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  1. #1

    Help with advice for a slacking healer

    Hey all, we just got our full compliment of heals for our second FL 10m team and I was wandering if I could get some help.
    We are trying to help out our holy priest, who is really not pulling his weight. He is significantly better geared than myself and slightly under the druid we run with.
    here is a partial log from lastnights Majordomo feasco (trying out a new tank and some new dps who were.... well we had a lot of problems lastnight)
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/uwilcdms4rgp7ire/

    Aspper (me) Disc
    Star is the druid
    Duexsme is the Holy <---

    I like the guy and would like to help him out without pissing him off, so any constructive critisim would be apricieated!
    Thanks!
    I dont know how to do the fancy html shit, so just look up Aspp, Aspper, Maal, or Prix on Winterhoof.

  2. #2
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    I assume you are assigned to tank healing as Disc while the druid and the holy priest do most of the AoE healing bit? If not, it would probably be a better idea to arrange the healing so that you (Disc) take care of most of the tank healing, while the other two do most of the AoE healing.

    Another thing to consider is whether the druid or even yourself are sniping his heals? Looking at the logs briefly, it doesn't seem to be the case.

    His amount of PoH + CoH seems low to me. Those should be his main work horses, especially in scorpion phase where he should dump most of his mana. Cat phase is easier to do in Chakra: Serenity while mostly conserving mana; then ask him to swap to chakra: Sanc and pump out PoH and CoH during scorpion. Compared to your own numbers as Disc, PoH is your main heal, while for him it's really far down the list. For him it really should not be this way. Maybe he is "assisting" with the tank healing too much?

    He seems to be using a lot of Renew over PoH and CoH, which is not an ideal choice on Majordomo where people need to be decisively healed up in between scythes (where he should be doing the brunt of his healing anyway). The new version of Sanctuary is better than the old one, but in itself won't heal people back up to full. Using that as a crutch to look busy during scorpion phase won't cut it at all and works more as a mana sink than anything else. It really should be ProM first, then PoH and CoH to top people off. Anything else is probably a waste of time and mana. If he feels his PoHs are too slow, he can always swap in a bit more haste on his gear if he feels that helps.

    Another idea to boost his HPS, and perhaps mort importantly, raid survivability, is to ask him to put out a lightwell during scorpion phases and use it as a "mini raid CD". After say, scythe 3, everyone clicks the lightwell.

    Alternatively, if nothing works, you might want to at least entertain the thought of having him go shadow. Our raid found that in the end, we actually preferred to two man heal it since the phases were quicker and the fight did not last as long. A shadowpriest or a boomkin can also be helpful with an extra Divine Hymn/Hymn of Hope and tranquility if things are going pear shaped. You'll be operating on a bit of a thighter "budget" but on the other hand, it's normally better to take an extra DPs than "carrying" a slacking healer.
    Last edited by Laseen; 2011-10-14 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Myself and the druid are trying to convince our RL to let us 2 heal. The only problem having him in shadow is he cant pull above 10k dps. He just does not get the prio for it. I think another portion of his problem is the high flash heal count... He always seems to slack majorly at about 3 / 3.5 min into a fight so maybe hes going oom? Im still figuring out how to read logs so sorry if I sound redundent or just plain retarded!
    I dont know how to do the fancy html shit, so just look up Aspp, Aspper, Maal, or Prix on Winterhoof.

  4. #4
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    Well, he might be, since he seems to be spamming Renew a lot, and it really doesn't have the fast enough healing for Majordomo so he might simply be spamming it and over writing his own renews, while not doing a whole lot of actual healing.

    Steal his keyboard and keybind everything to PoH and CoH, I guess?

  5. #5
    Grunt Potions's Avatar
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    Basically he/she needs to look at using her AoE heals (PoH, CoH) way more than she is.. circle of healing that low on her heal chart? ew. Renew is nice but should be used as filler if someone isn't fully healed from the PoH, CoH or if a dps takes immediate dmg and won't again for some time(perhaps after moving out of the leap in cat phase?) and flash heal is just too mana costly. She also needs to reglyph and re-do her talents cause they need some tweaking.. power word shield glyph in holy made me cringe.

