NDA and EA

[creedster]

The graphics on TOR look well nice anyway! So whatever.

The game.. looks.. awesooooome!

[Anexis]

I'm a bit curious about why there is still an NDA, can't they reveal more features without spoiling story lines? I thought they would want to tell us a bit more about the game 2 months before release, to convert those people that can't decide whether to pre-order or not. I don't think it's because they don't want people to see everything and decide they dont want to play it before it's released but some people might.

[Zachyveng]

I'm a bit curious about why there is still an NDA, can't they reveal more features without spoiling story lines? I thought they would want to tell us a bit more about the game 2 months before release, to convert those people that can't decide whether to pre-order or not. I don't think it's because they don't want people to see everything and decide they dont want to play it before it's released but some people might.

Here's the response to that, What features *haven't* they shown us? The only thing that springs to mind is crafting, we don't really have a huge amount of knowledge on that just the list of the possible professions and that we can have 3 total. I mean the story is the only thing they haven't shown us at this point.

[DecemberSpawn]

I have to say that all these discussions are pointless. You guys throw around your reasoning behind anything and everything without any proof or knowledge and what exactly is going on behind closed doors in the Bioware conference room. Why can't people just accept that the NDA is still up and somewhere down the line there is just reasoning behind it. The game will be out in due time and having patience is the key.

Why must everyone try to read up and learn about everything a game has to offer rather than going in and finding things out for yourself and being excited and surprised with what you find. So what if the graphics aren't Crysis driven and have the latest technological advanced bs that honestly isn't even needed to create the world they wanted to create. Just wait for it to be released and go in and enjoy what the game has to offer. You aren't going to be given worldwide recegnition for learning everything you can and blowing through all the content with ease. So why not sit back relax and just enjoy the game for what it is and not for what it could be by all these comparisons.

My vote would be whole-heartdly to keep the NDA till the day it's released. I don't want to know everything. It doesn't make anything special by knowing everything beforehand. Honestly the best memories people have I find are often times the most surprising ones. Like finding out your significant other is pregnant, or laying your eyes on your child for the first time, your first kiss, or finding a dog at a gas station who turns out to be one of your best companions. I could continue this list on and on but I won't.

TLR - Just relax and enjoy the game for what it is when it comes out.

[Puremallace]

I think one of the main reasons the NDA is still in place is because it IS a story driven MMO, Bioware is known for telling badass stories. They don't want to spoil the story experience that would come about by getting rid of the NDA. All the big facts are out there. They've shown us Flashpoints, PvP, Operations, Low level origin worlds, we know it's a hot key style MMO, we know it's got the trinity. That's really all we need to know before it starts to get into spoilers etc.

I want to stick a pencil in my eye everytime I see this reason why the NDA has not been lifted.

[Zachyveng]

I want to stick a pencil in my eye everytime I see this reason why the NDA has not been lifted.

And why is that? Or were/are you just trying to start a fight?

[Puremallace]

And why is that? Or were/are you just trying to start a fight?

Reasons to keep the NDA.
1. Story

Reason why not not to keep the NDA:
1. Disclosure
2. % of grind
3. min/max builds
4. disclosure of content
5. bugs, exploits, work arounds
6. polish
7. compatibility
8. playstyle
9. information on how complete zones are
10. mmo site reviews
11. You get more hype if the game is not crap
12. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT

#12 is the most important

[Herrenos]

I have to say that all these discussions are pointless. You guys throw around your reasoning behind anything and everything without any proof or knowledge and what exactly is going on behind closed doors in the Bioware conference room. Why can't people just accept that the NDA is still up and somewhere down the line there is just reasoning behind it. The game will be out in due time and having patience is the key.

Why must everyone try to read up and learn about everything a game has to offer rather than going in and finding things out for yourself and being excited and surprised with what you find. So what if the graphics aren't Crysis driven and have the latest technological advanced bs that honestly isn't even needed to create the world they wanted to create. Just wait for it to be released and go in and enjoy what the game has to offer. You aren't going to be given worldwide recegnition for learning everything you can and blowing through all the content with ease. So why not sit back relax and just enjoy the game for what it is and not for what it could be by all these comparisons.

