Raid Finder Loot Rules Update

[paloalto]

I don´t think any bear tank could consider it getting screwed over to lose a piece of leather armor to a rogue on a fair roll. What we don´t want to see is a bear tank losing a leather AGI piece too a restro druid, which this will prevent. I would be a little ´iffed´ if I lost an AGI staff to a hunter, but that is a minor thing. The much bigger issue is we won´t be losing dodge gear to undergeared hunters and rogues anymore.

What dodge items are you losing? Dodge was removed from most feral gear a while ago. You get it from agility, reforge and gem.

[Holyground]

So what prevents having all fury, cats, retris and frostDKs to select tanking role just before the pull and have +100 on that last item they want from that specific boss?

This isn't like a raid where you do a role check.

this is like the LDF where you queue as a specific role (or roles, I guess) and enter the raid as a specific role. so 2 tanks, 17 dps, and 6 healers.

[Deleted]

For god's sake.. FINALLY!!! I've wanted them to implement something like this for fucking ever.... (well, mainly since a goddamn tank stole my caster dps item I tried to get for weeks) and I really don't see why it has taken them this long. Stuff with Spirit is obviously (now, that finally removed it from e.g. mages) intended for healers or healer-hybrids, they should get a /roll bonus for that. Stuff with dodge, parry etc. is obviously intended for tanks, it makes not goddamn sense for someone to be able to "steal" it from a tank. Stuff with hit is obviously intended for dps, no tank or healer should be able to steal it from a dps. Factor in armor classes and the fact that we now have a role check, that they can just make mandatory and we should be set. Seeing as they don't differentiate between specs stuff like heal priests vs dps priests can still be an issue but that shouldn't be that hard to implement either, you can't change speccs during the fight the item drops in so if you're shadow you won't get this role bonus on e.g. spirit stuff. "Why does everyone automatically think someone rolling for their offspec is a ninja/jerk?" Because it fucking is. If there is no one of that specific class/role needing on the item, go for it, it's fine. But if a tank needs a tank item and a plate dps/healer also needs, because they can, and they win? Yeah, that's not ok.

Goddammit, why does it turn every post recently into a wall of text, just removing my line breaks..

[Stevoman]

This is the best computerized system we can hope for. The finer points (things like polearms going to druids before hunters, and bows going to hunters before rogues) are things that nothing short of human communication and interaction can resolve. At least the system will stop 99% of gear swiping (mages taking spirit, fury warriors taking dodge, etc.), and that's already a success in my book.

The only real point of concern/possible abuse is shadow priests, as they can use cloth hit (mages/warlock gear) and cloth spirit (holy/disc gear). All the rest are really easy to figure out.

[Niteynite]

Tough.

You can start out like everyone else in that case and work your way up with gear as you tank, thus earning your gear not expecting to get it by performing another role.

I helped you down that boss, then I'm going to need on the gear, main spec or not. Why should I pass up on loot just I'm not in that current spec? Yeah, you may be in the role that item calls for, but I'm going to use that spec at some point anyways. Why was there a problem in the first place when we were rolled against in the first place? It's not like I just denied you the item when you asked for it. We both rolled, sometimes you win, sometimes I do.

Seriously Blizz, I had hope for the Raid Finder until this.

[Seref]

My main spec is Tanking, but I usually queue as dps because I'm undergeared (Which would be the case for Dragon Soul raids) or just feeling lazy...

I think "+100" is a little too drastic, I say it should be "+51".

[Deleted]

guess i was right about the +100 bonus :P

[Tharkkun]

how will this system work with rouges and feral tanks when we both have the same gear will we both get the bonus or not?

Should be equal in that case. A feral tank would benefit from the item for their mainspec just as much as a rogue would for dps. Now if a resto druid rolled need and a feral tank rolled need then it should receive the bonus if it's flagged properly.

[helheim]

Why does everyone automatically think someone rolling for their offspec is a ninja/jerk?

