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  1. #41
    Dreadlord
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    I'm wondering if we're going to see people respeccing right after a boss kill to get the bonus to their need roll on that one offspec item.
    Arguing with other internet users is just marginally more productive than counting the ants in your garden.

  2. #42
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnowo View Post
    Discussions are based on facts, not rumors and personal interpretation. There is nothing to "discuss" here...
    WRONG.

    Definition of DISCUSSION
    1
    : consideration of a question in open and usually informal debate
    2
    : a formal treatment of a topic in speech or writing

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discussion

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnowo View Post
    Oh look! It's time for more rumors, conspiracy, false information and ignorance, based on one single client text string...
    People sharing interpretations mate ? What is wrong with that ? People don't come away from this thread any smarter than they joined it. People firing up a thread before its even started = gheeeey :P

  4. #44
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazimir86 View Post
    WRONG.

    Definition of DISCUSSION
    1
    : consideration of a question in open and usually informal debate
    2
    : a formal treatment of a topic in speech or writing

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discussion
    Bash him all you want but he's not wrong. There's nothing to discuss because we know nothing. We know there may be some sort of system implemented at some point which may give you a bonus based on your spec when you roll need. You can't have a discussion when you don't know a single aspect of the thing you are trying to discuss.

    This thread is just going to end up being 10+ pages of everyone saying "what if, what if, what if" alongside the people who are already complaining about things like how much harder it will be to gear up off-specs or why do they let you queue for multiple specs if you can only roll on one, and a variety of other things that they seem to be assuming when we know nothing about the system.

    Its all pure conjecture and speculation. There's not a single fact that is known about it except that there is a string somewhere in there that may hint at something to be implemented at some point in the future in a way that has not been even hinted at by Blizzard. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with people wanting to share their thoughts on the possibility of a feature, but let's not pretend that its anything more than that.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Weerra View Post
    The cool system would be do a raid vote on whether or not allow offspecs.
    If the vote passes: everybody can roll for offspecs (whether or not there will be mainspec bonus)
    If doesn't: only for the spec you are in now.
    And it will also allow to see what you are getting into in relation to rolls.
    I think you miss-understood me. I'm not asking whether or not to allow OS rolling, but rather whether or not anyone else has needed the item. I'll always pass to MS, but with 25 people rolling on 5 pieces I'm not going to know whether anyone needs it for MS or not.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  6. #46
    Fluffy Kitten
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    Now, if only I could find a thread about people arguing what a discussion actually is . . . . . OH . . . . HEY!

    Anyways, any boost that is added to help spec specific pieces actually go to those specs, is a welcome addition by me. I'm leveling another alt and at least four times now, a plate DPS has ninja rolled need on the tank shoulders off of Drahga Shadowburner then dropped group. It really gets quite old.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness81 View Post
    Bash him all you want but he's not wrong. There's nothing to discuss because we know nothing. We know there may be some sort of system implemented at some point which may give you a bonus based on your spec when you roll need. You can't have a discussion when you don't know a single aspect of the thing you are trying to discuss.

    This thread is just going to end up being 10+ pages of everyone saying "what if, what if, what if" alongside the people who are already complaining about things like how much harder it will be to gear up off-specs or why do they let you queue for multiple specs if you can only roll on one, and a variety of other things that they seem to be assuming when we know nothing about the system.

    Its all pure conjecture and speculation. There's not a single fact that is known about it except that there is a string somewhere in there that may hint at something to be implemented at some point in the future in a way that has not been even hinted at by Blizzard. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with people wanting to share their thoughts on the possibility of a feature, but let's not pretend that its anything more than that.
    There is a perfectly good conversation going on here, discussing whether a system with a + bonus on rolls would be a good solution. Comments like this are driving the thread off-topic.

    Yes, it got sparked by assumptions, but the discussion of the system is real. When Blizz are thinking about possible loot solutions, such discussions are healthy.

    This thread is not full of "OMG BLIZZ ARE RUINING WOW", it is a sensible discussion about how well the system will work.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
    I think you miss-understood me. I'm not asking whether or not to allow OS rolling, but rather whether or not anyone else has needed the item. I'll always pass to MS, but with 25 people rolling on 5 pieces I'm not going to know whether anyone needs it for MS or not.
    I understood you, it's just that my thought turned out not so attached to the quote

    It's just an alternative to sitting around for half an hour establishing loot "rules" with no real power.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Weerra View Post
    I understood you, it's just that my thought turned out not so attached to the quote

    It's just an alternative to sitting around for half an hour establishing loot "rules" with no real power.
    Ah okay then. I would imagine that 90% the time people will vote no to off-spec rolling. You can guarantee it from every pure dps class for a start.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  10. #50
    I honestly dont think this will solve anything.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Xebu View Post
    I agree, I am sure this will only cause more people to roll "need" on offset pieces because "main spec rollers have roll bonus anyway
    I think it's a bit of a leap to assume that.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Xebu View Post
    What do you guys think of this? Will it solve the ninjaing problem?
    I think before we start assuming it might fix problems that we actually know what it does. For all we know it could add any number from 1 to whatever. Or it could not be implemented and just sitting in the code for whenever they want to finish it up. Until they make an announcement it would probably be easier to just wait than to speculate and people get their hopes up. Because like I said, it could just add 1 to your roll for all we know.

  13. #53
    One scenario I foresee being a potential issue:

    DPS1: "Hey, why is DPS2 only pulling 8k in DS?"
    DPS2: "I'm in tank gear, but trying to gear up my DPS Spec. I want the bonus to the roll"
    DPS1: "-.-; "

  14. #54
    Grunt Kohna's Avatar
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    I've never had a problem with ninja-looters or people who need unexpectadly, and even if they do so, it's never really bothered me.