My vote would be whole-heartdly to keep the NDA till the day it's released. I don't want to know everything. It doesn't make anything special by knowing everything beforehand. Honestly the best memories people have I find are often times the most surprising ones. Like finding out your significant other is pregnant, or laying your eyes on your child for the first time, your first kiss, or finding a dog at a gas station who turns out to be one of your best companions. I could continue this list on and on but I won't.

TLR - Just relax and enjoy the game for what it is when it comes out.

MMOs are a different beast than every other game though. I'm far more interested in the details of an MMO I want to play than I am of an offline game, or even an online game without character progression (like MW or CoD, etc).

The reason for me at least is that I hate being behind, and catching up takes a long time. When I am playing an MMO, it pretty much takes up all my "screen time" - I don't watch TV, I don't play other games, etc. I also don't feel like I can realistically fully invest in 2 MMOs simultaneously. I recently switched to Rift from WoW, and I cancelled my WoW account. When (If?) I switch to SWTOR, I plan to cancel my Rift account. If I end up hating SWTOR and going back to Rift, that's a TON of time and character progression I've wasted.

So for MMOs I like to get as much information as I can so that I can be reasonably sure I'm going to stick with a game. For a game like Final Fantasy (offline), if I end up hating it, well, I'm just out 50 bucks, which sucks, but it's not like I really lost any standing with Dragon Age.

[Zachyveng]

Reasons to keep the NDA.
1. Story

Reason why not not to keep the NDA:
1. Disclosure
2. % of grind
3. min/max builds
4. disclosure of content
5. bugs, exploits, work arounds
6. polish
7. compatibility
8. playstyle
9. information on how complete zones are
10. mmo site reviews
11. You get more hype if the game is not crap
12. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT

#12 is the most important

So you basically want them to remove the NDA so you can know everything about the game before it comes out...I honestly cannot understand that. I mean sure I'd love to be able to hear all the little things that are excellent, etc but that would ruin the experience.

Hell I'm not going to go any further because as we know every time someone starts down this topic of discussion it goes into a "you should play this way" "NO you should play this way" argument and I don't want that to happen. At this point in time I don't care about min/maxing (although I will once I start raiding, but I honestly don't give a shit 2 months before the games out), % of grind (and they've said, and people in the beta have said that it really isn't a grind), or any of that stuff I just want to enjoy the awesome game that I'm pretty sure Bioware will put out.

Besides I have to disagree with you about your 11th point, they're going to get WAY more hype by keeping it in the shadows and throwing out small morsels every now and then instead of just opening the doors and baring all. That's just basic human knowledge. We're way more interested in things we aren't allowed to see/do instead of things we know everything about. I mean I was interested about Cata and then the NDA fell off and we found out everything. I mean at that point I lost all the hype I'd had about the expansion.

[Puremallace]

So you basically want them to remove the NDA so you can know everything about the game before it comes out...I honestly cannot understand that. I mean sure I'd love to be able to hear all the little things that are excellent, etc but that would ruin the experience.

I own a copy of Aion and Final Fantasy 14 collector editions because I did not ask those 12 questions. I am a tad bit more cautious these days on hyped games. Trust me I used to be like you and then I dealt with those colossal failures.

[philefluxx]

At the end of the day even great game developers who are under a larger publisher still have to answer to them. Some companies give a huge amount of free reign to let them finish it in time. It's not always like that though, in any media with a heavily hyped project there's going to be concerns. Same can be said for EA wanting updates and a timeline on when to expect it's done. They can influence projects to speed up the release date even if it's not entirely ready. They may just can some of the work they were doing to a later patch. That was my original concern and why I posted.

