1. #1

    SWTOR review for WoW hardcore raiders?

    If there are in-depth comparison of WoW to SW:ToR for people who are used to hardcore raiding?
    Alternatively, can anyone provide their thought?

    The first question is of course whether it is even worth looking at.

    After that:
    1. How will the endgame content be like? Is it raid bosses? Which size? And so on...
    2. Will the guild system/culture be like WoW, or any innovations there?
    3. Will it offer the same class complexity and depth as WoW?
    4. Will classes be balanced as well or better than WoW?
    5. Will it provide serious challenge comparable to WoW?
    6. Will it provide as much content/more content than WoW?
    7. Any top guilds already considering switching or evaluating SW:ToR?

  2. #2
    These are difficult questions to answer as the beta is still under the NDA :P

  3. #3
    This is a bit worrying, since WoW competitors have historically always failed, so if they are going to succeed, they really need to convince people that raiding is viable in SW:ToR ASAP, so that they have time to plan to play their game, especially if it is going to compete with tier 13 progression.

    Anyway, has the NDA been actually mostly respected, or is it being routinely violated and is information actually available? (where?)
    When will it be lifted?
    Last edited by Lolisa; 2011-10-10 at 02:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Epic! Iceleaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Santa Destroy
    Posts
    1,562
    I'm pretending to be helpful here. (not in beta, cant/wont break nda. All I know from official sources)

    1 - 8man and 16 man raids. Most likely because theres 8 classes each faction so "1/2 each" (ideally ofc..cant hurt 2 juggernaught tanks etc). Currently theres one raid revealed iirc (eternity vault) - most likely one or two more at start.
    2 - Guilds are guilds. The website has ability of making "allies" and "enemies" within guilds so its kinda "deeper" than normal guilds. Not sure about in-game.
    3 - Most likely yes. Theres no autoattack so its up to you and what skills you use. There wont be some "autoattack heavy class with 2-3 spam buttons"
    4 - Yes but the usual start balance might be bit odd but imo not dmg wise (maybe cc heavy classes wil be strong in pvp). There wont be burst damage that would oneshot you in pvp. And bosses should have cool mechanics compared to wow (due using fresh engine)
    5 - "Heroic modes" has said to be harder than competitors. Take it as you will..
    6 - It wont have more content than 6 year old wow thats for sure..but it should have pretty much the amount of instances thats current now. That being what they have unveiled. Same amount of instances and one raid.
    Last edited by Iceleaf; 2011-10-10 at 02:20 AM.
    This signature is killing e-sports
    Youtube - Gaming Blog (+Transmogs, images, videos) - Twitch

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolisa View Post
    since WoW competitors have historically failed
    This is debatable. It depends on what their goal was. If it was to take down WoW, then they have. If it was to gain a decent player base and revenue to allow the continuation of the game, including additional content, then they've been successful. Lets not forget that every game's goal isn't to be THE WoW killer.

    OT: MMO-Champion enforces the NDA, so you're not going to find any NDA-breaking information here, but I'm almost positive that SWTOR will have hardcore dungeons and raids.

  6. #6
    Frankly I would be fine with a lacking raid endgame.

    They typically create the most elitest groups who ruin the social aspect of a game.

    BUT as long as raiding isnt the only focus of endgame like wow is a better balance might weed out the elitest scum that turn games into social cesspools calling people noobs for stepping in an unexpected fire once or god forbid someone who does endgame who isn't already decked out in the best possible gear.

    As long as SWTOR endgame is not like WoW mentality wise I could live with people choosing to raid.

    It's hard to answer questions with NDA keeping the lucky beta testers quiet but its impossible right now to tell if i'll get my wish for a non-cutthroat "raid or die" type raiding endgame different from WoW

  7. #7
    There's a ton of NDA-breaking information out there.

    No, I won't tell you where.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  8. #8
    Why does MMO-Champion have this ridiculous policy of enforcing BioWare's NDA?

    As far as I know you are only liable if you signed the NDA yourself, and passing leaked information is otherwise perfectly legal (assuming you don't violate copyright laws by identically reproducing significant content).

    Not to mention that while NDAs might give a business advantage to the company (or maybe not), they are obviously detrimental to all customers, since you can't get useful information to guide your purchases in a timely manner.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolisa View Post
    Why does MMO-Champion have this ridiculous policy of enforcing BioWare's NDA?

    As far as I know you are only liable if you signed the NDA yourself, and passing leaked information is otherwise perfectly legal (assuming you don't violate copyright laws by identically reproducing significant content).