    Whenever someones needed something for their offspec in the pugs i've done (Dungeons, not Raids) they've always asked before-hand if they may need on it for their Off-spec.

    Being aspergic, i don't fully understand the update, or what it intends to do (Following the quote posted in the OP) but i personally feel this won't change much, if anything for me.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFarm View Post
    I'm wondering if we're going to see people respeccing right after a boss kill to get the bonus to their need roll on that one offspec item.
    This would not work as it is based on the ROLE you selected when queuing (you cant change that), not what spec you are in.

    "Fell deeds awake! Now for wrath; now for ruin, and the red dawn!"

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness81 View Post
    You can't have a discussion when you don't know a single aspect of the thing you are trying to discuss.
    We both know that has never stopped the WoW community from wild and rampant speculation!

  17. #57
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
    it is a sensible discussion about how well the system will work.
    But how can there be a debate on how well the system will work when we don't know what the system is or where it will even be used? Like I said before, its all speculation, which is half of what is on these forums - and that's ok - but it can't go beyond that when we don't know 1 single fact about this "system" at all. Not one.

    My opinion is that, if they implement something like that string suggests, it will be a good thing and will help some of the concerns that people have about people rolling for OS and beating out MS rolls. It won't be perfect but there will never be a perfect system because people don't behave the same way or think others should behave the same way. I think it should be used only in LFR, not LFD, because there are way too many possible OS' in a LFR group, and because dungeons are for gearing up OS just as much as MS in my opinion. Then once you've geared up your OS enough you will have enough gear to perform that role in LFR and get gear for it if you want. Another interesting wrinkle with this possible system and LFR is that Blizzard has stated you only get to the chance at loot once per week with LFR but what if that was once per week per role you signed up for?
    Last edited by Wilderness; 2011-10-07 at 01:32 PM.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  18. #58
    The Patient paladinofcancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFarm View Post
    I'm wondering if we're going to see people respeccing right after a boss kill to get the bonus to their need roll on that one offspec item.
    I would assume that the bonus would only apply to whatever role you queued up as and were selected to be. Like, if a pally queued up as tank or dps and when queue popped was assigned to tank, hed only get the role bonus on tank gear cause thats the role he was assigned and is theoretically performing.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 08:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Edlarel View Post
    One scenario I foresee being a potential issue:

    DPS1: "Hey, why is DPS2 only pulling 8k in DS?"
    DPS2: "I'm in tank gear, but trying to gear up my DPS Spec. I want the bonus to the roll"
    DPS1: "-.-; "
    This is why vote to kick exists.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 08:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness81 View Post
    But how can there be a debate on how well the system will work when we don't know what the system is or where it will even be used? Like I said before, its all speculation, which is half of what is on these forums - and that's ok - but it can't go beyond that when we don't know 1 single fact about this "system" at all. Not one.

    My opinion is that, if they implement something like that string suggests, it will be a good thing and will help some of the concerns that people have about people rolling for OS and beating out MS rolls. It won't be perfect but there will never be a perfect system because people don't behave the same way or think others should behave the same way. I think it should be used only in LFR, not LFD, because there are way too many possible OS' in a LFR group, and because dungeons are for gearing up OS just as much as MS in my opinion. Then once you've geared up your OS enough you will have enough gear to perform that role in LFR and get gear for it if you want. Another interesting wrinkle with this possible system and LFR is that Blizzard has stated you only get to the chance at loot once per week with LFR but what if that was once per week per role you signed up for?
    There was a blue post saying that they were aware of concerns over LFR looting and considering some solutions. Then we see this string. Its a logical assumption that this is going to be some sort of LFR looting solution. We can speculate on exactly how it will work and then debate how well said speculated system(s) will work.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Xebu View Post
    What do you guys think of this? Will it solve the ninjaing problem?
    The problems with this is that its a solution for an issue that really doesn't exist.

    Everyone in the group put in the time and effort to defeat the boss and there are mechanisms already in place to stop people rolling on gear they can't use.

    The big question is whether taking part in a run as a certain role entitles you to any gear that drops for that role over and above anyone else who wants the gear and can use the gear.

    The existing solution is fair to those who decide that by taking part in the run and putting in the same amount of time and effort as other players, they are entitled to the same chance at the loot.

    The existing solution is unfair to those who decide that by taking part in the run and filling a certain role gives you the fight of first choice on any loot you decide is fit for your role.

    As it is, the convention that running a certain spec entitles you to the gear for that role makes sense when you are running as part of an established group. Gearing up one player first is often better than trying to gear multiple players.

    The convention falls apart within PuGs where there are no rules and no established groups. A DPS looking to gear up a tanking off spec has little or no hope of collecting the gear he needs because the tank he runs with this week will be replaced by another the next, yet another the next, and so on. Nor is "get a group together" an answer - if it were, he wouldn't need the LFR system.

    Biasing the roll in favour of a spec also potentially opens the system up to abuse.

    Overall....I'm leaning towards the opinion that biasing the roll is a bad decision to a problem that eixsts only because people want to hang onto a certain game convention.

    EJL

  20. #60
    The Patient paladinofcancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The convention falls apart within PuGs where there are no rules and no established groups. A DPS looking to gear up a tanking off spec has little or no hope of collecting the gear he needs because the tank he runs with this week will be replaced by another the next, yet another the next, and so on. Nor is "get a group together" an answer - if it were, he wouldn't need the LFR system.
    EJL
    A DPS looking to gear up a tanking off spec should go run Hour of Twilight heroics to get tank gear and then step into Dragon Soul LFR as a tank. Tanking (or healing) is a more stressful job than DPS, the weight of the raid essentially falls on your shoulders, and to have your tanking upgrades equally available to the guy sitting 17th on the recount is crap.

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