All this will do is push geared and competent tanks into a dps role, where their gear is severely lacking, and geared and competent dps into a tanking role, where their gear is severely lacking.

Instead of queuing with your best geared spec you play the best at, it's queue up in your under geared, under performing other spec, cause some cry baby qq'd enough on the forums, never realizing what they were crying about.

You will see these same cry babies crying about bad tanks/healers queuing in dps gear, and bad dps, queuing in tank/healing gear.

---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 12:13 PM ----------



I am not arguing..... Please try to be original and not regurgitate some tired phrase you saw on 4chan seven months ago.

blow me? wtf does 4chan have anything to do with my argument? the point remains valid: resto droods/shaman, shadow/disc/holy priests, warlocks, mages, holy pallys and boomkins are all going to compete for loot in a system that is inherently flawed. if you are too lazy to go back and read what else i wrote, that isn't my problem. throwing insults because you think you are clever? gg.

[isendims]

I helped you down that boss, then I'm going to need on the gear, main spec or not. Why should I pass up on loot just I'm not in that current spec? Yeah, you may be in the role that item calls for, but I'm going to use that spec at some point anyways. Why was there a problem in the first place when we were rolled against in the first place? It's not like I just denied you the item when you asked for it. We both rolled, sometimes you win, sometimes I do.

Seriously Blizz, I had hope for the Raid Finder until this.

What your describing is the exact reason why this is implemented and why so many people wanted it. I was hoping for a Need, Offspec, Greed, DE buttons but this works perfectly fine. If people are not doing that role in that fight they should not have any reason to take the item from those that are performing the roll of the item that dropped. If a person wants a tank piece, or wants a healing piece, they sure better be doing those roles when it drops. Some people tank for the queue, some people tank for fun, some people tank just so we can get things rolling. If they're willing to sacrifice some enjoyment to get the tank items so can other people(same applies to dps and healers)

[Moozart]

I helped you down that boss, then I'm going to need on the gear, main spec or not. Why should I pass up on loot just I'm not in that current spec? Yeah, you may be in the role that item calls for, but I'm going to use that spec at some point anyways. Why was there a problem in the first place when we were rolled against in the first place? It's not like I just denied you the item when you asked for it. We both rolled, sometimes you win, sometimes I do.

Seriously Blizz, I had hope for the Raid Finder until this.

want tank gear? Q as a tank and do what the tank did in order for that boss to die. You want someone else to fufill the roll and you take gear they have more right too? if you helped kill that boss a sa dps that that is what you have ample right to get , dps gear. this system is being made ebcasue of greedy Aholes like you.

[Keile]

Love these changes. Means even if a tank rolls a NEED of 1, and a DPS rolls a NEED of 100, the tank wins and gets their tank item.... *offers Blizzard many cookies and pies out of gratitude)

My main spec is Tanking, but I usually queue as dps because I'm undergeared (Which would be the case for Dragon Soul raids) or just feeling lazy... I think "+100" is a little too drastic, I say it should be "+51".

Run the 5man heroics, get ilevel 378 gear. Problem solved for the undergearedness.

[Azrile]

this sounds like a pretty good idea, though i can still see some drama over items that have stats valued by more than one role. but at least it's a step in the right direction in keeping dps from stealing tank loot, and other such situations.

I think that is what everyone has to remember.. at the very worst, this system will be exactly what we have now if an item is confusing to classify. For most items, it will probably be much better... but for some items, it will be the same as now.

[Deleted]

Having said that, the mindset that only cloth with spirit is priest healer gear (and cloth with no spirit is never priest healer gear) is a mindset to be resisted.


Blue post made concerning the priest FL loot tables bollocks.


First the return of spirit gear and now these new loot rules. Goes to show the utter BS they were talking at the time.

[Gray_Matter]

It's better than not doing anything, that's for sure. However, unless we see updates to how Blizzard flags loot, it's only going to highlight Blizzard's failures in that area.