    She should reforge into haste until she reaches 7.5% just for the extra renew tick then go straight into reforging into mastery and gemming into mastery while keeping his/her haste up at 7.5%

    Ummm look up Potions on the armory, should be the first one that comes up is my priest.

    Also, to anyone who potentially looks up my toon and wonders why I don't spec into spirit of redemption.. I don't die. waste of a talent point for me.

    sorry if its a he.. just looked up his toon and saw it was a chick toon so i just have it in my head that its a chick lol

  6. #6
    The Patient Madam's Avatar
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    Are your tank deaths due to lack of heals or phase changing and not moving fast enough?

    Sure, the Holy Priest could use better spell selection, as a priest yourself bet you could help with that, but not sure I would be blaming all this on the Hpriest, log shows bigger issues than just healing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potions View Post
    She should reforge into haste until she reaches 7.5% just for the extra renew tick then go straight into reforging into mastery and gemming into mastery while keeping his/her haste up at 7.5% l

    While I agree that reforging into haste is a good idea, it would be to boost throughput on the AoE heals, not to reach a renew threshold that is rarely of practical use anyway. Personally I always found haste far more valuable in ten man than 25 man, on average. That said, certain fights favour different things. Majordomo (scorpion phase) is at least to me a fight that strongly favours haste as Holy since the AoE portions requires you to top of people fast, and efficiency doesn't really come into it at all.

    For Disc I'd argue the opposite for AoE healing: mastery for Divine Aegis can help a lot here.

  8. #8
    1) Posting a WoL with real names is a bit dodgy, next time upload an anonymous log and use that
    2) While Domo 10N can be done with 2 healers, they need to know what they are doing
    3) Position on the healing meter is much less informative than the death count. You look at who died first and why.


    ex/

    Your best attempt (#2) had the warrior tank die. And over the course of 5 seconds he got zero direct heals. There were some residual HoT ticks (PoH, EoL, and WG), but nothing direct...not even a PoH hit. That's a fail on all your parts. Finger pointing at the lowest person on the meter doesn't explain why this happened.

    It looks to me that yall are not at all sticking to your healing assignments and far too concerned with the meter.



    And while the Holy priest could use some advise on how to AoE heal better, it's not his fault. Even if he did zero healing, the other two healers have plenty of wiggle room to pick up any "slack". Sort your assignments, and learn to read the Death meter.

  9. #9
    [email protected]hnumbers

    you go on the tank, 100% and then see how he does on raid.
    and tell your entire dps lineup to learn to play, really...

    User received an infraction for spec trolling and non-constructive posting ~ Ultima
    Last edited by Ultima; 2011-10-14 at 07:55 PM.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Grizzlehorn's Avatar
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    Your Holy Priest needs to learn spell selection above all else. I see on your first wipe his highest healing spell was HW: Sanctuary with PoH and CoH at 6th and 7th on the list.

    Your group has problems beyond that. The Holy Priest isn't showing up far behind your Druid, even with very poor spell selection. Your Druid has a ten item level lead on the Holy Priest and isn't far ahead. I see a serious issue with that.

    Three healing normal Domo doesn't require a ton of dedicated tank healing.

    In Scorpion Phase: With Disc Rapture bubbles, Lifebloom rolling, PoM's bouncing (from two Priests in your situation); the AoE hitting hitting your tank should keep them in the safe zone. If not throwing a direct heal here and there will be a win.

    In Cat Phase: You have three healers with little healing to do, as long as your people are half way competent when it comes to dodging leaps. This is a regen phase if you guys are doing high slashes and burning tons of mana on Scorpion Phase.

    Personally, it seems like you are trying to place blame. The logs you have shown make it look like people aren't moving properly, or your healing team is dropping the ball. If you guys are losing people to lack of healing with 3 healers, what makes you think that you are going to magically 2 heal it. The Holy Priest needs to work on spell selection, but you can't place all of the blame on him. You have more than enough throughput to easy 2 or 3 heal this fight, but you guys are missing something if you are losing people to scythes (especially the tank).

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-14 at 11:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Damosapien View Post
    [email protected]hnumbers

    you go on the tank, 100% and then see how he does on raid.
    and tell your entire dps lineup to learn to play, really...
    Three healing normal mode Majordomo does not require a dedicated tank healer.
    Last edited by Grizzlehorn; 2011-10-14 at 04:31 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlehorn View Post

    Three healing normal mode Majordomo does not require a dedicated tank healer.
    three healing in general is not required... so that argument doesnt work, also if you actually look at the logs, you see the tank wasnt healed for nearly 10 seconds.
    so yes a tank healer is required FOR THAT GROUP OF PLAYERS.
    of course players with even an ounce of skill do not require assignments...

  12. #12
    No I know there were a lot of other issues last night, mainly new tank ( new to FL ) and uncordinated dps who liked standing in fire/running from scorpion early and late. The thing is, on this fight, the Hpriest should be doing a lot better than he is, and I want to help him. If I pushed it with the Raid leader I could have him dumped for another dps, but I would not want to do that to him without giving him a solid chance to fix himself. I am much more forgiveing to a medocur player with a good attitude than a elitist min/maxer with a bad one.

    Edit: Also this is a trial run for new guildies, I dont really care that we didnt down the boss (this time). We have had consitant poor peformance from the Holy priest so Im looking to help him out and the raid. My only concern is with the heals, Im not the raid lead, Im just the heals lead. Sorry for posting logs with real names, not sure how to do anonomus ones.
    Last edited by Aspp; 2011-10-14 at 05:40 PM.
    I dont know how to do the fancy html shit, so just look up Aspp, Aspper, Maal, or Prix on Winterhoof.

  13. #13
    The Patient Madam's Avatar
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    Those who stand in glass houses should not throw stones...

    /thread

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    Last edited by Ultima; 2011-10-14 at 07:59 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlehorn View Post
    Three healing normal mode Majordomo does not require a dedicated tank healer.
    If and when everyone's health gets low, which happens during late Scorpion phases, it's critical that three healers don't all just raid heal and someone is hitting the tank with something. "Assignments" aren't exclusive roles, there is always cross healing. Role assignments are to make sure everyone gets hit with a needed heal when the shit hits the fan. A good healer squad, who works together, most certainly doesn't need assignments b/c they work together long enough to *know* what their fellow healers are doing. But if they are clearly not working with each other and sure of each other, defined roles are imperative to no deaths.

    Typically on progression fights, a stray DPS dies and that cascades a wipe. If your tank is face planting there is a serious issue with assignments.


    And yes, the holy priest could use some "Hey this isn't WotLK" advise, but that's not what's causing the wipes.

  15. #15
    Field Marshal Grizzlehorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspp View Post
    We have had consitant poor peformance from the Holy priest so Im looking to help him out and the raid. My only concern is with the heals, Im not the raid lead, Im just the heals lead. Sorry for posting logs with real names, not sure how to do anonomus ones.
    Spell selection, and probably a lack of general understanding of Priest healing, is your Holy's problem. Domo is a Priest's dream as far as PoH is concerned, few fights give you an opportunity to heal party wide AoE damage that guarantees that all 5 targets will fully benefit from your PoH cast. Domo is actually a good fight to work on Chakra swapping I guess, so maybe you could suggest something to him like this:

    Scorpion Phase: Stay in AoE Chakra. Utilize CoH on CD, PoM on CD, fill with PoH. It is acceptable to throw a Flash Heal here an there on very low (i.e. the player that's about to die) targets since you will use the Serendipity stacks on your PoH filler. Obviously don't go balls out healing like mad when people are full, but later slashes you'll be spamming.

    Cat Phase: Swap to Chakra Serenity. Roll Renew on the tank with HW: Serenity and direct heals. With three healers you can easily keep the tank up spamming regular Heal and keeping Renew rolling. This is your regen phase. You want to go back into Scorpion with as much mana as possible. This method of healing should be mana positive at any FL gear level.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Your Holy needs to understand that their AoE heals (PoH, CoH, and PoM) offer the best HPS/HPM that he's going to get as a Holy Priest, so they should be using them as much as possible. I'd offer this advice, but you shouldn't have to teach them their class.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-14 at 01:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    If and when everyone's health gets low, which happens during late Scorpion phases, it's critical that three healers don't all just raid heal and someone is hitting the tank with something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlehorn View Post
    Three healing normal Domo doesn't require a ton of dedicated tank healing.

    In Scorpion Phase: With Disc Rapture bubbles, Lifebloom rolling, PoM's bouncing (from two Priests in your situation); the AoE hitting hitting your tank should keep them in the safe zone. If not throwing a direct heal here and there will be a win.
    I'm seriously not trying to troll, but offer constructive advice. My post suggests plenty of "something" on the tank. That being said, there is nothing wrong with assigning someone to watch the tank, it is simply unnecessary.
    Last edited by Grizzlehorn; 2011-10-14 at 06:10 PM.

  16. #16
    Grunt Potions's Avatar
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    Theres not much else left to say on this tbh, Grizzlehorn pretty much said it all but he SERIOUSLY needs to figure out how holy works cause reading the log its a mess. Switching his prime and major glyphs will seriously benefit him aswell i.e. switch powerword shield with lightwell/guardian spirit, get CoH, PoM, i use the dispel magic glyph for my 3rd, and maybe look at respeccing as well.

  17. #17
    Binding Heal and Greater Heal have a very strong representation in 10N man Domo, especially if the others are raid healing as well.

    And chakra swapping isn't necessary for cat phase. It's extremely minimal incoming damage, the people getting hit the most are the ones that are slow running out of a cat leap. For the most part it's a chance to take a regen break or pop a hymn of hope / fiend, or even take a conc pot if mana is a real issue.


    I'm seriously not trying to troll, but offer constructive advice. My post suggests plenty of "something" on the tank. That being said, there is nothing wrong with assigning someone to watch the tank, it is simply unnecessary.
    While I mostly agree with you (especially with what the holy priest is doing wrong), the moment a tank is dying you talk about *that* and make sure someone is healing the tank so it doesn't happen again. Which is technically an assignment. Tank deaths are a big no-no. The healers need to be on the same page and forget about the position on the healing meter and focus more on death meters.

    Did the person who die b/c of their own stupidity or lack of heals?
    Which healer was responsible?
    And the most important question, is a change necessary to fix this issue or is it a fluke problem that you shouldn't worry about?

    Healing isn't DPS, HPS and Total healing ride bitch to cause of deaths.

  18. #18
    High Overlord Aamu's Avatar
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    I have the same set for healers in my raids.

    Me beign the holy priest. The disco priest and druid are always kinda focusing more on the tank than me, druid has hots on the tank whos tanking and disco keeping closer eye. and in my opinion with the setup we have, thats how it should be. I am ofc helping if needed, but since holy is pretty crap atm (or as I see it, compared to the druids aoe heals and so.. ) I dont really think I should be in charge of something so important as the tank healing job is. I do the minor thing, and keep the mindless dumass dps people alive ; )

    also as said before in the topic, this holy priest needs to learn what spells to use.

    Ive seen healers like him/her? who refuses to listen to advices. Hope this guys is not like that.
    But the next guestion is, are you reasoning him the right way?

    I attend to talk to my fellow healers if stuff are going wrong, and were always trying to find a solution how to do better. together.
    Healing team has to work, as a team : ) If it doesnt. Well. Whole raid suffers.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aamu View Post
    I am ofc helping if needed, but since holy is pretty crap atm (or as I see it, compared to the druids aoe heals and so.. )
    A holy priest can tank heal just fine in the current content since the nerfs.

  20. #20
    High Overlord Aamu's Avatar
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    yes sure.
    but why on earth would you make the holy priest heal the tank, when you can have disco on the job?
    I love you like a love song

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