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  1. #161
    Feral Druid will be a mess, could be a tank or a dps. Unless they use the system Puri described.

    If a Feral Druid selects role of Tank then a flag for Feral Tank on tanking gear will let him roll on it. But if he selects dps he will be flagged as Feral DPS and not be able to roll on that same piece of tanking gear.

    This same way a Shadow Priest can be allowed to roll on spirit gear. But this will create alot of "Roles" where some would need to get specially tagged to certain items. And it wouldnt surprise me one bit some items will be forgotten. So i still think loot will be a mess, and loot drama is raid killer nr.#1.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    No, because it says it will look at "class role" and not only "role". So they can obviously flag items as "DK TANK" and "WARRIOR TANK".

    The only problem I see is the druid class:
    A druid that entered the dungeon as DPS could either be a moonkin or a kitty. So he will be able to roll on agi and int items, competing with all healers, casters, enhancer, rogues, hunters and even feral tanks.
    This could be very easily solved by implementing a "hidden" check for damage dealers. Imagine if when accepting the role check as damage, the system looks at your base stats and decides you are either a "caster dps" or a "physical dps" by seeing if you're stacking INT or not. So there would actually be 4 roles in the system, but only 3 visible to players.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The implication being that YOU know what you are doing. Which may or may not be true. There are bad DPS out there, thats true. But attitudes like yours aren't really desireable either.
    In all honesty, I'd rather have a DPS pulling 6k in full 391/397 gear than have someone with Airwaves' attitude and god complex in my raid at any time. Nothing brings down a raid like a player spouting bullshit all night long.

    On topic: This is a very good thing. DPS gear would have been taken by healers/tanks a lot more than healing/tank gear taken by DPS and this new roll system fixes it. Hopefully it's applied to 5 mans in the near future.
    LOLINFRACTED

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by paladinofcancer View Post
    I don't think clothies will be able to roll on anything. Why would a mage or warlock get to roll on +spirit gear? Shadow priests, like druids and shamans in dps will be able to roll on anything in their armor type, but disc and holy if queued as healers will be restricted to spirit cloth, and mages and locks restricted to cloth with two secondary stats (spirit is sort of a secondary stat these days but its still one of the 5 base stats).
    They can't restrict holy/disc on only spirit gear. Heck, just look at Firelands itemization. With that restriction holy/disc wouldn't be able to get cloak, bracers, belt, boots or ring. Plus using non-spirit gear is perfectly valid as disc/holy.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by ransalad View Post
    If a tank ninja's a tanking chest when he's already wearing something better, he can just get kicked from the group by the other players. While the tank himself won't suffer too much from re-queuing, it's still time lost compared to simply passing/greeding on loot he does not need. Same goes for healers and DPSers needing on stuff when they're already wearing better stuff.

    There's only 1 thing this system might change if it goes live, and that's allowing players to roll need for off-spec items without having to wait on the MS players to pass/greed the items and politely asking first. Though that means we'll get even less pug interaction during LFD runs.

    Of course, that means +100 role bonus would be necessary.
    but who's to say my current chest ect is better. Lets say for a second i have a 391 ring with Expertise/Dodge. And a lower ilvl ring lets say 378 dunno what the LFR ilevel is but just for the sake of arguement. Now this ring had dodge/mastery. Who are you to tell me my 391 is better? See the problem

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by candlepally View Post
    but who's to say my current chest ect is better. Lets say for a second i have a 391 ring with Expertise/Dodge. And a lower ilvl ring lets say 378 dunno what the LFR ilevel is but just for the sake of arguement. Now this ring had dodge/mastery. Who are you to tell me my 391 is better? See the problem
    then its your duty to the group to explain why it is an upgrade for you and convince them to let you have your roll. This isn't any different from how it works on LFD atm.

  7. #167
    I think it's the best an automated system is going to get.

    All these things about stat weights and whether or not mastery is better than expertise cannot be factored into the system as its completely a subjective opinion which is usually handled by raid leaders.

    The best Blizz can do is flag certain items with particular stats as DPS, DPS/HEALER, DPS/TANK, TANK, HEALER and whoever is in whatever particular role can roll for the item but the mainspec (the role you get picked by lfr) will be prioritised.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by paladinofcancer View Post
    VPDKP would result in whoever grinded to the valor cap every week would get an advantage in loot rolls, which is WAY less fair than giving people who are performing a role for you in a raid get a priority on gear that will help them perform their role better.
    And?

    That is the MS>OS argument yet again and it is still a subjective matter over whether it is fairer to deny rewards to those who took part in the kill to allow those who filled a certain role to get that roles gear more quickly or vice versa.

