(Dis)enchanters, need and greed rolls. Solution?

[Sanctioned]

The one thing I would like to see implemented is. Say at the beginning of an expansion they disable the Disenchant option. Not for long or anything, but just for a short time that would allow the enchanter to be able to gather mats easier for themselves to level their profession. I don't think that would be unreasonable.

[Spl4sh3r]

I don't really get why people are upset about this and then drag in Skinning, Mining and such. First of all Enchanting is not a gathering profession they get their mats from destroying other items that are uncommon or higher in quality. To allow more people than the enchanter to roll on disenchant doesn't remove the Enchanters ability to enchant gear. However if you were to allow other people to roll on skins that a Skinner gets, what does that leave the Skinner with? Nothing, absolutely nothing! The same goes for Herbalist and Miners. Tailoring is special in that way they get EXTRA cloth from corpses, but it doesn't remove your chance to get cloth from your own loot so why should the extra cloth be rolled for when you already have a chance to get your own cloth to begin with?

As for the actual idea OP suggest, the roll bonus would basicly make disenchant rolls go for Enchanters only because it adds 100 to the roll. If you roll disenchant and a Enchanter rolls for disenchant you have NO CHANCE of winning the disenchant. The idea would basicly mean unless the Enchanter pass you get nothing. A better idea to suggest would have been that only Enchanters can roll disenchant while the rest of the group rolls Greed. However just reading that tells you the idea in question is a bad one since it would equal the removal of disenchant roll completely.

Therefore I will go back to my original argument. Enchanters doesn't lose their Enchanting abilities if others can roll on Disenchant compared to other profession items that you can get access to in dungeons.

[Joodoc]

Before LFD, enchanters-who-are-not-dicks would need everything, DE it and then the group will roll on mats.
This system automated such a process and ironed out accidental ninjaing.
It works perfectly fine.

the difference was that often times people woudl leave before they got there mats, so in the long run we still got more mats out of it, plus people would say no thanks and whatnot

---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 04:21 PM ----------

As a Blacksmith when people come to me to craft something I expect them to have their own mats and to be paying me a fee (ignoring the orbs situation which is a pain in the arse). Why should Enchanting be any different?

At the end of the day, it is you and your fellow enchanters that set the price on the fee, don't expect to live off of tips defined by the customer.


Also if you as an enchanter roll Greed rather than DE; you can DE it later if you're in a suitable guild for an extra bonus, which does mean the enchanter gets bonus mats. You also can DE your soulbound gear. Something that made raiding enchanters pretty rich during T11.

idk how it is implemented but that is already in effect, when someone DEd an item for me when I was on my DEer that had the perk i got extra dust from the perk, but idk if it was because of my guild or hers, and if it only worked cause I was a chanter or not

---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 04:24 PM ----------

I don't see why enchanters should win that crap all of the time. The purpose of the disenchant roll is to take out the need for non-enchanters to mail the random greens to alts or guildies asking for them to be disenchanted.

except what about BoP items, which is where the real money is made. those items are items they woudl not otherwise get DEd

---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 04:30 PM ----------

Mining is a gathering profession. They gather. Players don't have a burning need to attach bars of gold to their gear. The miner gathers ore and sells bars.



JC is in a similar status to enchanting. The secondary tool linked to the profession and shouldn't be there to make money. I would happily see it changed, give it to miners maybe. But then there would be concerns about mining being too profitable.



Herbalism is a gathering profession. Inscription and alchemy are crafting professions. The crafting professions expect people to bring mats with them, while the crafter gets paid a fee. Scribes and alchemists do not go around getting herbs and putting them on the AH; that is the herbalists.



Sorry, you've just fallen into the mistaken idea that you're a gathering profession again. You're a crafter. You craft things. People bring you mats, you give them an enchant and charge them a fee. You've put your time and effort into the ability to craft things, not the ability to disenchant things.



It is the enchanter that sets the price. If it isn't making you money, don't sell it at that price. Its a simple concept. I don't spam glyphs with my scribe when I can't shift them for more money than the mats cost me, I would be making a loss. I let the idiots crash the price and only return when there's some actual profit there.

Why should enchanters be the only profession to first make a profit selling the mats and then make a second profit crafting the items? The ability to DE should either be a profession on its own or given to all players. Social etiquette saw the latter option being preferred by players, so the LFD system encompassed it. This worked out great because it makes sense for only enchanters to be able to DE items for RP reasons, and they also got the perk to DE their soulbound gear, something that makes me a tidy fortune.

you realize insc works just like like JCing, which works just like enchanting? and tailoring similar since the materials we mostly make. BS, LW, and engineering work the other way, though even then to an extent, you still make things like frames and bolts and whatnot, those are items you sell, and people buy to be used to make other things.

