HotW+Tranq is a pretty strong cooldown though, and shouldn't be underestimated. Regardless, for DPS HotW will be better.

Logs:

• First off, I think it'd be a good idea if he reads the first post of this thread - it has some handy tips for looking at your own logs and understanding why you're not doing the DPS you think you should.
• I noticed he was casting Faerie Fire - if that's because another class can't bring it and you need the buff no problem, but he shouldn't be casting it otherwise. It's around a 3% DPS loss casting it every 30 seconds.
• Jin'rokh: NG uptime is low, resulting in ~44 second cycles. He got Focussed Lightning twice, but for his haste levels he should aim for around 36-38 second cycles really. 44 is too high, and will significantly hamper his DPS. Make sure he moves as little as possible, by moving to pool areas early (outside of the stun radius of course) or the edges of pools while dotting when he knows he needs to get out soon.
• Council: higher NG uptime than Jin'rokh (it really shouldn't be like that) of 77%. His DoT uptime was a little low for Council, but it's often hard to manage 4 targets at once. 38% SS proc waste isn't too bad for 4 targets, but his crit isn't that high. Overall I'd say he did well with his Starsurge procs, but his DoT management could be a little better. Council is all about managing your DoTs, using your SS procs, and cycling as quickly as you can inbetween.

[Min]

With regards to mutli targeting and FoN behavior. Do the treants still mess up if I dot all the necessary targets prior to summoning the treants? In addition, would hurricaning/storming multiple targets while treants are up cause it to target switch? Thanks!

[Bonsaii]

With regards to mutli targeting and FoN behavior. Do the treants still mess up if I dot all the necessary targets prior to summoning the treants? In addition, would hurricaning/storming multiple targets while treants are up cause it to target switch? Thanks!

The AI has been improving. I haven't had issues lately, but it probably still fucks up. I never hurricane so I wouldn't know.

[huth]

With regards to mutli targeting and FoN behavior. Do the treants still mess up if I dot all the necessary targets prior to summoning the treants? In addition, would hurricaning/storming multiple targets while treants are up cause it to target switch? Thanks!

They generally don't switch when you're not focusing on a target for a bit(~5s). They always start out attacking the target they were summoned on. It's still not perfect, but they at least behave consistently.

[land]

They generally don't switch when you're not focusing on a target for a bit(~5s). They always start out attacking the target they were summoned on. It's still not perfect, but they at least behave consistently.

They still seem to fail when I'm switching targets *and* moving. The treants stop casting to move with me (dumb imo in most cases) and when i stop moving they take quite some time to wake up and start casting again. All i gotta do is try no to pop em when I'm moving much, other than that they seem fine to me.

[Malarchy]

I think I need a little DPS help. *nod*

Here's some logs,

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ne/?enc=bosses

Four first bosses included and tries on Megaera.

My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...archy/advanced


Basically I'd just like any comments or advice on either my ability useage or my gear.. although I think the gear is pretty solid, bar changing a reforge on my cloak.

Any advice on how to track DoTs and their power, especially on multi-target fights would be nice. Currently using affdots and just a WA string to show my buffs under said addon.

The only thing I know for definate that's wrong is that I don't automatically stop casting and use SS procs, when they proc. I'm working on that. Again, any advice even on how to get used to that would be awesome.

Lastly, my UI.

i.imgur.com/XhSL0Bj.jpg


All in all, I know my DPS is sub-optimal and I really want to fix it.

(Moved here from a post by recommendation)

[Slippykins]

I think I need a little DPS help. *nod*

Here's some logs,

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ne/?enc=bosses

Four first bosses included and tries on Megaera.

My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...archy/advanced


Basically I'd just like any comments or advice on either my ability useage or my gear.. although I think the gear is pretty solid, bar changing a reforge on my cloak.

Any advice on how to track DoTs and their power, especially on multi-target fights would be nice. Currently using affdots and just a WA string to show my buffs under said addon.

The only thing I know for definate that's wrong is that I don't automatically stop casting and use SS procs, when they proc. I'm working on that. Again, any advice even on how to get used to that would be awesome.

Lastly, my UI.

i.imgur.com/XhSL0Bj.jpg


All in all, I know my DPS is sub-optimal and I really want to fix it.

(Moved here from a post by recommendation)

Gear:

• Can't see anything wrong to be honest. You have at least 10296 haste, stacking crit and not too much over the hit cap. Trinkets are good too.

