1. #1

    [Priest] What is the best tank healer?-My initial assessment. Let me know an opinion.

    My initial assessement on the priest is that Holy appeared initially to be for Tanking mainly since its Renew and generally single target healing is huge, however, since it also has a "mode" for AOE, I think what we have is:

    1. An "arcane", novel spec, Discipline, which can do both but it's a bit weird. I mean, it does healing in conservation while DPSing, how weird is that? [plus it heals in AOE by popping some automatic shields and other weird things like that]

    2. A traditional spec. It will do big healing on tanking and big healing on AOE, but, it needs some traditional "skills" [the switching [mechanism] from single target to aoe healing is technically 'weird' but practically once it's done healing returns to 'tradition']. e.g. It won't save you easily with popping a shield for a while. It will need your proper big heals with a rotation-ish.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by FemaleGoblinMage; 2011-10-06 at 12:58 PM.

  2. #2
    I have no idea what you want to discuss.
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  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    My initial assessement on the priest is that Holy appeared initially to be for Tanking mainly since its Renew and generally single target healing is huge, however, since it also has a "mode" for AOE, I think what we have is:

    1. An "arcane", novel spec, Discipline, which can do both but it's a bit weird. I mean, it does healing in conservation while DPSing, how weird is that? [plus it heals in AOE by popping some automatic shields and other weird things like that]

    2. A traditional spec. It will do big healing on tanking and big healing on AOE, but, it needs some traditional "skills" [the switching [mechanism] from single target to aoe healing is technically 'weird' but practically once it's done healing returns to 'tradition']. e.g. It won't save you easily with popping a shield for a while. It will need your proper big heals with a rotation-ish.

    What do you think?
    Well, it may seem like that when you look at the talent trees but in reality, it's completely different. Renew in the holy tree gets some nice buffs, the holy mastery seems nice and shiny and all but in the end, the +15% intell of the discipline tree AND the stacking Grace makes Discipline heals stronger on single target. Plus Divine Aegis is much better for that purpose as it is a shield, and therefore can never overheal (unless your tank avoids all damage for 15 secs, right).
    Plus Holy does not have a "rotation-ish", I assume you're talking about the Serendipity talent. I have actualy not been using it a lot since Cataclysme, since I basicaly stopped using Flash Heal. Still using binding when needed, but it doesn't really make any sort of rotation.

    I'm NOT saying holy is a bad spec for tank healing, or for healing in general. I've healed tanks as holy for a long time and had a lot of fun doing so, rolling renews and big Echo of Light, but the fact is that Discipline feels more comfortable for that job, and is actually better at it MOST of the time.

  5. #5
    If you're talking across the board, who's the best tank healer, it's going to be paladins. All of their tools excluding Holy Radiance are built around powerful single-target healing with the added element of beacon, allowing them to effetively heal 2 heavy damage targets at once. Even Light of Dawn, our primary AoE spell, has all of its individual heals copied to the beacon target.

    If you mean to ask which priest spec is optimal for tank healing, its actually going to be Discipline in most cases. Their AoE is a bit lackluster unless they can get very good PoM usage coupled with a lot of PoH spam, but that will OOM a disc priest pretty quickly if they have to sustain it. They are much better able to keep a series of large shields going on a tank through PW:S and Aegis.

    Holy on the other hand, although they do have a 'tank-healing mode', don't really have the tools to sustain the kind of heavy output needed by most raid encounters. Don't get me wrong, its possible, and I know good holy priests who have managed it, but it takes much more effort and resource management skill to keep that level of 1-target throughput up on a holy priest compared to a disc priest or paladin.

  6. #6
    progressing in hc modes you dont heal while dpsing really, so i wouldnt mention it while picking 'best tank healer'.

    not sure what the 'switching mechanism' is, assumed chakra stuff, but then you go with shield, so disc? or do you just mean switching finger position from above gheal button to above poh button?

    consider grace, sos, renewed hope, shields and da combined with empowered healing and divine fury, penance, borrowed time

  7. #7
    Pretty much any class can take the role of tank healer these days and the job isn't really that hard due to the health pools and migration but some classes / specs are better suited to other tasks.

    Holy for example is better for rolling hots and multi target aoe heals along with some single target heals, their chakra state allows them to get more from single target healing but its mainly for raid single target healing.

    Disc on the other hand is better at single target spike healing, now that's not just focusing on tank healing its single target healing on the raid, like for when huntard mac blind miss directs to him self and is about to get one shot Disc priests stand a higher chance at saving that player due to our damage migration, absorbs and strong single target heals.
    Last edited by CoolNitro; 2011-10-06 at 02:11 PM.

  8. #8
    I am pretty sure the question is meant to be between holy and disc priests.