Currently, as a rogue, I can roll need on some strength items, trinkets and weapons generally. Theoretically, in this system, I can roll need as a DPS on a strength DPS trinket and have a guarantee to win it over a warrior/pally/dk tank who could actually use it as an off-spec as opposed to just being vendor trash for me. Same with spirit and mages. A mage can win spirit gear over a pally or druid tank, as many spirit items will be flagged as both DPS and healer items. Once again, vendor trash (and seriously sub-optimal gear) will win over somebody who could legitimately use the item as an off-spec.

Additionally, shamans and druids present another issue. Boomkins rolling on agility leather rolling on equal playing field to rogues and ferals, ele shammies rolling on hunter and enhance loot. This is a problem that exists now, of course, but the role feature just highlights it. Further, you can't separate it into melee and ranged DPS because agility mail is used by both, as are agility rings, trinkets, necks etc.

Once again, it's better than nothing, but it's not as good a step as the loot system detecting your current spec and off-spec and opening up MS Need and OS Need based on those instead. And they really need to revisit their flagging system, anyway.

I would like them to tag items with your primary stat (agi = enh, feral & int = boom, elem, etc)

[toddiuszho]

YESSSSS! I remember all the drama over Tyrannical Beheader from Tyrannus in Pit of Saron. I lost the roll SEVEN TIMES to uppity azzhat non-bear tanks and Holy Paladins with a false sense of entitlement. I purposely let myself suffer a longer queue time as DPS so I could have higher priority over that 2H axe. Faster than I could plead my case in a civil manner to please pass to me, they would just leave party, often with an unwarranted insult to me first. Whenever I would queue as a Holy Paladin for a faster queue time, if a DPS needed that axe, I'd pass to him. I just couldn't stoop to the level of all the belligerent and greedy tanks and healers who ousted me.This change is the best news from Blizzard in a very, very long time. Now all they need is Offspec rolls having a higher priority than Sell/Disenchant.

[Skippy88]

Still needs a few tweaks but overall good job Blizzard.

[volwratth]

I think you should choose two options when you que. What you are geared for and best at doing, ie: your role.. and what gear you want to roll for. You choose and must stick to your role and what you want before you join the raid and must stick to it. This way say I am a super geared healer i can join in as a healer and do what I am best at but I can choose to just role for dps gear because I want dps gear and do not need healing gear. So this way I do not join in as a dps and be bad at it because I do not have proper dps gear and suck for the whole run.

[Azrile]

This is the best computerized system we can hope for. The finer points (things like polearms going to druids before hunters, and bows going to hunters before rogues) are things that nothing short of human communication and interaction can resolve. At least the system will stop 99% of gear swiping (mages taking spirit, fury warriors taking dodge, etc.), and that's already a success in my book.

The only real point of concern/possible abuse is shadow priests, as they can use cloth hit (mages/warlock gear) and cloth spirit (holy/disc gear). All the rest are really easy to figure out.

my guess is spirit gear will be marked dps too. They already said that they are not going to be checking specs, just roles. Moonkin, Ellies and spriests would have a hard time if they don´t mark spirit gear as dps. They will take the more liberal approach and allow mages and locks the bonus100 on spirit gear rather than locking moonkin, spriests and ellies away from spirit gear (by making it healer only)

[Marthisdil]

I helped you down that boss, then I'm going to need on the gear, main spec or not. Why should I pass up on loot just I'm not in that current spec? Yeah, you may be in the role that item calls for, but I'm going to use that spec at some point anyways. Why was there a problem in the first place when we were rolled against in the first place? It's not like I just denied you the item when you asked for it. We both rolled, sometimes you win, sometimes I do.

Seriously Blizz, I had hope for the Raid Finder until this.

You go ahead and roll need. If you are an arms warrior, thus, set as a dps role when you signed up for the raid finder, you could roll 100 on a need roll and still lose if any of the tanks are plate wearers and roll need, too.

The only problems I see will be those who queue as a role (say you as an arms warrior signing up as a tank) that they are not geared to do and getting pulled along/tanking sucky, etc....but I would imagine the raid would kick you shortly after discovery.