Logs:

• Jin'rokh: For your gear and the length of the fight, 200k DPS is a little low. Going into your Player tab shows why - very low NG uptime. 57.5% NG uptime correlates to ~52 second cycles. For your haste, and having the legendary meta gem, your cycle times should be down at around 30-32 seconds maximum. Fight length will reduce that even more since you guys are killing it pretty quickly. I'd say almost all of your damage loss is due to that: slow cycling of eclipses. You'll benefit greatly by fixing that up, by reducing movement and hard casting more.
• Council: Council's another good one to look at because it's mostly static. Like a few other people I've looked at, your NG uptime for a ~2.5 target fight is higher than your uptime for Jin'rokh. Since you should be spending more time dotting and bloating your rotation, it leads that your NG uptime should be lower. Regardless, for this fight your two major problems were your DoT uptime and SS proc waste. DoT uptime was 76% on average between the two DoTs, and your SS proc waste (which you can find out in the OP) was ~43%. Since Council isn't really a 4 target fight, your SS proc waste is a little high. Council damage is almost all dependent on managing your DoTs and powering through your Starsurge procs. Make sure you're paying the most attention to those two mechanics for any fight with multi-targets.

[Liax]

Posting here to see if theres any room for improvement. Tips, anything can work, I just feel I'm not in a place I should be.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5n...erm2/rankinfo/ Logs for Tuesday clear, there are more there if you wanna look.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1qnwgrolpipw5les/ Logs for Wed Animus-Lei Shen.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ipfz0uwefshk3tsn/ - Lei Shen

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...reaver/Swiver/ - Armory.

Things I know I did wrong: Jikun, I died, Durumu I died to life drain cause of scumbag dps. I was top damage prior to my death though if you zoom in to before my death. animus I died to someone elses font, + my own.

Other than those things, I'm just curious as to ways I can improve myself as a player.

[Glurp]

for this fight your two major problems were your DoT uptime and SS proc waste. DoT uptime was 76% on average between the two DoTs

Someone told me on Council you should put your Eclipsed DoT on every target then cycle to next eclipse and repeat until there is only 2 targets left, then you do both dots on each target. Is this right or wrong?

[Slippykins]

Someone told me on Council you should put your Eclipsed DoT on every target then cycle to next eclipse and repeat until there is only 2 targets left, then you do both dots on each target. Is this right or wrong?

That doesn't sound very efficient at all - our nukes have a much lower DPET than even an uneclipsed DoT, so you should be following:

- apply eclipsed DoT to all targets
- use any SS procs available
- apply uneclipsed DoT to all targets
- if nothing else to do, hard cast

That should be the basic priority list. SS procs will only occur once you have some DoTs running, so that's why your eclipsed DoT spread is the most important. Having your DoTs rolling at all times is the most important - however, if you find yourself outside of an eclipse, I'd suggest casting one or two hard casts to get into the next eclipse. Besides that, dotting and SS procs are the bulk of the rotation for the majority of Council.

[jmcneil189]

Hi,

Just curious if I should regem and reforge to 3rd haste breakpoint, or if I should disregard doing so until I get rid of the valor trinket?

Can't link yet, but Jinthalas on Area 52

Thanks

[Pascal]

Hello, so, I've been playing balance for a long time, but I feel like I'm missing something this tier. I quit for two months right as ToT came out, but I finally got my gear back to an acceptable level. I've simmed myself to be at around 150k in a low movement fights, but I haven't used WrathCalcs. Last time I tried to use OpenOffice, it messed up my computer so I'm weary of it. I've been tanking frequently, ugh, so I don't have many logs. The best one I have right now would be our Twins and Lei Shen kill we just did tonight.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cq9rc6rz6zfyfa5a/

It's actually only my second Lei Shen kill and we wiped a million times because we had a pretty new group that had some trouble learning things, but most of my previous logs have me tanking.

My armory is in my signature, but at the risk of being redundant here it is: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ndrogyn/simple

I just last week went from the 5k breakpoint to the 10k, and I still have some noticeably awful pieces of gear.

Even the smallest critiques would be great. I'm guessing, too, maybe I should be doing the opener with CA at the start of the fight, due to my trinkets?

[Deleted]

Hello, so, I've been playing balance for a long time, but I feel like I'm missing something this tier. I quit for two months right as ToT came out, but I finally got my gear back to an acceptable level. I've simmed myself to be at around 150k in a low movement fights, but I haven't used WrathCalcs. Last time I tried to use OpenOffice, it messed up my computer so I'm weary of it. I've been tanking frequently, ugh, so I don't have many logs. The best one I have right now would be our Twins and Lei Shen kill we just did tonight.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cq9rc6rz6zfyfa5a/

It's actually only my second Lei Shen kill and we wiped a million times because we had a pretty new group that had some trouble learning things, but most of my previous logs have me tanking.

My armory is in my signature, but at the risk of being redundant here it is: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ndrogyn/simple

I just last week went from the 5k breakpoint to the 10k, and I still have some noticeably awful pieces of gear.

Even the smallest critiques would be great. I'm guessing, too, maybe I should be doing the opener with CA at the start of the fight, due to my trinkets?

IMO you're chasing the 10289 Haste breakpoint too early in that gear, I believe you would see a better return at the 2nd Haste point and going full Crit (yellow) Int/Crit (red) gem/reforges.