---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 04:37 PM ----------

I don't really get why people are upset about this and then drag in Skinning, Mining and such. First of all Enchanting is not a gathering profession they get their mats from destroying other items that are uncommon or higher in quality. To allow more people than the enchanter to roll on disenchant doesn't remove the Enchanters ability to enchant gear. However if you were to allow other people to roll on skins that a Skinner gets, what does that leave the Skinner with? Nothing, absolutely nothing! The same goes for Herbalist and Miners. Tailoring is special in that way they get EXTRA cloth from corpses, but it doesn't remove your chance to get cloth from your own loot so why should the extra cloth be rolled for when you already have a chance to get your own cloth to begin with?

As for the actual idea OP suggest, the roll bonus would basicly make disenchant rolls go for Enchanters only because it adds 100 to the roll. If you roll disenchant and a Enchanter rolls for disenchant you have NO CHANCE of winning the disenchant. The idea would basicly mean unless the Enchanter pass you get nothing. A better idea to suggest would have been that only Enchanters can roll disenchant while the rest of the group rolls Greed. However just reading that tells you the idea in question is a bad one since it would equal the removal of disenchant roll completely.

Therefore I will go back to my original argument. Enchanters doesn't lose their Enchanting abilities if others can roll on Disenchant compared to other profession items that you can get access to in dungeons.

the other crafting proffs make large amounts of gold from chaos orbs alone, atleast for now, or are used constantly (like alch) and we are expected to get all the enchants, which are expencive as hell for a 25g tip because it was your mats, which you got because we DEd for you in a dungeon. because mats are so abundant, the best enchants out there practically never sell for more than 1k, and that is with us providing materials, yet they cost 4k to buy the recipe, and we have to provide mats, or we had to spend 5 maelstroms when they were selling for like 2k each.

[Arteous]

Obviously that people are greedy and want enchanters benefits. I'm sure the enchanters would want other profession's benefits to. The worst part, some people manage to formulate the issue into that enchanters are greedy. While they only want fair balance compared to the other professions.

Remove the roll disenchant option. It's killing the profession.

QFT. untill then i'll be needing on everything i can while i'm on my enchanter. in vanilla everyone felt entitled to the prestine hide. if they wanted it so much they should of leveled skinning. I would leave trash items on beast so i could go back and skin it after everyone left if they wanted to roll on it. nope not a skinner sorry .. (everyone leaves and i get my skinning done).

Imo it should go the same for all professions or limit it to having the profession.

example:

I'm in a group and miner wants to slow us down and mine a few nodes while clearing trash. i should be allowed to roll on the ore loot he's getting, after all i need things made by a black smith so how is it different me giving him the ore to make it with vs enchant mats to get an enchant ? same thing. same goes with herbing and skinning (leg enchants .. leather/cloth items to be crafted, potions ect. fits to engineers and stuff like skinning bosses/mobs that enginers can for parts.

Best solution make it so only enchanters can roll DE. non enchanters can roll greed. if they want the items de'd they need to make an arrangement with the enchanter otherwise soulbound stuff he's only going to be able to vendor.

[lavafoxx]

The thing i've said time and time again is that Blizzard should tie in the Disenchanting skill to the enchanter's rod, if ya don't care to DE just leave it in the bank. makes everybody happy.

[Arteous]

The thing i've said time and time again is that Blizzard should tie in the Disenchanting skill to the enchanter's rod, if ya don't care to DE just leave it in the bank. makes everybody happy.

fine with me i'll still roll need and then after the instance is done i'll go to the bank and get my rod out.

[Shammyhealz]

But tailors do have to share their cloth. Cloth is not rolled on, whoever has loot privilege on the corpse, gets the loot. And if they don't loot the cloth, then there must be something wrong with them, it still AHs for quite a bit on my server. Skinners have to either race to corpses or take turns skinning if there is more than one. The honest answer is that no other profession gathers hardly at all from instances, and if any greens loot drops from gathering, there is a loot roll on it, whether or not you know that. If you are so gung ho to gather mats and not share them, run old instances. Most of the Normal cata dungeons are fairly easily soloable. The other point to make is that other crafting professions only to cater to a smaller number of players. Everyone needs enchants, but only plate wearers need armor from a BS, only leather wearers and mail wearers need a LW. Also, you only buy that item once. Every time you replace a piece of gear you need enchants. Basically what you are saying is that you think that Enchanters should control the Enchanting market, so you can price gouge. Want to complain? Talk to Alchemists, ask what the Guild Cauldron has done to the Flask trade. Before everyone had the recipes for that I could make a large sum of money fairly easily on flasks. At one point, Flask of the Draconic Mind was 350g per. Now I'm lucky to get 125g, I'm even lucky to sell them.

[Arteous]

But tailors do have to share their cloth.

unlike tailors enchanters need boss drop items to disenchant for materials to level enchanting. last time i checked i could level tailoring to maximum off mobs outside of instances without having to kill bosses.

and you say run old instances? let me know when i can level to CAP enchanting running and deing mats from ramparts. owait .. i can't can i? but you can go to areas like twilight highands and kill npcs and get lots of cloth and cap out your tailoring. let me know when greens and blues drop just as often as cloth out there.