    Not to mention that while NDAs might give a business advantage to the company (or maybe not), they are obviously detrimental to all customers, since you can't get useful information to guide your purchases in a timely manner.
    Because MMO-Champion isn't some shady backwater site run out of someone's garage. It's a big site itself that tens of thousands of people visit everyday that is part of a bigger network of sites (curse). It has to keep itself clean.
    My Cracked articles, writing blog, and Twitter.

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

    Want to chat with people who aren't idiots? Join our IRC.

  10. #10
    Well, I think most sites (e.g. newspapers, Slashdot, Digg) normally report about leaks on their subject matters, and in fact those are generally the most desirable stories overall.
    Think, for example, of Wikileaks leaked cables (which were even classified!), which have gone all over traditional media.

    Some (e.g. I think Gizmodo with the iPhone leak) even attempt to actively seek leaked information to increase their page views (this gets you into legal trouble, though).

    So, it seems to me quite unusual to ban leaked information of any kind.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolisa View Post
    Well, I think most sites (e.g. newspapers, Slashdot, Digg) normally report about leaks on their subject matters, and in fact those are generally the most desirable stories overall.
    Think, for example, of Wikileaks leaked cables (which were even classified!), which have gone all over traditional media.

    Some (e.g. I think Gizmodo with the iPhone leak) even attempt to actively seek leaked information to increase their page views (this gets you into legal trouble, though).

    So, it seems to me quite unusual to ban leaked information of any kind.
    You could always go to the other swtor forums that are discussing things covered by the NDA and ask your questions there.

    Although, they wouldn't be able to tell you much. I don't think the larger beta servers are testing operations yet, and operations have only been tested by a few guilds.


    1. How will the endgame content be like? Is it raid bosses? Which size? And so on...
    8man, 16man. Raid bosses. Raids similar to WoW, people like to say that there will be more "choices" in it but I'm sure most of it will be like WoW.

    2. Will the guild system/culture be like WoW, or any innovations there?
    No guild leveling (I hate that shit anyway). Guild culture is dependent on players, not the game. But if you're asking if guilds are any different from WoW, then no, not really.

    3. Will it offer the same class complexity and depth as WoW?
    Sure why not. You mean are some classes DoT based and other classes CD based and etc etc? Then I'm sure it will. All classes have a bunch of different skills, so I'm sure there will be rotations.

    4. Will classes be balanced as well or better than WoW?
    Do you honestly thing someone can tell you this answer? Of course they WANT to do it, but that doesn't mean they can. I'm sure they'll be trying their best.

    5. Will it provide serious challenge comparable to WoW?
    Yet to be seen, we don't know (not even most beta players) what hardmode raids will be like.

    6. Will it provide as much content/more content than WoW?
    Of course a game fresh out of the box isn't going to have as much content as a 7 year old game. Get realistic. There is currently 1 raid and 3 pvp zones for launch.

    7. Any top guilds already considering switching or evaluating SW:ToR?
    Dunno.
    My Cracked articles, writing blog, and Twitter.

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

    Want to chat with people who aren't idiots? Join our IRC.

  12. #12
    6. Will it provide as much content/more content than WoW?
    Of course a game fresh out of the box isn't going to have as much content as a 7 year old game. Get realistic. There is currently 1 raid and 3 pvp zones for launch.
    Well, in WoW end-game only the latest raid is relevant, and all the rest is pretty much useless content.
    WoW currently offers 7 raid bosses; once 4.3 releases, those will be obsolete and 8 new bosses will be available.

    So if SW:ToR releases with, say, 16 raid bosses, then it will have twice the amount of endgame content WoW has.

    After that, what matters is how fast they release new content, and how big the content updates are.

    Of course the difficulty of it also matters, as well as how lockout are structured/how in general do they expect the content to be done.
    For example in current WoW top-end competition is done by raiding as much as possible until content is cleared, which is due to raids being ungated, while it is still possible to clear all content with part-time raiding.

    Depending on the competition structure they will have, more content can also be detrimental, as some people may get burned out, so it's actually more complicated than just quantity.

    But IMHO they really need to convince ASAP as many guilds as possible in the top100 WoW guilds to evaluate their game and/or switch, or they risk not having a good enough hardcore scene, which will likely cause them to fail as soon as the novelty wears off; so, the lack of information about their endgame is very worrying regarding their possible success, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Lolisa; 2011-10-10 at 03:14 AM.

  13. #13
    Mhm, most of the things that do matter (how quickly new content will be released, how long hardmode content will last the "average hardcore" guild, and whether or not content will get progressively nerfed for no reason other than to make bad players happy and see hardmode content, even though they've already seen normal mode content, without working for it) haven't been shown, we can't really predict how BW will handle these situations.
    My Cracked articles, writing blog, and Twitter.

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

    Want to chat with people who aren't idiots? Join our IRC.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •