Progress the Story...not the Level?

[Reah]

Was just thinking about something regarding TOR and that is with their focus on story could you see future content patches for the game contain the usual stuff we would expect like new Ops and Flashpoints but also new solo content that would progress your characters story but not progress your level? Basically making it to where any level cap increases would still be reserved for expansions. Granted if BW is even thinking about a level cap increase of any type.

Since they've announced that different romance options will be available in future patches this could be a way they implement those new options along with other story options with new companions, existing companions or both.

I mean you could have whole new story arcs. Arcs for class, factions, new companions, old companions, new and old worlds and so on. For me I could see story progression being enough for me to keep playing even if my level remained the same til the next expansion. It's just a theory but I could see that happening.

[vizzle]

Well I'm sure when they have expansions they will have more story content, that's a bit obvious. It doesn't really matter if they will increase the level cap or not, because our gear will still progress and increase our power.

But the story IS leveling, and then there's more story at max level. It just so happens that doing the story gives you experience which gives you levels.

[Reah]

Well I'm sure when they have expansions they will have more story content, that's a bit obvious. It doesn't really matter if they will increase the level cap or not, because our gear will still progress and increase our power.

But the story IS leveling, and then there's more story at max level. It just so happens that doing the story gives you experience which gives you levels.

Well yea i figured expansions will have the huge amounts of story content. I guess what i was wondering is would some players be willing to do story progression without gaining levels?

Like if you hit max level and have done all the story arcs and a new chapter that progresses the story of your class is introduced in a content patch but if you do the story arc you don't gain exp. Of course you gain other things like rep with your companions and social points perhaps even new gear and so on. Would story progression be enough or would you expect that if you're going to progress your story you must progress your level? For me story progress would be enough to keep me playing.

[vizzle]

Well yea i figured expansions will have the huge amounts of story content. I guess what i was wondering is would some players be willing to do story progression without gaining levels?

Like if you hit max level and have done all the story arcs and a new chapter that progresses the story of your class is introduced in a content patch but if you do the story arc you don't gain exp. Of course you gain other things like rep with your companions and social points perhaps even new gear and so on. Would story progression be enough or would you expect that if you're going to progress your story you must progress your level? For me story progress would be enough to keep me playing.

For some people, but for others they really won't care about the story, they'll just do the new raid/warzones that were released with that expansion. Some people, even people who would enjoy the story, have to be forced to do it by putting it in the way before end game.

[Gallahadd]

I would be MORE than happy to do story content without gaining levels.

I would really like it if each Major patch (not necessarily Expac) as well as adding new Flashpoints/Ops/classchanges/whatever they also added one or two LONG heroic questlines, based around epic stories, with some kind of token reward at the end. Imagine if ICC was a Op, if when they'd added ICC they'd also added the 5man Hcs' but instead of being annoying as hell dungeons that PuG's would invariable kill you in, they where three long, story based quests, all about trying to track down Frostmourne etc, and then right at the end of the last one you got a cool reward, maybe a nice title, or a Quel'Delar style weapon, where it was the same model, but had stats for all the classes (or considering how Swtor handles loot, it wasn't a weapon but a weapon Mod, or a REALLY cool looking weapon hilt, with no stats).

if they did stuff like that, stuff to do at max level that WASN'T FP's, Ops, PvP or Crafting then I would be a happy happy man, and would never need another game EVER again :P

[Thornstar]

Yeah I for one will continue the story at max level. it will be nice to have stuff to do besides raids or pvp at max level! Pretty sure bioware will give us more story than we can handle.

[vian]

I hope they're not oblivious enough to not add personal storylines in the Operations enviroment. Giving each class something to do (by them selves) in The Eternity vault, for example, would give the game much more depth during end-game. They could also make these tasks really, REALLY hard and give great rewards. Since my imagination is almost none I can't state an example but I think you get the picture.

[Adeodatus]

I don't think this will be the case, mostly because you will have a large crowd of content hungry folks, so if Bioware were to invest any major time into an xpac type release, it would most likely come with a lvl cap.

[Zachyveng]

I personally hope that Bioware adds a fed epic quest lines in with their Operation patches etc. Story is important to Star Wars I feel, I mean sure we're going to be grinding the operations most of the time but I think that adding a few long, awesome quests in will give the game a bit more life.

[Deleted]

The level increase is a tool to give the players the feeling that they got stronger and more experienced. That's why it's good to have new abilities with an expansion and in general new lures to progress in the game. That's why imho BW should raise levels along with new story with expansions.

On the other hand, more level means and more force points, health points and damage dealt, those a good reason to make adjustments to the game mechanics. For example: Take a look to WoW's last expansion, Cataclysm. With pvp fights being to fast during WotLK, they multiplied the hp of toons from 25-30hp to 160-180hp as bigger health pools mean longer fights. That was a clever way to improve the gameplay of the game

[Rehab420]

It would have been clever if it was done right, fights there still are too short.