[Christan]

I would say no and my mage main is an enchanter.

And I never realy got what the problem was either.

this,

if no enchanter is around, i mail BoE's to my chanter, and disenchant.
but then BoP boss loot = no d/e

if a chanter is around, i hit greed(Still) and mail the BoE's to my chanter for the bountiful bags guild level bonus.
also BoP boss drops i hit De.

i could see them making it to where only a chanter can roll DE on boss drops(everyone else has to hit greed)
but back before this system, chanter hit need on everything for daily dungeons, and split shards up at the end, or rolled per boss.

it works exactly the same now as it did back then, except you can not trade non-conjured items cross server,
this also prevents chanter from jacking all the shards at the end(sry guys you aren't chanters /log)

it works the same way as before this was implemented, with the upside that it prevents(in most cases, cant keep a clothie off of needing on cloth to de)
but the upside of preventing ninja's.

god i love how it works now.

Dierwolf - emerald dream, and Chaosing - Darkspear (US) are my two current enchanters.

My rogue dierwolf has been dealing with splitting mats to ppl in the run since pre-bc, and my DK tank, since wotlk.

and i love how it works now, saves a bunch of time and a bunch of arguing (party member 1 wants to split shards up at the end, party member 2 wants a roll each boss, etc...god it wasted time, then having to open trade after each boss, or at the end with each person, ugh)

unlike tailors enchanters need boss drop items to disenchant for materials to level enchanting. last time i checked i could level tailoring to maximum off mobs outside of instances without having to kill bosses.

last i checked, sorry if i am wrong, but non-elite mobs can indeed drop green items to disenchant, and a huge flux of crummy crafted blue items is amazing for providing shards, also quest greens, if you aren't a chanter you get nothing.

being a chanter and able to DE quest rewards is a HUGE bonus!
^ there that is your bonus, in dungeons it is split.

[lavafoxx]

fine with me i'll still roll need and then after the instance is done i'll go to the bank and get my rod out.

i think ya missed the point. the only issue with the current DE system is that it forces the enchanter's DE skill to be used without their say in it. if the DE skill is tied to the rod it gives the enchanter the ability to allow his skill to be used or not.

[Evolixe]

Why does there need to be found any solution to anything?

Is there a problem then?

[Arteous]

i think ya missed the point. the only issue with the current DE system is that it forces the enchanter's DE skill to be used without their say in it. if the DE skill is tied to the rod it gives the enchanter the ability to allow his skill to be used or not.

wich really again doesn't matter much really. because the enchanter is still not likely to get the enchanting mats he needs. back to square one.

[lavafoxx]

wich really again doesn't matter much really. because the enchanter is still not likely to get the enchanting mats he needs. back to square one.

it doesn't matter if we get the mats or not, the only thing that matters is we getting a choice or not in allowing our skill to be used.

[Hottie4Hire]

I just need roll on everything I can.

[Irisel]

I just need roll on everything I can.

Awesome. /10char

[Judge Malthred]

Lockboxes rarely have anything good in them. And if you're going to do that, you might as well give that bonus to BS as well. We can make keys that will open them.

Hey don't be knocking the 30-40g in there! I'll take a bonus to lock box rolls! lol

[Dexiefy]

I would say no and my mage main is an enchanter.

And I never realy got what the problem was either.

if some1 skins/herbs/mines anything in dungeon, do you get to roll on it? no
so why enchanters should share their profession cappabilities?

[Deleted]

no Enchanting and DE is fine as it is.

we get an average of 2.3 items per de.

adding a bonus so we get it would be unfair on people using the DE function for mats the genuinely need.
"taxation" where we get a % of anything DE'ed would devalue them even more than what they are at the moment.

It really is fine how it is at the moment, just because people like the OP have no idea or are not willing to put the effort into making materials dosnt mean we should get mats handed to us with minimal effort.

[Gramexer]

if some1 skins/herbs/mines anything in dungeon, do you get to roll on it? no
so why enchanters should share their profession cappabilities?

Because Enchanters can Enchant items and make scrolls. Crafting profession.

Or do you want buy player 1s' materials from ah and then tip player 1 when he enchanted.

[Deleted]

if some1 skins/herbs/mines anything in dungeon, do you get to roll on it? no
so why enchanters should share their profession cappabilities?

without a herber / Skinner / Miner those items in dungeons are effectively worthless as there is no one there to gather them.
the greens / blues / epics still have a value regardless of a DE'er being in the dungeon or not. you all so realize that the majority of BOE items that would be dropped in dungeons would be DE'ed via an alt or a friend, and un used BOP's would be vendor trash. having the ability to de them in a dungeon just makes things faster.

you also chose the profession "enchanting" not Dis-enchanting. the DE function effectively gives us enchanters 3 professions, our main ones enchanting + Whatever, and a Gathering profession Disenchanting.