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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestle View Post
    The fact that your slapped with your role before you even enter the Raid instance and that you cannot change it once you have entered. This is for the raid finder and once you are put in a certain role, you cannot change that role unless you requeue for the instance.

    OT: I am interested as to what they do for the spirit to hit conversion factors. I'm pretty sure it will be safe to assume that they will have it that both healers and dps of that specific class can roll on the item and will get the +100 to their roll.

    Another good question would be how to differentiate between a piece of plate gear that has say +hit and +mastery. Will it be seen as a tank item or dps item? I know the differences in STR and STA will come into play but I am just intrigued. And the whole bear/kitty argument is solved with the fact that there is no tanking leather or tanking polearms. I'm curious to see if they allow bears to roll on the STR rings/cloaks/necks that have dodge/mastery to use as a tank piece.

    All-in-all, this is definitely a fantastic idea and basically only applies to tank gear/holy pally/healing trinkets, but is definitely a fantastic thing to see and is making me consider doing the raid finder to gear up my alts!
    Blizzard drastically nerfed STR for feral druids a few patches ago.. I highly doubt they would give them the bonus 100 after basically already eliminating it as a viable option.

    There are a lot of grey areas.. my guess is they are going to be as forgiving as possible with the items. But I wonder how precise they are going to be. Are they going to actually look at specs.. spriests get bonus 100 for spirit gear, but mages don´t? How about kitty dps getting bonus100 on moonkin gear (both in a dps role).. will mages get bonus100 on all cloth gear and healers not unless it has spirit?

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post

    The biggest issue I can see is for the Spirit gear, some times its BIS for both healers and DPS. If both get the +100 roll for their MS, then it's no different than LFD at the moment
    How is that an issue then? Anyone who make an issue out of is would be someone of limited intelligence.

    The problem I see is what does it mean when they say "Currently Assigned Role".

    Does than mean you can change your role during the raid?

  3. #203

  4. #204
    I guess Blizzard will have to end up flagging items for specs rather than just roles for this system to be successful. There is too many problems for feral druids, spirit cloth wearers and death knight weapons. If it was role based I could go in as enhancement shaman and get to roll need+100 for all gears that my spec and off-spec could use.. considering a dps shaman can be either elemental or enhancement.

    If this system does not work with specs it will just be unfair to some classes. I wouldn't think I want to bring my restoration shaman if my off-spec is enhancement, I could just go as enhancement and get all the loots than just half of what I could use. Same with druids, I just go as dps and I then should be able to gear up a boomkin, resto and feral spec with need+100 with just the single role I signed up for.

    Heck this system would make it even easier for me to get gears as a shaman (for example) than how it is today in most pugs.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 07:55 PM ----------

    Does than mean you can change your role during the raid?
    I suspect you change role if the raid signs up again to get more people for a raid or something like that. Probably will work much the same as it does with 5-mans today.

  5. #205
    Brewmaster Alayea's Avatar
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    A decent solution, but it won't stop jerks from rolling need on something that they already have (or wearing better) if it's MS. I've had this happen on occasion in LFD, so I'm not expecting anything different from LFR.
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  6. #206
    Keyboard Turner
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    how will this system work with rouges and feral tanks when we both have the same gear will we both get the bonus or not?

  7. #207
    this sounds like a pretty good idea, though i can still see some drama over items that have stats valued by more than one role. but at least it's a step in the right direction in keeping dps from stealing tank loot, and other such situations.

  8. #208
    there are goign to be SOOOO many QQ tears from all the greedy little pricks that feel entitled to rolling on anything they want

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by frag971 View Post
    So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?
    You can't change your role after you queue for a raid or dungeon, unless someone leaves and you have to requeue.

  10. #210
    Dreadlord Geekissexy's Avatar
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    I like this idea, a lot

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Blizzard drastically nerfed STR for feral druids a few patches ago.. I highly doubt they would give them the bonus 100 after basically already eliminating it as a viable option.