I would be a fan of expantions not including leveling content. ie tier 1-3 in wow, progressed gear, story, without the outrageous health pools etc

[vian]

The level increase is a tool to give the players the feeling that they got stronger and more experienced. That's why it's good to have new abilities with an expansion and in general new lures to progress in the game. That's why imho BW should raise levels along with new story with expansions.

Here's two problems with adding levels into a Stat-based MMO.

1, Increasing the levels makes old content trivial, players entering the game post expansion, will never be bothered with these Operations.
2, Higher level gear = more stats, this has to be countered by lowering the value of stats, which in turn gives a false sence of increased power untill later into the expansion.

[Deleted]

Here's two problems with adding levels into a Stat-based MMO.

1, Increasing the levels makes old content trivial, players entering the game post expansion, will never be bothered with these Operations.
2, Higher level gear = more stats, this has to be countered by lowering the value of stats, which in turn gives a false sence of increased power untill later into the expansion.

As for number 1, I would actually agree but still I think it's not bad. People usually won't play past expansion's operations mostly because they would be no gear that they want. The quests will still be there, the entrance too, so it would be up to new players to either try them or leave them. On the other hand, let's say next expansion adds 10levels to game, making 60 levels cap. BW could add new dungeons and remake the lvl50 operations to new 51-60 levels dungeons, diving each one to 2-3 flashpoints, adding new and more conversations and lore. It's not a good imho but still a way to keep old contend fresh.


As for number 2,

Higher level gear = more stats

that's correct, whereas

this has to be countered by lowering the value of stats

is wrong. The percentages for hit cap remains the same, what increases is the hit rating. (Numbers are not correct. I just use them to make an example) That means a 50lvl toon has 2000 armor value that means lowering an basic attack of 1500 attack power for 10%. A 60lvl toon has 3000 armor value that means it reduces a basic attack of 3000 for 10%.

My point is, along with the offensive stats, defensive stats increase too, balancing each other and still keeping the same value as an percentage.

P.S. Sorry for using WoW examples if people are not familiar with them.

[vian]

My point is, along with the offensive stats, defensive stats increase too, balancing each other and still keeping the same value as an percentage.

P.S. Sorry for using WoW examples if people are not familiar with them.

I'll continue with a WoW example - Everyone who's been in the transition between expansions know that your powerfull epics will become worth less and less as you progress (due to ratings being worth less), swaping these purples against "Random green of gorilla" often gutts people and portraits the question "why did I even bother raiding 6-12 weeks to get that single item now that it's trivial". Some classes during the Wrath/Cata transition even ended up doing less dps than they did the expansion before. I know of alot of dedicated MMO players that has quit for this basic reason (Myself included).

To counter this BW has to be on their toes and prepare, if they decide to take the generic approach and add 10 more levels per expansion.

PS. Not that we have to bother thinking of an expansion anytime soon .

[Dalagrath]

The story in the game is most definitely the selling point. They are going for a don't worry about leveling, just enjoy the feeling of an epic story type deal.

[vian]

The story in the game is most definitely the selling point. They are going for a don't worry about leveling, just enjoy the feeling of an epic story type deal.

Very much so, and Im so happy that the first IP that i've been overly excited about happen to do this. <3

[conscript]

Personally, I hope TOR expansions, when they do come, don't have level increases. I would absolutely love if they managed to still have every Operation/Flashpoint remain relevant. Although I could see that getting stale after awhile and I do so love to solo/duo old raids in WoW. I suppose as long as they prevent stat inflation in TOR like WoW has I will be happy. If DPS and Health are going up two to ten times the previous amounts each expansion I would be fairly sad.

[philefluxx]

Well considering the way they handle gear, I think it could be entirely piratical to not raise the level cap in expansions. But they will need to find a way for you to gain new abilities. Maybe through talents and then make it so that you gain points by progressing the story of the expansion sort of like the way they handled talent points for DK's.

[Deleted]

Personally, I hope TOR expansions, when they do come, don't have level increases. I would absolutely love if they managed to still have every Operation/Flashpoint remain relevant. Although I could see that getting stale after awhile and I do so love to solo/duo old raids in WoW. I suppose as long as they prevent stat inflation in TOR like WoW has I will be happy. If DPS and Health are going up two to ten times the previous amounts each expansion I would be fairly sad.

Why does dps and health going up makes you sad? I don't want to offend you, I'm just curious

[vian]

Why does dps and health going up makes you sad? I don't want to offend you, I'm just curious

Often it doesn't from the start, stat inflations has been a problem for many games.