I didn't consider the storyline the reason the NDA was still being upheld and that's a very good point. It can also be used to hide the fact there's issues with the game they don't want to get out and hurt sales. I'm confident Bioware will deliver a high quality game, I like many others just want it to be a game to remember. Not something long forgotten or the butt of a joke a few years from now.

Im fairly confident with the amount of people that have been in recent beta's if there is really game breaking problems you would know. People have a hard enough time upholding the NDA with good news, people would never follow the NDA if the game is absolute garbage.

[Deatheryn]

I think one of the main reasons the NDA is still in place is because it IS a story driven MMO, Bioware is known for telling badass stories. They don't want to spoil the story experience that would come about by getting rid of the NDA. All the big facts are out there. They've shown us Flashpoints, PvP, Operations, Low level origin worlds, we know it's a hot key style MMO, we know it's got the trinity. That's really all we need to know before it starts to get into spoilers etc.

This I think is correct as far as the game being story driven and Bioware not wanting the players to lose the thrill of discovery from brand new stories, new environments and what not! Take WoW for instance, soon as a new area is developed it is posted everywhere and by the time it is released half of the community is tired of seeing it already! I think they are trying to avoid that and keep brand new,brand new!

I've seen enough of actual game play from Gamerscon footage to satisfy me that it looks polished and smooth! Bioware has invested countless dollars and time into this game, far more of each that in their single player console titles so I have zero doubt that this game will be truly epic and I am not even a big SW fan!

---------- Post added 2011-10-13 at 01:23 PM ----------

Im fairly confident with the amount of people that have been in recent beta's if there is really game breaking problems you would know. People have a hard enough time upholding the NDA with good news, people would never follow the NDA if the game is absolute garbage.

I second this as well!

[Chrysia]

Reasons to keep the NDA.
1. Story

Reason why not not to keep the NDA:
1. Disclosure
2. % of grind
3. min/max builds
4. disclosure of content
5. bugs, exploits, work arounds
6. polish
7. compatibility
8. playstyle
9. information on how complete zones are
10. mmo site reviews
11. You get more hype if the game is not crap
12. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT

#12 is the most important

On your points:

1. They have revealed all major points of the game. The NDA stops unfinished specifics from getting out.
2. Not finalized.
3. Not finalized.
4. Not finalized, but we have all major content revealed to us. Number of planets, number of levels, organization of talent trees, etc.
5. Not finalized.
6. Not finalized.
7. Minimum system specs up.
8. Not finalized, but they have given us general overviews of all the existing classes.
9. Not finalized again, it's still Beta.
10. Why review an unfinished game? You need a finalized version to get a good review.
11. Again, the game is not done, the NDA is not to hide the fact that it's "crap," it's for the sole purpose of keeping people from getting worked up about unfinished items.
12. We CAN talk about it, anything that's been officially released. Beta testers just can't reveal more than is official.

[Puremallace]

On your points:

1. They have revealed all major points of the game. The NDA stops unfinished specifics from getting out.
2. Not finalized.
3. Not finalized.
4. Not finalized, but we have all major content revealed to us. Number of planets, number of levels, organization of talent trees, etc.
5. Not finalized.
6. Not finalized.
7. Minimum system specs up.
8. Not finalized, but they have given us general overviews of all the existing classes.
9. Not finalized again, it's still Beta.
10. Why review an unfinished game? You need a finalized version to get a good review.
11. Again, the game is not done, the NDA is not to hide the fact that it's "crap," it's for the sole purpose of keeping people from getting worked up about unfinished items.
12. We CAN talk about it, anything that's been officially released. Beta testers just can't reveal more than is official.

2 months 7 days

Daniel Erickson is quoted as saying the game is FINISHED and is only being polished. So my point remains. Why is there a NDA if he said that?

[Trollsbane]

It's been said before.

It's not finished.

That's the beauty of MMOs. They're never finished. They can tweak right up until launch, and will continue to do so afterwards. The core game is finished for the most part, and could easily be released today. But they want more. They want better.