    There are a lot of grey areas.. my guess is they are going to be as forgiving as possible with the items. But I wonder how precise they are going to be. Are they going to actually look at specs.. spriests get bonus 100 for spirit gear, but mages don´t? How about kitty dps getting bonus100 on moonkin gear (both in a dps role).. will mages get bonus100 on all cloth gear and healers not unless it has spirit?
    With spirit, it will probably give bonuses to classes whose spec can either use it to heal, or convert spirit into hit for DPS, both of which Warlocks and Mages cannot.

    I doubt dps will get a bonus to rolls if the gear doesn't have spirit on it, though they probably will get the bonus if the gear has +hit on it.
    Last edited by Jagstang; 2011-10-07 at 07:02 PM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagstang View Post
    With spirit, it will probably give bonuses to classes whose spec can either use it to heal, or convert spirit into hit for DPS, both of which Warlocks and Mages cannot.
    i thought one of the mage armor buffs converted spirit to spell power or something?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    i thought one of the mage armor buffs converted spirit to spell power or something?
    You would have to ask a mage.

  14. #214
    I like this idea. I hate going into a random and having some ass roll need on something for off-spec when myself or someone else needs it for main. At least when I decide to raid on my alts, they won't get screwed over by OS-needing pricks. (I do not mind when people ask if it's okay, but don't just need on the damn thing)

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diasteel View Post
    how will this system work with rouges and feral tanks when we both have the same gear will we both get the bonus or not?
    Answered here:

    some items are flagged for more than one class role
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Alayea View Post
    A decent solution, but it won't stop jerks from rolling need on something that they already have (or wearing better) if it's MS. I've had this happen on occasion in LFD, so I'm not expecting anything different from LFR.
    very true,but you still cut down a large amount of jerks/ninja.
    +1 for the idea,too bad it took them(blizz) so long to come up with something like this,though I'm pretty sure I've seen the idea before,posted by a player/forum writer.

  17. #217
    Mechagnome helheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagstang View Post
    With spirit, it will probably give bonuses to classes whose spec can either use it to heal, or convert spirit into hit for DPS, both of which Warlocks and Mages cannot.
    from blizzard: "Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec." so this argument is invalid. spec isn't factored in. 397 ivl stats > 359 ilvl stats. as such, a mage could see a spirit item as a huge upgrade, if only to reforge the spirit to hit.
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  18. #218
    More and more gear will have to be flagged as Unique to keep douche bag tanks from needing on it even when they have it already just to sell it. Wont stop the ones that have better doing it, but not much can be done about that I guess.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    i thought one of the mage armor buffs converted spirit to spell power or something?
    Molten Armor used to convert a spirit percentage into critical strike rating, it changed when 4.0 went live. So mages don't need spirit anymore and probably never will again.

    Other than that, cool idea for Raid Finder.

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  20. #220
    It's better than not doing anything, that's for sure. However, unless we see updates to how Blizzard flags loot, it's only going to highlight Blizzard's failures in that area.

    Currently, as a rogue, I can roll need on some strength items, trinkets and weapons generally. Theoretically, in this system, I can roll need as a DPS on a strength DPS trinket and have a guarantee to win it over a warrior/pally/dk tank who could actually use it as an off-spec as opposed to just being vendor trash for me. Same with spirit and mages. A mage can win spirit gear over a pally or druid tank, as many spirit items will be flagged as both DPS and healer items. Once again, vendor trash (and seriously sub-optimal gear) will win over somebody who could legitimately use the item as an off-spec.

    Additionally, shamans and druids present another issue. Boomkins rolling on agility leather rolling on equal playing field to rogues and ferals, ele shammies rolling on hunter and enhance loot. This is a problem that exists now, of course, but the role feature just highlights it. Further, you can't separate it into melee and ranged DPS because agility mail is used by both, as are agility rings, trinkets, necks etc.

    Once again, it's better than nothing, but it's not as good a step as the loot system detecting your current spec and off-spec and opening up MS Need and OS Need based on those instead. And they really need to revisit their flagging system, anyway.

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