    VPDKP would alllow those who take part in the game to spend those points to boost the roll for gear they really want. If you are concerned about an ability to grind, then you could introduce specific points, or give each character a set numer of boosts per tier. Or one boost per week, or whatever.

    Personally- I'll freely admit I tend to look on the downside on such systems. I don't go "Weeee!!!! No more DPS taking my tanking gear!!!!!". I go "How will this be abused"....and it WILL be abused. Add in the problems differentiating between gear for various roles making the entire process arbitrary and subjective, the reduced need to even consider gearing choices - if I can reoll, I should equip it - and the other issues various players have mentioned and I'm currently far from convinced this system will be good for the game, let alone needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    No, because it says it will look at "class role" and not only "role". So they can obviously flag items as "DK TANK" and "WARRIOR TANK".
    OTOH, he did say "class role"...which is usually just the role a class performs. Tank or DPS or heal. He didn't say "Class and Role" for example. And the current system already puts various class checks into place already.

    I'd guess the bonus applies only to the role.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2011-10-11 at 03:01 AM.

  9. #169
    This just makes the system MS>OS>AH-Vendor-DE. Same as most Pugs are anyway. As long as the system says 'lol you already have this no rolling.'

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by LiviDEE View Post
    This just makes the system MS>OS>AH-Vendor-DE. Same as most Pugs are anyway. As long as the system says 'lol you already have this no rolling.'
    except for items that are tank but with decent dps stats eg

    items with mastery+exp/hit with a stamina gem bonus would be classed as tank. however dps classes who like mastery would also want to "need" on this item but wouldn't gain the 100 bonus even though it's a legit claim and while it wouldn't be BiS for them it could easily be top 5 and so a worthy uprade from their firelands normal/heroic 5 man item.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    OTOH, he did say "class role"...which is usually just the role a class performs. Tank or DPS or heal. He didn't say "Class and Role" for example. And the current system already puts various class checks into place already.
    Yeah I guess Blizzard's quote is open to interpretation. But they did say the system will not look at your spec. And isn't class+role more or less the same as spec? Who knows what they really meant. In any case, like I said I am sure they will have special rules for 2h weapons. And my guess is that agility leather will get the role bonus from druid tanks as well as leather-wearing dps.
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Nope.You're giving a lot too much thoughts into this system. Players will get a role check before entering the instance and will either be "tank", "heal", or "dps". Just like in 5-mans.

    Items will be flagged for either "tank", "heal", or "dps" and makes no distinction between specs.

    Case1: 2H weapon drops and is flagged for DPS only. Blood DKs cannot roll on it.
    Case2: 2H weapon drops and is flagged for both tank and DPS. Protection Warrior can roll on it.

    It makes absolutely 0 distinction between specs.
    Ok, yeah.
    That can happen. Str weapons are up top on screwed up order.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-12 at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    If the system is working as described, my role is tank and the agi piece that drops is more than likely going to be flagged as dps gear. That is the issue. So it's either going to default to me as the druid tank or default to the dps, or it's going to be an even roll across the board in which case why have the system in place at all? Same thing applies to hybrid casters in the case of spirit gear and DK tanks vs plate dps in the case of 2h strength weapons. There are going to be so many situations where two different roles compete for the same gear that the fair solution is to simply /roll and there is no point to their loot system.
    It helps in SOME cases. That's better than nothing.
    Screw-up in other places doesn't make things bad enough to outweigh it.

  13. #173
    The Patient
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    it seems like a good idea for the raid finder,
    so long as - for example,
    I join on my mainspec prot / offspec ret pally, there are two other tanks who really want to tank, so I go ret, but I choose 'tank' for my role,
    this should allow me to roll against the other tanks on tank gear, but excludes me from rolling on dps gear against the other str dps players.

    so long as that is allowed, then I'm fine with it.

  14. #174
    from the other loot rules thread:

    the REAL kicker is for druids.

    whereby you can pretty much roll on anything if ur in the DPS role.

    because being in the DPS role does not differentiate between boomkin and feralcat.

    boomkin share almost identical gear with trees (cept trinkets), same with cats sharing same gear with bears......

    sooooooo: tree = (boomkin = cat) = bear

    O_O

    heres the loop of doom:
    >>>>feralcat mainspec(+100) rolling on tree spirit gear since its the same gear as boomkin which is the same role as feralcat<<<<

    so a DPS druid, will be able to roll on ALL forms of leather and pretty much all offset pieces except trinkets as far as i can tell.....

    same with enhancement getting to roll on spirit mail since ele shares gear with resto

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