Starsurge is not your most damaging spell and even wrath is even out damaging your dot's, i'm not a log expert so don't know if this is because your letting them fall off/casting too many wraths or its just down to the fact your Crit is too low again IMO.

I'm sure a more knowledgable boomkin will be able to set you straight.

[land]

Hi,

Just curious if I should regem and reforge to 3rd haste breakpoint, or if I should disregard doing so until I get rid of the valor trinket?

Can't link yet, but Jinthalas on Area 52

Thanks

I wouldn't bother with the haste build till you get rid of that trinket, we'll that is assuming you have the legendary gem. If both ur gem and ur trinket procs and you are casting wrath, you will get "global'd".

- - - Updated - - -

Hello, so, I've been playing balance for a long time, but I feel like I'm missing something this tier. I quit for two months right as ToT came out, but I finally got my gear back to an acceptable level. I've simmed myself to be at around 150k in a low movement fights, but I haven't used WrathCalcs. Last time I tried to use OpenOffice, it messed up my computer so I'm weary of it. I've been tanking frequently, ugh, so I don't have many logs. The best one I have right now would be our Twins and Lei Shen kill we just did tonight.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cq9rc6rz6zfyfa5a/

It's actually only my second Lei Shen kill and we wiped a million times because we had a pretty new group that had some trouble learning things, but most of my previous logs have me tanking.

My armory is in my signature, but at the risk of being redundant here it is: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ndrogyn/simple

I just last week went from the 5k breakpoint to the 10k, and I still have some noticeably awful pieces of gear.

Even the smallest critiques would be great. I'm guessing, too, maybe I should be doing the opener with CA at the start of the fight, due to my trinkets?

Lol a 10 man with 4 druids? You should never die to raid damage, so many HotW tranq's

Looking at ur dps/gear, I would not go with the haste build yet because of your vp trinket. Look at your Twin logs and you will see that you had a lot of times where both Acceleration (your vp trinket) and Tempus Repit (Meta) both proc'd at the same time which will be a waste for sure if you are in solar doing wraths and might be even be a waste on lunar, not sure (don't remember the threshold). Didn't you notice a bunch of times you were global'd (i.e. waiting the gcd to finish so you could cast again)?

And yes, you should def be doing the CA opener - especially with the haste build and ur trinkets/meta.

Other than that I like your stuff: you got high NG uptime, decently high DOT times, low SS wastage. Pray to get a better trinket next week and do the CA opener and you should see a substantial improvement.

[Pascal]

IMO you're chasing the 10289 Haste breakpoint too early in that gear, I believe you would see a better return at the 2nd Haste point and going full Crit (yellow) Int/Crit (red) gem/reforges.

Starsurge is not your most damaging spell and even wrath is even out damaging your dot's, i'm not a log expert so don't know if this is because your letting them fall off/casting too many wraths or its just down to the fact your Crit is too low again IMO.

I'm sure a more knowledgable boomkin will be able to set you straight.

Lol a 10 man with 4 druids? You should never die to raid damage, so many HotW tranq's

Looking at ur dps/gear, I would not go with the haste build yet because of your vp trinket. Look at your Twin logs and you will see that you had a lot of times where both Acceleration (your vp trinket) and Tempus Repit (Meta) both proc'd at the same time which will be a waste for sure if you are in solar doing wraths and might be even be a waste on lunar, not sure (don't remember the threshold). Didn't you notice a bunch of times you were global'd (i.e. waiting the gcd to finish so you could cast again)?

And yes, you should def be doing the CA opener - especially with the haste build and ur trinkets/meta.

Other than that I like your stuff: you got high NG uptime, decently high DOT times, low SS wastage. Pray to get a better trinket next week and do the CA opener and you should see a substantial improvement.

Thank you, guys. I thought I was ready for the 10k breakpoint, but I have felt a noticeable sting in my SS procs. I got BotH on Thursday, went for the 10k breakpoint and noticed a very significant increase in damage, but maybe it was more the vast upgrade in the trinket rather than going up to the next breakpoint. I can certainly try going back, I miss the constant SS procs anyway. I definitely did notice 0.8 second wraths, even outside of bloodlust periods, so it would probably be best to go back to the 5k breakpoint.

I've been having bad luck replacing some of my gear - my VP trinket was coupled with a relic of yu'lon before I got BotH, so that's what I've been trying to work with. I definitely want to get rid of that VP trinket asap.

And, yes, the raid was not "official" and was made up of some interesting characters. You'll also note that our Lei Shen kill has some different players than the vast majority of other attempts. It wasn't an ideal night in any definition.


I do have an additional question about the CA opener: I read someone saying to use wrath during CA when using this opener, but shouldn't I just use starfire up until the point where my next cast would start pushing me toward lunar?

[Bawk]

I'd say a good reference point would be to make the switch when you can comfortably have the 10k haste bp and 9-10k+ crit at the same time. After I hit that, things felt a LOT smoother and my dps went up exponentially.