  9. #9
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    Disc has a unique healing style in its usage of Absorbtion effects. However, unlike what you seem to be suggesting, it does not rely on only shields. For instance, a disc priest should not spam PW:S, but rather use it when a large amount of incoming damaging is, well, incoming. For instance, if an AoE ability is coming up, like say, Magma Trap, a Disc priest can quickly cast PoH on 2 groups (10 man) and have them all bubbled, reducing the damage that everyone takes. However, after the magma trap, thier AoE healing is weaker then thier counterpart, Holy Priests.
    For tank healing, Disc really have an advantage over other specs. They have a powerful cooldown, Pain Suppresion, which can be used on a tank that is taking heavy damage. PW:S can absorb a large amount of damage, 1-2 melee hits, thus greatly smoothing tank damage taken out. Grace adds a large amount of healing to targets healed by Disc's single-target heals, however, Grace is difficult to get on many targets. Disc has a decent crit chance on tank-type targets, and they recieve a decent benifit from crit. Greater Heal, a very mana-time efficient heal which is used on the tank quite often, has a very good synergy with Inner Focus, allowing for mana-free heals much more often that crit. In addition, a crit absorbs an additional 30% of the healing done, and on the tank who is tanking damage quit often, allows them to further smooth out damage spikes. Attonement isnt taken in every disc build, however, when taken, it will generally heal the tank. Finally, Archangel gives Disc greater ability on AoE healing, as a Disc priest can be healing through Attonement, and then pop Archangel for a decent boost during AoE.
    In conclusion, Disc is powerful single target, but weaker then other healers for AoE situation, akin to the paladin.

    Holy priests rely on pure healing throughput, with significantly better multi-target healing then Disc. For instance, while single-target healing, a holy priests will have 10% extra crit chance on all targets, compared to Discs 10% on 1-2 targets. Holy Priest's healing during single-target healing will also refresh Renew, thus allowing for excellent throughput on around 3 targets. Furthermore, Holy can have an additional 25% crit chance on one target for a few seconds, thus allowing for a quick topping of a single target, making them decent Tank healers. For Aoe healing, though, Holy Priests are more powerful then Disc priests. They can utilize Renew, which is decent for healing up after a AoE burst, and no healing is expected to be needed on the raid for a while after (Magma trap after nerf, players can dodge fire). If a large amount of AoE healing is needed, they can use Prayer of Healing, Sanctuary, and Circle of healing (Seeds phase on Ragnaros) for a huge amount of healing. Finally, Lightwell is an extremely powerful heal if used properly, and can be used in both AoE healing situations, and tank healing situations.

    In conclusion, Holy is more powerful in AoE healing, while Disc is more powerful in Single-target healing. However, both specs can fulfill either roll decently.
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  10. #10
    For all the reasons mentioned and more Disc is, in the very vast majority of cases, superior to holy in tank healing capacity. Holy can tank heal, but cannot sustain the same level of throughput as Disc w/ the same efficiency. It also really boils down to how important EH is to tanks, and Disc brings it in spades.

  11. #11
    Hands down Disc. 30k+ Shields and when Specced into SoS you take 4 Seconds off of Weakened soul so for every 3 Greater/flash heals you can shield again and with inner focus you get a free flash/greater heal. You also have another good single target heal with Penance. Grace which increases your healing on target and you also have Divine aegis for when your heals crit on the tank so even more shields to prevent damage. You also have Pain suppression and PW: Barrier(if it is not needed for group)

    Holy just feels weak when tank healing. yes you can do it but it is not the best spec for the job. You have a Cool down with Guardian Spirit but it isn't as reliable as it used to be. There are no preventative tools in this spec besides guardian spirit, so if a tank is gonna take an extra large hit or has more debuffs than he should be its more than likely hes gonna die if you holy than if your disc.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moopatti View Post
    Holy just feels weak when tank healing. yes you can do it but it is not the best spec for the job. You have a Cool down with Guardian Spirit but it isn't as reliable as it used to be. There are no preventative tools in this spec besides guardian spirit, so if a tank is gonna take an extra large hit or has more debuffs than he should be its more than likely hes gonna die if you holy than if your disc.
    Yup, this is exactly what I think too. I tank heal as Holy for Ragnaros 10 (with a pally), due to the increased mobility with B&S and lightwell, but it feels really backwards after the smoothness of Disc tank healing.

    However, I think while the absorbption is a nice and handy thing, what really boosts Disc tank healing is the synergy between PW:Shield, Gheal and Penance. Holy can put out some nice numbers, but it is lacking the synergy of the Dicipline tree and what is more; it is not nearly as efficient. That said, there are times when Holy has the advantage (for instance mobility and healing more on the move), but they are not that many and you have to rely on more "cheesy" mechanics to manage.

    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    For all the reasons mentioned and more Disc is, in the very vast majority of cases, superior to holy in tank healing capacity. Holy can tank heal, but cannot sustain the same level of throughput as Disc w/ the same efficiency. It also really boils down to how important EH is to tanks, and Disc brings it in spades.
    I think that is something people have a tendency to ignore, or just not understand: that EH is getting really important again and that discos bring this. It certainly felt for 25 man raiding that bringing a Disc for tank healing to compliment the paladin is almost a necessity due to the increased smoothness.
    Last edited by Laseen; 2011-10-07 at 07:47 AM.

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