The problem is, if testers see something and report on it, and them it changes, the community shits bricks. We've already seen it time and time again.

[Chrysia]

2 months 7 days

Daniel Erickson is quoted as saying the game is FINISHED and is only being polished. So my point remains. Why is there a NDA if he said that?

The core game design IS finished, but the details and specific mechanics are not.

They are still tweaking numbers, balancing talent trees, cleaning up bugs and environments. It's finished in regards to core programming, but not DONE.

Until it is DONE, and that probably means when Early Access starts, there will be an NDA, to protect BioWare from rabid fans.

[link064]

Why can't people just accept that the NDA is still up and somewhere down the line there is just reasoning behind it.

It's because people tend to think like this:
No memes
Except, now the internet says, "I don't know, therefore [game must be bad/hiding something/afraid/etc]". It's really sad to see such wild and paranoid explanations thrown around to explain why the NDA is still up when the explanation is simple and has been said hundreds of times: "The game is not finished. Every part of the game that is finalized has been lifted through the NDA. Everything else is still subject to change (and even then some things are still subject to change)."

I agree with your points. Part of the fun of exploring virtual worlds is the exploring part.

I own a copy of Aion and Final Fantasy 14 collector editions because I did not ask those 12 questions. I am a tad bit more cautious these days on hyped games. Trust me I used to be like you and then I dealt with those colossal failures.

So, because you want to continue to be a day 1 player but not have to take any risks in games, you now expect to know everything about a game before it's released? Why not just wait until day 2 or 3 to read all the reviews, read user feedback, and see bug reports? There is absolutely no benefit to being in the game on day 1 versus day 10 (temporary e-peen growth aside).

Also, I'm growing more and more sick and tired of this ridiculous double-standard gamers have gotten for MMOs. How many other game genres have the same types of requirements as MMOs? None. Take, for example, Batman: Arkham City. How many of your listed requirements of pre-release information is available? Next to none. Do you see droves of insane gamers flooding the internet with their QQs of indignant rage at Rocksteady for not giving them every last bit of information about the game (like they do about SWTOR or other MMOs)? Honestly, I know some of the sentiment comes from BioWare's own marketing department and their ability to drive hype (like through their weekly updates and videos), but a lot comes from precedent. Many gamers go, "Well, this one game didn't have an NDA" or "Game X had an open beta" and now they automatically assume that every game must do the same or else it is "fail". It's this mentality that I'll never understand.

---------- Post added 2011-10-13 at 01:35 PM ----------

Daniel Erickson is quoted as saying the game is FINISHED and is only being polished. So my point remains. Why is there a NDA if he said that?

I'm curious where this quote is (source pls) and why a quote from a writer has any bearing on the overall development of a game? Unless you misspoke and actually meant Dickinson...

[Sengura]

You know, this is a tough one for me to get past. I was heavily involved in WoW before the Activision thing, so Blizz has always been, well, Blizz. But I actually do associate GW2 with NCSoft and SWTOR with EA..... and not in a positive way. It's really my own fault because I <3 Bioware and I don't have a negative opinion of ArenaNet, but every time I start to wonder if the game(s) might be bad, it's always because I assume EA/NCSoft is going to crap them up.

Well, the publishers don't have any actually power over the production of the game itself. They can pressure the Developer into an earlier release because they are in charge of the money involved. But this hasn't really been the case with SWTOR. As pretty much everyone already knows, SWTOR has been a really expensive game to make and it's also been in development for like what, 5+ years? Given that, I'd say EA has been pretty patient. If they are pressuring BW for a release now, we can't really say it's their fault, I mean the game has already been in production for so long and has cost over $200M to make.

Given all that, I'd say EA has been a pretty good publisher. Most publishers wouldn't give their developers that much money and time for an MMORPG, they put a lot of faith on BioWare (and I would too, they have an excellent track record!).

[conscript]

This thread is getting more and more out of control. If Trolls deems it worth re-opening he will. I don't see what is left to gain from this thread except for more arguing.